Author Topic: Yunbi started voting against all workers except refund/burn workers  (Read 71297 times)

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Offline liondani

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Dilution is in big part coming from the merger and nothing can be done about it, just wait until november.

I think we don't need to wait until November.... and nothing should be done either.... Why?....because dilution is already priced in on BTS !!!
so I really think BTS will increase very soon.... and SHARPLY !!! 

PS don't forget that very often the market behaves in the opposite direction of what the most  believe... that was about the "rule" for BTS after all...   ::)

Offline yvv

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I've already know one guy who brought BTS sold a lot and getting it back by worker dilution .

And who is the guy?

Offline btswildpig

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The cryptocurrencies world is evolving very fast.
BM don't dilute anything, we vote for CNX to develop furthermore BTS.
Without that, we will be obsolete in 6 month or a year.
Thanks to that we are leading the crypto technology scene with a great tech.
The market is finally responding and we are finally having an uptrend chart this year.
Dilution is in big part coming from the merger and nothing can be done about it, just wait until november.

It seems that we are finally starting to go well !

The china move is "let's stop all development so we will go even better !" Come on guys, this is not realistic !

Why not coming with a proper solution, a realistic one. Because stopping every thing and cross the fingers is not a smart move.

That's probably why there is so much heavy reactions about it. Guys, provide a better solution or follow the one in place because destroying a working system without any idea of how to replace it is not smart at all.


PD :
*****
I have this unpleasant theory ... everytime bts goes up, chinese whales dumb heavy even if bts prices are ridiculous compare to what we can expect (just look at what ETH did in six weeks). That looks like they loose hope in BTS. So, would it be impossible that they intentionally want to stop dilution to have bts goes up quickly (short terme) so they can dumb everything at higer price and be out for good ???

Maybe it's just the product of a paranoid mind always trying to find the worst case scenario ...


Look at who is dumping at whatever price and keep diluting at whatever price to make more dump .

 :-[
I'm not sure to get it ... the devs ?

I was speaking about chinese whale dumping at low prices after loosing hope for BTS. The devs have to sell the BTS they earn, at least part of it, to pay for the basic life costs.

Maybe the Chinese whales just want to sell all the BTS they have to unload the financial risk and then find some way(Cheap Chinese developers) to develop features for BTS for worker proposal and get the BTS they've sold back without committing much financial risk like the ordinary investors while still enjoy the chance if BTS goes up in the future .

If I'm a whale , under the current system , this is the most reasonable way for me to do . '

I've already know one guy who brought BTS sold a lot and getting it back by worker dilution . Hmm , funny how the system works out in the end .

By enabling programmer oriented dilution , it turns whales into developers .
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 12:47:45 pm by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline EstefanTT

The cryptocurrencies world is evolving very fast.
BM don't dilute anything, we vote for CNX to develop furthermore BTS.
Without that, we will be obsolete in 6 month or a year.
Thanks to that we are leading the crypto technology scene with a great tech.
The market is finally responding and we are finally having an uptrend chart this year.
Dilution is in big part coming from the merger and nothing can be done about it, just wait until november.

It seems that we are finally starting to go well !

The china move is "let's stop all development so we will go even better !" Come on guys, this is not realistic !

Why not coming with a proper solution, a realistic one. Because stopping every thing and cross the fingers is not a smart move.

That's probably why there is so much heavy reactions about it. Guys, provide a better solution or follow the one in place because destroying a working system without any idea of how to replace it is not smart at all.


PD :
*****
I have this unpleasant theory ... everytime bts goes up, chinese whales dumb heavy even if bts prices are ridiculous compare to what we can expect (just look at what ETH did in six weeks). That looks like they loose hope in BTS. So, would it be impossible that they intentionally want to stop dilution to have bts goes up quickly (short terme) so they can dumb everything at higer price and be out for good ???

Maybe it's just the product of a paranoid mind always trying to find the worst case scenario ...


Look at who is dumping at whatever price and keep diluting at whatever price to make more dump .

 :-[
I'm not sure to get it ... the devs ?

I was speaking about chinese whale dumping at low prices after loosing hope for BTS. The devs have to sell the BTS they earn, at least part of it, to pay for the basic life costs.
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Offline btswildpig

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The cryptocurrencies world is evolving very fast.
BM don't dilute anything, we vote for CNX to develop furthermore BTS.
Without that, we will be obsolete in 6 month or a year.
Thanks to that we are leading the crypto technology scene with a great tech.
The market is finally responding and we are finally having an uptrend chart this year.
Dilution is in big part coming from the merger and nothing can be done about it, just wait until november.

It seems that we are finally starting to go well !

The china move is "let's stop all development so we will go even better !" Come on guys, this is not realistic !

Why not coming with a proper solution, a realistic one. Because stopping every thing and cross the fingers is not a smart move.

That's probably why there is so much heavy reactions about it. Guys, provide a better solution or follow the one in place because destroying a working system without any idea of how to replace it is not smart at all.


