Author Topic: Taxation as theft? Classic queston, who builds the roads then?  (Read 2141 times)

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Offline Akado

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Hey guys, I've been reading a bit about this. Could you give me your input? This seems to be based mostly on the fact that taxes are coercive, that people didn't agree to it. However I have a question, which is probably the most asked.

Then how would we have, roads for example? From what I've read some people base it on free markets or voluntaryism. Or on the fact that people pay for what they use. However, what keeps from someone to create a monopoly? Imagine you need to go from A to B and that you need a bridge or road. Assume people pay no taxes. How would it work out?

I would assume some company would build it and collect a fee each time a car crossed it to pay their expenses, plus, have a profit? What keeps them from having a high fee that people can't afford? In free markets, another company, more competitive and with cheaper fees would be the option. However not every company has the needed budget to start a project like that. Someone could easily monopolize it.


Or assume something similar with an hospital and each time you go and see a doctor it is very expensive. Health is something everyone needs and if they can't afford it they could die. By necessity people would end up paying. Wouldn't that be considered coercion too? Once again assuming an hospital is something very expensive to build, hire doctors, etc and that one company could easily have the monopoly in a relatively isolated area.

I would like to have your input on this. I seem to think some taxes are needed/useful, they just aren't properly used and there is no accountability. However I would like to understand the point of view from someone who things taxes really aren't needed. Not just the why, but solutions too, like for the examples I gave. I find this an interesting topic of conversation and would like to learn more. If someone in a conversation asked me this I couldn't refute it so I would like your help and try to understand this side of the argument.
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Xeldal

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Re: Taxation as theft? Classic queston, who builds the roads then?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2016, 01:44:18 am »
Definitely one of the most commonly asked questions.  You shouldn't have any difficulty finding material about it.

Walter Block and Robert P. Murphy are good sources.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUA4h8ctNWM
https://mises.org/files/privatization-roads-and-highways2pdf/download?token=iNj7y29w
http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-316-who-will-build-the-roads/
http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2013/Murphymanage.html

Robert Murphy has some great stuff on how defense and law would work without a state as well.

Even if by some magic the government were the only ones who could possibly make roads work. (which is nonsense)
Even if that were true.  It still shouldn't be done by government.  As a moral principle.  I can never support forcibly stealing resources and money from individuals for the whim of some other individuals.  It doesn't matter how well they can do the job. 

Thankfully private individuals, private enterprise, can (always) provide any and all services that government does, and they can do it better and cheaper.

Government IS the monopoly on these services. 
 

Offline Tuck Fheman

« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:28:32 am by Tuck Fheman »
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Offline donkeypong

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Re: Taxation as theft? Classic queston, who builds the roads then?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2016, 04:16:58 am »
As long as there is a government providing services, then some taxation or other form of revenue collection is needed to fund those services. If society decides it does not need a government, then there would not be taxation. Either way, there's no theft.

Offline onceuponatime

Re: Taxation as theft? Classic queston, who builds the roads then?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2016, 04:27:31 am »
As long as there is a government providing services, then some taxation or other form of revenue collection is needed to fund those services. If society decides it does not need a government, then there would not be taxation. Either way, there's no theft.

I (as in me) have decided I do not want the government's services. Any money they take from me is most certainly theft (as in armed robbery). Are we not moving towards "mutual aid societies" which one joins voluntarily? No force required.

Offline Akado

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Re: Taxation as theft? Classic queston, who builds the roads then?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2016, 12:44:10 pm »
http://tuckfheman.com/post/144032857109/kounttrapula-its-been-easier-to-convince-people

http://tuckfheman.com/post/117275513169/exclusive-terrorist-caught-filling-in-potholes

lol loved that post!

Well, private contractors or people who would volunteer would do it. But who would pay those private contractors and who would volunteer? I would agree with that, if people wouldn't be so selfish. There is always that one that doesn't want to spend the money/time on being productive, yet will end up benefiting from it. Will you verify each person who passes on each street to see if that person helped build it? It's not feasible.

Will we have always the same nucleus of people spending their time and money on those kind of things? What about the rest? They will end up benefiting from the sacrifices of others. That's my issue here.

In a city who would pay for security? The citizens, sure, but what about those who wouldn't? Security would just witness a murder and not care because that person didn't pay for it?

I can't seem to see past that, that's why I asked here, to see if someone could educate me a bit on that.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 12:45:47 pm by Akado »
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Offline oldmine

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Re: Taxation as theft? Classic queston, who builds the roads then?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2016, 01:18:00 pm »
Yes taxes are theft, but a tax on fuel to pay for roads is acceptable. A fuel tax is only paid by the users of roads, as opposed to an income tax which is used to fund welfare etc.

Offline Tuck Fheman

Re: Taxation as theft? Classic queston, who builds the roads then?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2016, 01:50:06 pm »
lol loved that post!

:)

Check some of these videos out, they answer a lot of questions that you seem to have...
https://www.youtube.com/user/grahampwright/videos
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Offline MisO69

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Re: Taxation as theft? Classic queston, who builds the roads then?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2016, 03:16:22 pm »
My problem with taxes is that they pile them atop one another, then say its okay because one tax is federal and the other something else. Its no wonder people try to avoid paying taxes whenever possible.

Why am I hit with a sales tax when I already paid income tax on that money? If I want to buy something big like a house or car I get taxed with all kinds of new taxes like land transfer tax, and whatever else they can come up with.

I'm fine with paying taxes, but just one, not over and over again. That is theft.