Author Topic: Anyone remember these prices?  (Read 7988 times)

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Offline prophetx

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2014, 12:05:31 pm »
We actually didn't dilute PTS holders but gave them a significant increase in value.   PTS use to represent 10% of BTS supply, now it represents 50%.      BTS use to have mining and pay 50% dividends to miners, now it pays 100% dividends to shareholders.  So in effect we doubled the value proposition through this change alone.

Prior to AGS we would have lacked the funding necessary to make PTS truly valuable.  Now we are on a roadmap to really make a difference very rapidly.

weird, i had no idea.  i've never even moved any of my pts and still mine a little bit each day on a laptop so I am glad to hear this.

I spend most of my time working on the mastercoin project but i do keep tabs on what is going on and have been somewhat surprised at the volatility of stuff like NXT. 

Offline prophetx

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2014, 11:28:26 am »
Holding onto my PTS and put BTC in AGS. Feel a bit stupid not to have diluted PTS earlier to get more BTC and hence for AGS now.

PTS could get more value if the AGS donations are not used for BitsharesX generation, which means more BitsharesX/ PTS. Also, I wonder if its possible to leave out exchange wallets when generating the genesis block. They don't give any discount in trading or withdrawl fees (Bter actually has a 0.1 PTS withdrawl fee) and so no reason they should benefit.

If the exchange and AGS wallets are left out that means there is a huge boost to PTS immediately.

This is an interesting concept, but unless someone can get the exchange to voluntarily reveal all of their public keys (with proof) and give up their rights to BTS then I cannot take any such action.

hence the issue with centralized exchanges.

the second you have a working DEx, and announce a DAC dividend or whatever award, people will realize they shouldn't keep money on exchanges.  and to those who don't, as long as you give 30 days notice... well too bad so sad...

Offline bytemaster

Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2014, 03:59:07 pm »
Holding onto my PTS and put BTC in AGS. Feel a bit stupid not to have diluted PTS earlier to get more BTC and hence for AGS now.

PTS could get more value if the AGS donations are not used for BitsharesX generation, which means more BitsharesX/ PTS. Also, I wonder if its possible to leave out exchange wallets when generating the genesis block. They don't give any discount in trading or withdrawl fees (Bter actually has a 0.1 PTS withdrawl fee) and so no reason they should benefit.

If the exchange and AGS wallets are left out that means there is a huge boost to PTS immediately.

This is an interesting concept, but unless someone can get the exchange to voluntarily reveal all of their public keys (with proof) and give up their rights to BTS then I cannot take any such action. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

sumantso

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2014, 10:28:55 am »
Holding onto my PTS and put BTC in AGS. Feel a bit stupid not to have diluted PTS earlier to get more BTC and hence for AGS now.

PTS could get more value if the AGS donations are not used for BitsharesX generation, which means more BitsharesX/ PTS. Also, I wonder if its possible to leave out exchange wallets when generating the genesis block. They don't give any discount in trading or withdrawl fees (Bter actually has a 0.1 PTS withdrawl fee) and so no reason they should benefit.

If the exchange and AGS wallets are left out that means there is a huge boost to PTS immediately.

Offline 5chdn

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2014, 09:38:00 am »
Am I missing something? Are we not basically at those prices yet again? We are at .013btc/pts on Cryptsy. And who's surprised?
Yes, you missed the age of this thread.

Offline Stan

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2014, 07:10:47 am »
Would be nice to have bought a bit more back then!



i wasn't around at the time but those prices are awesome !

Am I missing something? Are we not basically at those prices yet again? We are at .013btc/pts on Cryptsy. And who's surprised?

Invictus diluted the value by changing what each PTS was worth in regards to future DACs. What most people understood to be a ~1:1 share in bitshares and other DACs changed in the past month to 10% of that. New social contract. Why shouldn't the value per PTS dilute to 10% of what it was when the stipulations on its use changed as well? The latest post in the thread, "Intrinsic value of Protoshares" is literally "this is no longer relevant and needs to be updated." Why? The intrinsic value has changed.

And AGS? For being against a central monetary authority, Invictus is sure acting like one. They have essentially pegged the value of PTS to AGS, and are diluting the value of PTS in favor of AGS. One PTS gets more than 1 AGS, but most people consider their intrinsic value (basically) to be equal. Why hold PTS when you can sell off into AGS? A rational market will continue to dilute PTS until the value of 1 PTS = 1 AGS. Unfortunately, until 50% of PTS are sold into AGS, the dilution will not stop. (!)

