Author Topic: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners  (Read 59855 times)

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Offline puppies

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2016, 02:35:45 am »
Interesting idea.  I've got a box I can mine with. 

One thing I don't get is how the hell do I register accounts?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 02:44:06 am by puppies »
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2016, 02:49:51 am »
ok ....So instead of pre-allocation , you choose to mine quickly for a big portion , is the new smart way to avoid legal issues with pre-allocation like BM mentioned ?

Hmm ...I wonder if it would hold up in court .....
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Offline tonyk

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2016, 03:37:44 am »

We didn't announce this on BitShares earlier because we figured this community would better understand the value of what we are doing and make it
difficult execute the strategy bytemaster recently blogged about:

http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2016/03/27/How-to-Launch-a-Crypto-Currency-Legally-while-Raising-Funds/

We have secured ~80% of the initial STEEM via mining.

So the main innovation is  secretly premining in open view? It is pretty sad where "innovation" effort go in this community as of late.

Thanks, but no thanks... I have experienced a 1,5 years of constant sell pressure by whales that openly quick mined PTS, to have the desire to experience the same by people that found a way to premine, sorry "secure " 80% stake for themselves secretly in open view.


--------------------------
Q: Is there STEALTH in steem's GUI?

At the moment Steem has no GUI and the blockchain doesn't support stealth.

I wanted to make sure Steem didn't compete with BitShares market.  In fact, one of the reasons I was willing to help with Steem was that its feature set is fundamentally incompatible with BitShares and we could not hardfork BitShares to implement what Steem does.

Steem is designed to encourage long-term holders and discourage the dumping that BTS has experienced. It is good for them to have a large stake and not give it away to miners who will dump it.  Now they can give it away strategically to grow Steem.

So does this means that, one the record, you claim this STEEM project is not yours (lead by you etc) BM? * **

Or are you simply claiming the last 7 blog posts of yours were written by someone else?

* I find the POW algo is very innovative (well scientifically proposed, but not tried in real world as far as I know)
** The value of slowing money down is not new idea (actually it is probably the oldest one around) but if I have to bet who will try it first in crypto? It will be you.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 03:44:57 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Riverhead

Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2016, 03:41:09 am »

For those willing to do a little digging this is a pretty cool project. A little digging is required. It's not going to be spoon fed.

Offline emailtooaj

Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2016, 03:58:19 am »
I suppose dusting off my old, old, old proto rig is futile ? 
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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2016, 04:16:36 am »
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Offline puppies

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2016, 05:34:54 am »
This is a rather elaborate April fools day joke if that's what it is.  I'm not getting the joke either way, but I've got a migraine so my sense of humor is suffering.
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Offline arhag

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2016, 09:41:02 am »
Interesting...


The true purpose and scope of Steem will be revealed in a couple of weeks, but for now it is open for everyone to look at the code.

Perhaps something like a decentralized alternative to threaded discussion forums, e.g. Reddit self posts (though limited to STEEMIT_MAX_COMMENT_DEPTH == 6 nested comments, which I guess is a reasonable number),
except with the distinguishing feature of economic rewards for good comments ("What do you mean internet karma points don't have to be worthless?" ;)).
Though perhaps that could backfire as well: redditors take karma too seriously as it is even though it currently provide no economic value whatsoever. But it would be fun to see how economic incentives modify social behavior online.


I look forward to hearing more about this project in the future.




Some additional (long) thoughts on the project:

The SBD (which seems to be a USD pegged asset with a possible interest rate bonus on top) is interesting. There is a DEX on the network with just a single market STEEM/SBD (plus there are subsidies to liquidity providers which is great addition), but yet it seems pretty clear that SBD is not BitUSD/Smartcoins. Specifically, there is no SBD borrow with collateral mechanism available. It is possible to convert SBD to STEEM but the blockchain just destroys the SBD and prints enough new STEEM to satisfy the conversion at an exchange rate (after a 7 day delay) at the given median price feed provided by the witnesses. Thus, I think it is safe to say that all STEEM holders are effectively forced to take the "short position" against the SBD. By holding STEEM they are betting that its price should outperform the USD plus blockchain-declared interest rate. And this is despite all the other inflation of the STEEM supply to pay for block producers (witnesses and occasional PoW miners), the liquidity provider subsidy, the content/curation rewards, and especially to try to keep the vested STEEM balances deflationary. The one upside is that SBD longs cannot just demand to be issued as much SBD as they want, so the STEEM holders' exposure to losing on the STEEM/SBD price change gamble is somewhat limited. It seems SBD are only issued into existence as a reward for comments (and even then only half of the comment reward is in SBD while the other half is provided through VESTS). And the total amount of annual inflated STEEM funds dedicated to comment rewards is limited to 5% of the total STEEM supply (another 5% of the supply goes toward curator, i.e. comment voter, rewards in the form of VESTS).