PD :
*****
I have this unpleasant theory ... everytime bts goes up, chinese whales dumb heavy even if bts prices are ridiculous compare to what we can expect (just look at what ETH did in six weeks). That looks like they loose hope in BTS. So, would it be impossible that they intentionally want to stop dilution to have bts goes up quickly (short terme) so they can dumb everything at higer price and be out for good ???

Maybe it's just the product of a paranoid mind always trying to find the worst case scenario ...


Look at who is dumping at whatever price and keep diluting at whatever price to make more dump .

 :-[ 
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline EstefanTT

The cryptocurrencies world is evolving very fast.
BM don't dilute anything, we vote for CNX to develop furthermore BTS.
Without that, we will be obsolete in 6 month or a year.
Thanks to that we are leading the crypto technology scene with a great tech.
The market is finally responding and we are finally having an uptrend chart this year.
Dilution is in big part coming from the merger and nothing can be done about it, just wait until november.

It seems that we are finally starting to go well !

The china move is "let's stop all development so we will go even better !" Come on guys, this is not realistic !

Why not coming with a proper solution, a realistic one. Because stopping every thing and cross the fingers is not a smart move.

That's probably why there is so much heavy reactions about it. Guys, provide a better solution or follow the one in place because destroying a working system without any idea of how to replace it is not smart at all.


PD :
*****
I have this unpleasant theory ... everytime bts goes up, chinese whales dumb heavy even if bts prices are ridiculous compare to what we can expect (just look at what ETH did in six weeks). That looks like they loose hope in BTS. So, would it be impossible that they intentionally want to stop dilution to have bts goes up quickly (short terme) so they can dumb everything at higer price and be out for good ???

Maybe it's just the product of a paranoid mind always trying to find the worst case scenario ...
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 10:39:10 am by EstefanTT »
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
(BitShares French ConneXion - www.bitsharesfcx.com)

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

ok, let me clear my point.
If price and popularity is the standard to judge Bitshares success or not, the answer is obvious.
Does someone think about the severe problem? Why people left? BM keep diluting our shares, that is I heard from most people.

below is my opinion to attract people into our community.
1. lower the worker salary
[BSIP10] Percentage-based transfer fee solution based on CER
see this, 3 million for a function, that is too much for me ,for most ChinaShares.  I don't know how you think?

2. set a reward fund
like the wroker  mechanism,  but money come from shareholder who voluntary to give.

3. remove any worker
free developer maybe come. because if they don't contribute for Bitshares, they holded bts will become nothing.
If they work for it for Free. Maybe one day, they will get paid more than they ever paid Worker salary.
that is the motive.


That definitely makes sense, but traditionally such workers are awarded shares in lieu of salary for their work. It is very common for startups to pay workers shares instead of salary since funds are limited, and those that succeed do become rich. Those startups that fail, the workers end up having worked for nothing. They are taking the same risk as early investors and should be compensated for it. But, indeed, there is commonlly a vesting period before they can claim shares and sell them. That would end downward pressure on the market cap.

So to take what you said here and apply it to what @laow thinks would be a good idea would be basically something along the lines of using one of  the following:

1. A BTS fund from donors for development that will give workers shares in lieu of payment for a vesting period of say.. a year?

2. Us the Worker proposal with payment being done in vesting period of 1 year instead of immediate.

My take on these things.

1. If such a fund were possible it would have happened by now. This is along the lines of my position that if there are free workers out there that will do work in bitshares for free they would have done it by now and would have stopped any Worker proposal from happening.

2. I think this might be reasonable if we want to have part time work done and not full time. Obviously people need to eat.

Sooooooooo why not both?

Lets see this 'worker fund from donors' come into existence that is designed specifically to pay for workers 'today' with the promise of them being able to get their investment back 1 year from now. No interest. It is predicated on their shares going up.

The worker doing the work should have a % of their pay be held in vesting just as well so they have an upside to BTS going up also.

It's going to be different from one worker to another. Some are going to be short term while others are ongoing.

The downside to this would be the fund requiring administration.

@laow Would this kind of situation be something that would get anti-dilution voting for workers? Would this fund be something they would be willing to create?

In the end, this would mean workers can work full time on the blockchain, and there would be no more dilution because the only BTS out there is what is already in circulation for at least a year. By then it 'should' be up right?

I am just throwing out ideas.. I don't know what other downsides there might be without putting more thought into it. Like to hear from others first to see if its worth considering.
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Offline freedom

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ok, let me clear my point.
If price and popularity is the standard to judge Bitshares success or not, the answer is obvious.
Does someone think about the severe problem? Why people left? BM keep diluting our shares, that is I heard from most people.

below is my opinion to attract people into our community.
1. lower the worker salary
[BSIP10] Percentage-based transfer fee solution based on CER
see this, 3 million bts for a function, that is too much for me ,for most ChinaShares.  I don't know how you think?

