Author Topic: BTC to BitBTC  (Read 1602 times)

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Offline 21xhipster

BTC to BitBTC
« on: March 23, 2016, 12:17:35 am »
Recently I have a talk with [member=37127]JonnyBitcoin[/member] and he recommended us to issue tokens of this fund https://cyber.fund/@satoshi_fund on BitShares.

We considering now creation of kinda ETF (floating capital so you can enter and redeem any time, but tradable) using assets under our management (that is about $200k if we merge all of them in one big).

We've done a lot of customer development and understand that for kind of clients we are working with (we have already queue of investors who wait than we will be able to start the thing)  simplicity is what really matter. This guys are scary from Bitcoin. We need to education them using it. And if they hear that they need to use one more currency in order to buy our product they stuck.

We want to build all processes based on bitcoin valuation as well as enter/exit operations. To be honest tradability is not the most important thing for us as well as for clients (all this guys think 24 months+). But we understand that this could be a really cool option. So now based on our requirements we can use Bitcoin colored protocols (Counterparty, Omni, Open Assets, Colored Coins) or BitShares or Ethereum. I've had really hot discussion with my partners which one we should to use. We clearly understand limitations of Bitcoin. Ethereum is two early and we want now. As result we decide to test BitShares in one specific use case. What if we explain BitShares Wallet (which can be hosted on our site) as exchange and not a currency. We decide to check how things can work. As result I was wondering that now there is only two options for us:
- Deposit BTC into BTS which can be cheap but not convenient neither for us, neither for investors as we should create market in BTS.
- Deposit in IOUs (Meta or Open) which is 2-3% instant cut and one more step for our clients which need to be additionally explained.

Both are not acceptable for us.
Is there any ideas how we can fix that for our needs?
What we need is possibility to deposit bitcoins into BitBTC with not more than 0.1%-0.2% cut as we aim to attract investments in terms of millions not thousands in one-two year horizon.

Update: Typofix
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 06:31:04 am by 21xhipster »
https://cyber.fund/ - Decetnralized Investment Platform

Offline JonnyB

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2016, 01:17:22 am »
hey!

OPEN.BTC and METAEX.BTC charge 0.3% not 3% but that is still alot just to deposit.

BITBTC is not liquid enough to provide a low fee bridge right now either.

What would be best for you would be have your own exchange and issue your own UIA for example CYBER.BTC

you could charge 0%
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Offline yvv

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2016, 01:31:21 am »
Issue your own IOU, prove that it is trust worthy.

Offline 21xhipster

Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 06:21:07 am »
What would be best for you would be have your own exchange and issue your own UIA for example CYBER.BTC
you could charge 0%

Issue your own IOU, prove that it is trust worthy.
In order to do this we need:
- Deliver deposit/withdrawal integration into the client
- Cut part of our AUM to provide liquidity to this IOU
These are not things we want to focus right now.

https://cyber.fund/ - Decetnralized Investment Platform

Offline 21xhipster

Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 06:27:00 am »

OPEN.BTC and METAEX.BTC charge 0.3% not 3% but that is still alot just to deposit.


I mean full path from BTC to BitBTC. If we assume that we use Open.BTC/Metaex.BTC directly that mean that we should stuck with IOU provider with very limited liquidity. That is not actually a good thing for our product.


BITBTC is not liquid enough to provide a low fee bridge right now either.

Seems that this kinda chicken and egg problem. How do you think how much time it needs for emergence of a good BTC/BitBTC liquidity? What should happens?
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Offline JonnyB

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 07:10:56 am »

OPEN.BTC and METAEX.BTC charge 0.3% not 3% but that is still alot just to deposit.


I mean full path from BTC to BitBTC. If we assume that we use Open.BTC/Metaex.BTC directly that mean that we should stuck with IOU provider with very limited liquidity. That is not actually a good thing for our product.

METAEX.BTC or OPEN.BTC if you restrict your traders to just one of these the there will be plenty of liquidity as it will be the only btc trading against it.

BITBTC will not be a low cost option for a long time.
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Offline liondani

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 07:38:49 am »
I think a "blockchain worker proposal" to give X amount* of bitBTC liquidity each day to the DEX market would have a great possibility to get up-voted...

....and solve problems for project's like yours




PS  Number 1 priority must be the liquidity boost of smartcoins on the DEX

Offline liondani

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2016, 07:42:18 am »
If we assume that we use Open.BTC/Metaex.BTC directly that mean that we should stuck with IOU provider with very limited liquidity. That is not actually a good thing for our product.

 +5%

We must find ways to increase smartcoins liquidity (with priority to bitBTC)....  what about the bond market? When will it be ready?

Offline JonnyB

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2016, 08:13:50 am »
If we assume that we use Open.BTC/Metaex.BTC directly that mean that we should stuck with IOU provider with very limited liquidity. That is not actually a good thing for our product.