It seems to me that STEEM holders will be getting diluted like crazy to pay for all of this. But I guess that is what VESTS are for. You give up your ability to quickly dump/transfer STEEM on demand by vesting your STEEM in order to avoid the extreme dilution of your stake while you hold. And in fact your percentage ownership of the total stake should actually increase as long as less than 90% of the total STEEM is being vested in the network (though apparently more than 80% of the current STEEM supply is already vested, so who knows how likely it actually will be that the network will normally be vesting less than 90% of the total STEEM supply).

It seems like an interesting economic experiment.

I think it is particularly interesting that the nature of VESTS (2 years until you can fully withdraw all of your funds) means that it would be foolish for exchanges to try to vest any STEEM deposited by their customers. This means two things:
1) the exchanges would not have the power to vote for witnesses (sinces only VESTS assets have voting power) which is good for network security; and,
2) it is foolish for the buy-and-hold investors to keep all their stake on exchanges in an attempt to avoid the inconveniences of using the client software because that would force them to keep all of their stake in the highly inflationary STEEM asset rather than the more profitable VESTS asset (thus they have an economic incentive to download and use the client, which is a great thing).


It isn't completely clear to me where the revenue for this DAC would come from. All that inflation needs to be paid for somehow in the long term. The obvious answer is that the revenue could come from transaction fees on posting comments. And that could certainly be a viable business model for the DAC if people are willing to pay per post. But nickel-and-diming people per post is a pretty annoying user experience, so it isn't clear if that business plan could actually work in reality. There is potentially an alternative strategy, which may already be what this DAC is aiming for (I don't know for sure, I wasn't able to tell from my brief review of the code). People might be willing to buy STEEM and turn it into VESTS even if it isn't as profitable of an investment as other altcoins, simply to gain access to the services provided by the DAC. The rate-limited free transaction mechanism being added to BitShares could also let this DAC allows users to submit comments and posts for free, but at a limited rate which is proportional to the amount of VESTS they hold in their account. Effectively, users would be paying for the comments/votes through the lower returns on their "investments" compared to the returns they would have gotten had the comment/vote transaction had a transaction fee. This solves the nickel-and-diming user experience problem, but it is still not clear whether users would find the higher costs (even if hidden and implicit) to be justified for the unique features of decentralization and also profiting from karma, or if they would rather prefer sticking with the existing centralized systems that are cheaper/free (or more precisely: paid for by advertising).


Finally, I find the low-profile/vague announcement strategy used by thereverseflash to be both amusing and perfectly rational.
Creating a new mining algorithm only to highly deemphasize it in favor of DPoS only 1 month after launch,
underselling the potential and ambition of this DAC (it is presented as yet-another-simple-alt-coin and not as an attempt to create a decentralized Reddit),
leaving in technical barriers to joining in on the initial mining; it all makes sense when you read this blog post by bytemaster and accept it as the guidebook for launching this DAC.
Now the question is will bytemaster's strategy work, or will it cause the Bitcoin community to treat this DAC like a pariah and stubbornly refuse to use it while yelling out words like "instamine." I can't wait to find out.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 11:16:36 am by arhag »

Offline tonyk

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2016, 10:55:39 am »
"Finally, I find low-profile/vague announcement strategy used by thereverseflash to be both amusing and perfectly rational. "

me too... well at least on the amusing part...


but then again who is  arhag? ....kidding...


"Now the question is will bytemaster's strategy work, or will it cause the Bitcoin community to treat this DAC like a pariah and stubbornly refuse to use it while yelling out words like "instamine." I can't wait to find out."
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 10:59:13 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2016, 11:07:09 am »
http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2016/03/27/How-to-Launch-a-Crypto-Currency-Legally-while-Raising-Funds/

Quote
Perhaps the Bitcoin Communities cultural regulations are a blessing in disguise. By intentionally violating every one of their expectations you can minimize your token’s value at launch while still legally mining a token for minimal cost.

Unfortunately this is true but not only at launch but for the lifetime of the token. 