2. set a reward fund
like the wroker  mechanism,  but bts come from shareholder who voluntary to give.

3. remove any worker
free developer maybe come. because if they don't contribute for Bitshares, they holded bts will become nothing.
If they work for it for Free. Maybe one day, they will get paid more than they ever paid Worker salary.
that is the motive.
+5% +5% +5%

Offline onceuponatime

ok, let me clear my point.
If price and popularity is the standard to judge Bitshares success or not, the answer is obvious.
Does someone think about the severe problem? Why people left? BM keep diluting our shares, that is I heard from most people.

below is my opinion to attract people into our community.
1. lower the worker salary
[BSIP10] Percentage-based transfer fee solution based on CER
see this, 3 million for a function, that is too much for me ,for most ChinaShares.  I don't know how you think?

2. set a reward fund
like the wroker  mechanism,  but money come from shareholder who voluntary to give.

3. remove any worker
free developer maybe come. because if they don't contribute for Bitshares, they holded bts will become nothing.
If they work for it for Free. Maybe one day, they will get paid more than they ever paid Worker salary.
that is the motive.


That definitely makes sense, but traditionally such workers are awarded shares in lieu of salary for their work. It is very common for startups to pay workers shares instead of salary since funds are limited, and those that succeed do become rich. Those startups that fail, the workers end up having worked for nothing. They are taking the same risk as early investors and should be compensated for it. But, indeed, there is commonlly a vesting period before they can claim shares and sell them. That would end downward pressure on the market cap.

Offline laow

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ok, let me clear my point.
If price and popularity is the standard to judge Bitshares success or not, the answer is obvious.
Does someone think about the severe problem? Why people left? BM keep diluting our shares, that is I heard from most people.

below is my opinion to attract people into our community.
1. lower the worker salary
[BSIP10] Percentage-based transfer fee solution based on CER
see this, 3 million bts for a function, that is too much for me ,for most ChinaShares.  I don't know how you think?

2. set a reward fund
like the wroker  mechanism,  but bts come from shareholder who voluntary to give.

3. remove any worker
free developer maybe come. because if they don't contribute for Bitshares, they holded bts will become nothing.
If they work for it for Free. Maybe one day, they will get paid more than they ever paid Worker salary.
that is the motive.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 02:40:53 am by laow »
BTS acount: laow

Offline Ben Mason

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@Ben Mason , we all love bts. I am not again the development, but I don't like the Worker Way just as Yunbi.
like you said,  hope one day bitshares true value will reveal itself

Ok, I wish you could already see the value that has been bought with the workers. There is every reason for improving accountability and checking progress. There is so much to be proud of and full of hope for here. I hope we can find a compromise. I don't agree with yunbi's actions because they assumed consent. But I value everyone's efforts who have made BitShares what it is.

All the best Laow.

This is how every round with anti-dilution/workers ends.

One side says we need to develop and this is how it is getting done.

Other side says we need to develop and we don't want Workers doing it.. but we have no idea how to get it done.

As I stated earlier in a tongue and cheek way.. if there really is all this free labour in the wings.. if they step up and get things done, there is absolutely no reason for votes to use the Worker proposal system to fund fixes and updates etc. I highly suspect though that this army of free developers might be part of the anti-reality rally. Thus why we have not seen it.

If there truly was a desire to see bitshares developed without workers.. it could EASILY be done with those that claim they can contribute for free to step up and JUST DO IT!  +5% +5% +5%

It's so obvious.. if it's true.

You've been an absolute rock for BitShares. You constantly strive to put out honest sense. I honestly don't know what I would do without guys like you.

I really hope that the message is gradually getting through and it's worth it to keep trying because we are stronger together. A compromise based on facts can be reached. An awareness campaign that is as apolitical as possible and geared towards positivity and the future would really do us good. A combined status and committed deliverables outline of all things BitShares / Graphene / partners would be brilliant right about now.  I appreciate that is quite a challenge to organise and there are a variety of pressures / constraints that are a reality for several projects.....

chryspano

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Anti-dilutionists and their ideas....

We definetly need a similar graph showing BTS marketcap rising when worker funds are reduced, we need to "educate" those unitiated blasphemer infidels in the one and true anti-dilution religion!



SAVE BITSHARES!!! STOP ALL DEVELOPMENT RIGHT NOW!!!

The Anti-Dilution Religion
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Offline xeroc

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On the other thread xeroc said that inflation primarily goes not through workers but through merger. If so, it is pointless to remove workers, we just need to wait until merger is finished.

That's just about 8 months out isn't it? Nov 5th?
that's the merger date .. yes

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

On the other thread xeroc said that inflation primarily goes not through workers but through merger. If so, it is pointless to remove workers, we just need to wait until merger is finished.

That's just about 8 months out isn't it? Nov 5th?
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Offline yvv

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On the other thread xeroc said that inflation primarily goes not through workers but through merger. If so, it is pointless to remove workers, we just need to wait until merger is finished.