These poor choices are really burning a lot of the early adopters and enthusiastic supporters of PTS/bitshares. You can't expect the value to stay stable when you dilute it through changes in the social contract and artificially pegging it to another currency.

I may have been off with some of the details regarding 1:1 PTS:DACs, etc. I can't keep track with how often I feel these keep changing (or, I mean, being clarified). But I believe the merit of this post remains true. I think a rational person would leave PTS now. Even if that meant going into AGS - anything but PTS - because trust is lost and the valuation is corrupted.  I write this humbly with hope for a response. I don't want to sell my holdings.

It is our plan to send the value of PTS to the moon. 
To do that we needed a bigger booster rocket. 
AGS is that booster rocket.


With AGS we are building an entire industry to give value to PTS.
(And PTS holders get ownership in that entire industry.)

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2014, 05:52:23 am »
We actually didn't dilute PTS holders but gave them a significant increase in value.   PTS use to represent 10% of BTS supply, now it represents 50%.      BTS use to have mining and pay 50% dividends to miners, now it pays 100% dividends to shareholders.  So in effect we doubled the value proposition through this change alone.

Prior to AGS we would have lacked the funding necessary to make PTS truly valuable.  Now we are on a roadmap to really make a difference very rapidly.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline claytonr

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2014, 02:52:10 am »
Would be nice to have bought a bit more back then!



i wasn't around at the time but those prices are awesome !

Am I missing something? Are we not basically at those prices yet again? We are at .013btc/pts on Cryptsy. And who's surprised?

Invictus diluted the value by changing what each PTS was worth in regards to future DACs. What most people understood to be a ~1:1 share in bitshares and other DACs changed in the past month to 10% of that. New social contract. Why shouldn't the value per PTS dilute to 10% of what it was when the stipulations on its use changed as well? The latest post in the thread, "Intrinsic value of Protoshares" is literally "this is no longer relevant and needs to be updated." Why? The intrinsic value has changed.

And AGS? For being against a central monetary authority, Invictus is sure acting like one. They have essentially pegged the value of PTS to AGS, and are diluting the value of PTS in favor of AGS. One PTS gets more than 1 AGS, but most people consider their intrinsic value (basically) to be equal. Why hold PTS when you can sell off into AGS? A rational market will continue to dilute PTS until the value of 1 PTS = 1 AGS. Unfortunately, until 50% of PTS are sold into AGS, the dilution will not stop. (!)

These poor choices are really burning a lot of the early adopters and enthusiastic supporters of PTS/bitshares. You can't expect the value to stay stable when you dilute it through changes in the social contract and artificially pegging it to another currency.

I may have been off with some of the details regarding 1:1 PTS:DACs, etc. I can't keep track with how often I feel these keep changing (or, I mean, being clarified). But I believe the merit of this post remains true. I think a rational person would leave PTS now. Even if that meant going into AGS - anything but PTS - because trust is lost and the valuation is corrupted.  I write this humbly with hope for a response. I don't want to sell my holdings.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 02:55:24 am by claytonr »
PTS: PoVrjrtnGpxwZYneBGfo4euvqejWMvQUDr | BTC: 1xxsebojQizYZLiuMb3yiT4Kc59Mzurqm | XPM: AaTY55Vj69f1DKfVhbPebTjrM7L8fz3AVk

Offline Giga

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2014, 08:13:20 pm »
Would be nice to have bought a bit more back then!



i wasn't around at the time but those prices are awesome !

Offline Giga

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2014, 07:43:09 pm »
will get even more regreat about the prices after a couple of years

0.1 BTC by 2015 for PTS. It's looking good. That will be around $1000 peak with $100 if nothing changes. That is a magnificent profit for speculators no matter how this plays out but if Bitshares is a success we will see 0.1 BTC and let us remember that BTC will go up between x10-x100 from here this year.

Crowd funding will become more important as the price of PTS appreciates because anyone will be able to be an investor and there will be a lot more accredited investors too. Positive feedback loop, the more DACs there are the more PTS. In a few years a PTS could be going for 0.3 or 0.4 BTC because I'm projecting a growth rate of around +0.1 BTC per year based on the success of certain DACs.