While possibly done as  a legal workaround, a coin which violates most of those expectations is unlikely to ever gain serious traction/adoption from a decentralized community.

That's not to say they're not worth buying now depending on the current valuation because it could receive a large bump when more is revealed but after that you could be fighting against gravity/expending too much effort trying to build on that foundation. (You'll also be giving away 40% of the amount mined so far which I believe is very price suppressive too.)

If it is a genuinely innovative and valuable blockchain it seems like an unnecessarily risky strategy & a fork of the same concept launched differently would presumably be much more valuable.

Interesting...
Some additional (long) thoughts on the project:...

It does sound interesting.

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Offline Akado

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2016, 12:18:13 pm »
We have secured ~80% of the initial STEEM via mining.  Our plan is to keep 20%, sell 20% to raise money, and give away 40% to attract users / referrers.

One would think that is instamining as well as ICO, exactly the opposite of the announced on Bitcointalk
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Offline ebit

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2016, 02:01:57 pm »
[member=42184]thereverseflash[/member]  I created a node : "122.114.47.242"

But I haven't a private key ,so I can't create a account.privete key is bitcoin's  :D

I got a publick key :STM5p78kHbL33Rn3JWkTWRE2B9uz6gy4r1KbfAKLNQGE3ovMBS5bu

Any one give me some coins?

I don't known how to create my first account

 ./steemd --miner='["accountname","${WIFPRIVATEKEY}"]' --witness='"accountname"'
get_account mottler
create_account_with_private_key
create_account( string creator, string new_account_name, string json_meta, bool broadcast )

« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 04:04:43 pm by ebit »
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Offline bytemaster

Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2016, 03:41:11 pm »
We have secured ~80% of the initial STEEM via mining.  Our plan is to keep 20%, sell 20% to raise money, and give away 40% to attract users / referrers.

One would think that is instamining as well as ICO, exactly the opposite of the announced on Bitcointalk

Definitions:

pre-mine: mining tokens without publicly announcing the network or pre-allocate tokens
ico: directly selling pre-mined coins, often selling coins before the network exists
instamine: having the majority of tokens mined in the first day

People like to get loose with definitions of words (like scam) but also the above words are thrown out.

pre-mine: implies "pre-*SOMETHING* mine", the question is what is *SOMETHING*?   I take it to mean "before public announcement" which
is the only objective measure.  There are degrees of public announcement,  but announcing on BItcointalk in the announcement section seems like it was announced where people look for such announcements and not someplace where people are not looking.

ico: reselling a mined coin is not an ICO any more than reselling a new car after driving it off the lot is considered selling a new car.

instamine: the vast majority of tokens within STEEM will be created in the future.   The introduction of vesting makes it harder to directly compare to other coins. They did lock up a 56.3% stake in the network that is more or less protected from dilution.  On the other hand, to lock up that STEEM means they cannot sell most of it for years.

Then factor in their intent to give away much of what they did mine, and it can be interpreted as a move to make sure that new users can get into STEEM long into the future.  Giving it away to new users does not create sell pressure if they give the new users VESTS.   

The conclusion I gather from this is that STEEM will end up in the hands of more people by having Steemit, Inc distribute VESTS to unique users than it would have ended up in if only miners and botnets could mine. 

So how much has Steemit, Inc acquired:

2,998,914.000  STEEM Supply
2,417,426.000  VESTING STEEM  (80.6%)

373,870.665560 VESTS Supply
261,585.400566 VESTS held by account steemit (69.9%)

STEEM held by steemit   .699 * .806 => 56.3%







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Offline bytemaster

Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2016, 06:07:30 pm »
[member=42184]thereverseflash[/member]  I created a node : "122.114.47.242"

But I haven't a private key ,so I can't create a account.privete key is bitcoin's  :D

I got a publick key :STM5p78kHbL33Rn3JWkTWRE2B9uz6gy4r1KbfAKLNQGE3ovMBS5bu

Any one give me some coins?

I don't known how to create my first account

 ./steemd --miner='["accountname","${WIFPRIVATEKEY}"]' --witness='"accountname"'
get_account mottler
create_account_with_private_key
create_account( string creator, string new_account_name, string json_meta, bool broadcast )


You just mine it.  No need for faucet or coins.  No ability to send to address.
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2016, 09:08:58 pm »
BTS holders are still paying off the merger, the intent of which was to prevent the fracturing of development effort/code/chains/community.

Yet this fork receives official blessing and assistance.

It must be April Fools.