 +5%

We must find ways to increase smartcoins liquidity (with priority to bitBTC)....  what about the bond market? When will it be ready?

BITBTC is never gonna work for people wanting to deposit bitcoin. we need sidechains for cryptocoins. bitassets only make sense for not digital assets like fiat and gold.
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Offline Samupaha

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2016, 08:49:38 am »
If I'm understanding this correctly, UIA is the way to go. Actually, the only way. If you want to issue tradable ETF-share, then there is not much other alternatives.

In Bitshares exchange there is no limit what assets or currencies you can use to buy another asset (unless asset issuer has made some limitations). There is also fiat-gateway, so you clients can use a normal bank transfer to get OPEN.USD or OPEN.EUR and then buy your ETF-UIA with those.

Simplest way for the customer would be that you'd handle transactions manually. Customer sends an email: "Hi, I wanna buy x amount of your ETF" and they will pay to you with bitcoins or fiat-transfer or whatever, and when you have recieved the payment, you transfer the ETF-token to the customer's account. All trades don't need to happen in the exchange.

I think you want to make sure that there will be liquid BTC/ETF market? Isn't that why you ask about BitBTC? I'm not sure if this is really necessary. You can always calculate the true value based on what the ETF contains, you don't need a direct and liquid market pair for that. And also, if most of your customers are not interested in anyway for trading, the need for liquid market is even less. It is true that it will be cool if ETF like this is tradable, but I don't think that it's really necessary to make sure that it's traded with BTC. Just let people trade it freely with any asset, it will be even better. Maybe some other market pair will become very liquid and active.

Offline Erlich Bachman

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2016, 08:53:03 am »
John's right, only hardcores like us can appreciate bitBTC, and by the time we do, we don't  want our value in BTC or pegged to its value.

bitUSD, bitGOLD is the franchise

use sidechains for BTC and you will draw new users
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Offline abit

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2016, 08:56:51 am »
Or wait for SIDE.BTC
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Offline abit

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2016, 09:03:23 am »
If I'm understanding this correctly, UIA is the way to go. Actually, the only way. If you want to issue tradable ETF-share, then there is not much other alternatives.

In Bitshares exchange there is no limit what assets or currencies you can use to buy another asset (unless asset issuer has made some limitations). There is also fiat-gateway, so you clients can use a normal bank transfer to get OPEN.USD or OPEN.EUR and then buy your ETF-UIA with those.

Simplest way for the customer would be that you'd handle transactions manually. Customer sends an email: "Hi, I wanna buy x amount of your ETF" and they will pay to you with bitcoins or fiat-transfer or whatever, and when you have recieved the payment, you transfer the ETF-token to the customer's account. All trades don't need to happen in the exchange.

I think you want to make sure that there will be liquid BTC/ETF market? Isn't that why you ask about BitBTC? I'm not sure if this is really necessary. You can always calculate the true value based on what the ETF contains, you don't need a direct and liquid market pair for that. And also, if most of your customers are not interested in anyway for trading, the need for liquid market is even less. It is true that it will be cool if ETF like this is tradable, but I don't think that it's really necessary to make sure that it's traded with BTC. Just let people trade it freely with any asset, it will be even better. Maybe some other market pair will become very liquid and active.
Good points.. begin with manually, when you find it's too much work, deploy a deposit/withdraw page. MetaExchange already provided such feature, I remember it's open source!

Also this is a good option:
I would also recommend to open and make the markets against TRADE.BTC, OPEN.BTC or METAEX.BTC .. (pick one .. not all)
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Offline abit

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2016, 09:12:40 am »
What would be best for you would be have your own exchange and issue your own UIA for example CYBER.BTC
you could charge 0%

Issue your own IOU, prove that it is trust worthy.
In order to do this we need:
- Deliver deposit/withdrawal integration into the client
- Cut part of our AUM to provide liquidity to this IOU
These are not things we want to focus right now.
How can you guarantee liquidity if you don't put some of funds to the market? Even if you just provide in/out service, let the market itself provides liquidity, the "out" service itself is providing liquidity using some of your funds already.

If you focus on one market, you don't need to care about other markets at all: when you receive real BTC, issue your IOU btc to user; when you receive IOU btc, burn them and send real BTC to user.
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Offline dannotestein

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Re: BTC to BitBTC
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2016, 07:58:41 pm »
hey!

OPEN.BTC and METAEX.BTC charge 0.3% not 3% but that is still alot just to deposit.

BITBTC is not liquid enough to provide a low fee bridge right now either.

What would be best for you would be have your own exchange and issue your own UIA for example CYBER.BTC

you could charge 0%
Actually there's no deposit/withdrawal percentage fees on the "crypto" OPEN assets such as OPEN.BTC, OPEN.ETH, etc. The only deposit/withdrawal fee is an extremely small fixed price fee to pay for the transaction itself. OpenLedger only profits from market trades done with the assets.
http://blocktrades.us Fast/Safe/High-Liquidity Crypto Coin Converter