So 0.1 if Bitshares is a success. Then of course there will be DACs which come after which could turn it to 0.2, and then 0.3. I don't see it getting a lot higher than 0.3 though because you will have Mastercoin and Ethereum to compete with. Mastercoin I predicted it would reach parity with Bitcoin but now that it has such competition it might only reach 0.7. It's impossible to know for sure.

Mastercoin is expected to surpass Bitcoin in value, that remains to be seen though.

as for PTS & AGS i am very confident in significant price appreciation over the next 1 year.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 07:45:17 pm by Giga »

Offline Bitcoinfan

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2014, 01:42:33 am »
will get even more regreat about the prices after a couple of years

0.1 BTC by 2015 for PTS. It's looking good. That will be around $1000 peak with $100 if nothing changes. That is a magnificent profit for speculators no matter how this plays out but if Bitshares is a success we will see 0.1 BTC and let us remember that BTC will go up between x10-x100 from here this year.

Crowd funding will become more important as the price of PTS appreciates because anyone will be able to be an investor and there will be a lot more accredited investors too. Positive feedback loop, the more DACs there are the more PTS. In a few years a PTS could be going for 0.3 or 0.4 BTC because I'm projecting a growth rate of around +0.1 BTC per year based on the success of certain DACs.

So 0.1 if Bitshares is a success. Then of course there will be DACs which come after which could turn it to 0.2, and then 0.3. I don't see it getting a lot higher than 0.3 though because you will have Mastercoin and Ethereum to compete with. Mastercoin I predicted it would reach parity with Bitcoin but now that it has such competition it might only reach 0.7. It's impossible to know for sure.

Optimistic, but you dont see BTS/PTS being higher than BTC in a few years?

Offline luckybit

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2014, 10:49:30 pm »
will get even more regreat about the prices after a couple of years

0.1 BTC by 2015 for PTS. It's looking good. That will be around $1000 peak with $100 if nothing changes. That is a magnificent profit for speculators no matter how this plays out but if Bitshares is a success we will see 0.1 BTC and let us remember that BTC will go up between x10-x100 from here this year.

Crowd funding will become more important as the price of PTS appreciates because anyone will be able to be an investor and there will be a lot more accredited investors too. Positive feedback loop, the more DACs there are the more PTS. In a few years a PTS could be going for 0.3 or 0.4 BTC because I'm projecting a growth rate of around +0.1 BTC per year based on the success of certain DACs.

So 0.1 if Bitshares is a success. Then of course there will be DACs which come after which could turn it to 0.2, and then 0.3. I don't see it getting a lot higher than 0.3 though because you will have Mastercoin and Ethereum to compete with. Mastercoin I predicted it would reach parity with Bitcoin but now that it has such competition it might only reach 0.7. It's impossible to know for sure.


« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 10:55:18 pm by luckybit »
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Offline AizenSou

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2014, 07:31:36 pm »
why is going down the price of pts so quicly? ... is expectec to go down until 0.001btc per pts?

It's maybe because of the new GPU miner. People mine it and dump it. So expect big dump like MMC soon.

No way. A high end Nvidia card makes maximum 1 PTS/day.

Even if you have a farm of - let's say - 100 GPUs, you wont be making more than 3000 PTS/month. That's far from being a real dumping volume.

You can't compare the situation with MMC, much lower diff and much higher block rewards. PTS is getting closer to be mined out.

I believe you donschoe :D To be honest I was planning to sell all of my PTS when I heard the news about the GPU miners. So I will keep PTS until the price exploding like BTC. If it happens I will call you my master, mod :D

Offline 5chdn

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2014, 05:10:58 pm »
why is going down the price of pts so quicly? ... is expectec to go down until 0.001btc per pts?

It's maybe because of the new GPU miner. People mine it and dump it. So expect big dump like MMC soon.

No way. A high end Nvidia card makes maximum 1 PTS/day.

Even if you have a farm of - let's say - 100 GPUs, you wont be making more than 3000 PTS/month. That's far from being a real dumping volume.

You can't compare the situation with MMC, much lower diff and much higher block rewards. PTS is getting closer to be mined out.

Offline AizenSou

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Re: Anyone remember these prices?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2014, 05:02:32 pm »
why is going down the price of pts so quicly? ... is expectec to go down until 0.001btc per pts?

It's maybe because of the new GPU miner. People mine it and dump it. So expect big dump like MMC soon.