BitHalo / BlackHalo addition to BitShares

[neo1344]

if interested pls join Bay slack to exchange ideas with David and others regarding BitHalo and smartcontracts
please use link below.
http://bitbay.market/wp-login.php?action=slack-invitation

Thanks

[yvv]

cannot use openbazzar for this? 

It never worked for me. Gave up trying.

[yvv]

How much collateral?

Is there anything beyond just the single contract.. or does each transaction build proof of trust?

The collateral is up to both parties to decide, both define it and send the proposal to the other party.

Example:
Guy from New York wants a guitar from a guy in Nigeria who wants 200 USD by bank wire. Both do not know each other nor they trust each other.

Guy from New York wants Nigerian counterparty to put 400 USD in Bitshares as collateral and agrees to bankwire the 200 USD.
Guy from Nigeria wants 250 USD in Bitshares as collateral from the guy in New York.
Deadline for agreeing to the completed transaction is set to august 1st. If not both agree until this date that the transaction went ok, both will loose their collateral.

If they accept this smartcontract and fund it accordingly they both can trust that the other party does not want to loose his collateral, so now both want the transaction to go well.

Scenario 1, everything ok:
Nigerian guy sends the guitar and New Yorker guy sends the 200 USD bank wire. Upon receival both give their ok (private key signature) for the multisig smartcontract to return the collateral to each.

Scenario 2, bankwire not received in Nigeria:
Nigerian guy does not sign the return of collateral and New Yorker guy could loose 250 USD in collateral instead of 200 USD bank wire. If he does not sign also the Nigerian guy could loose his 400 USD collateral. So he would not do it if he had received the bank wire in reality.

Scenario 3, guitar not received in New York:
Same thing, this time the New Yorker would not sign the return of the collaterals. The New Yorker might loose 250 USD in collateral plus 200 USD in bank wire, and the Nigerian guy would loose his 400 USD collateral.


With this system both want the transaction to go alright because they would loose more if they didn't agree. They can adjust the collateral as they want and how much their trust level to the other party is. The smart contract can also define payment in Bitshares or BitUSD upon agreeing on completion and returning of the collateral.

This is how it is done in BlackHalo. And works beautifully...

Scenario 4 : Wait.. what about this?
Guy sends $200.. he gets his guitar but finds there is a scratch he didn't see in the photo.. or.. got destroyed during delivery. Nigerian says sorry sir.. but I sent you your guitar.. he says no.. I'm not paying for this.. well screw you.. no.. screw you.. aaaand what then?

Evidently, there are several possible cases here:

4.1 NY guy sends scratched guitar back to Nigeria, receives $200 refund in return and both guys unlock their collateral.
NY-Nigeria: 0:0

4.2 NY guy keeps his scratched guitar, Nigerian guy keeps $200, and their collateral stay locked forever.
NY:scratched guitar-$450; Nigeria:-$200

4.3 NY guy sends scratched guitar to Nigeria, Nigerian guy receives it and keeps $200 for himself. Both collateral stay locked forever.
NY:-$450; Nigeria:-$200+scratched guitar

4.4 NY guy receives $200 refund and decides to keep his scratched guitar for himself. Both collateral stay locked forever.
NY: -$250+scrached guitar; Nigeria: totally fuck up.

You choose

[bitsharesbrazil]

cannot use openbazzar for this? 

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

How much collateral?

Is there anything beyond just the single contract.. or does each transaction build proof of trust?

The collateral is up to both parties to decide, both define it and send the proposal to the other party.

Example:
Guy from New York wants a guitar from a guy in Nigeria who wants 200 USD by bank wire. Both do not know each other nor they trust each other.

Guy from New York wants Nigerian counterparty to put 400 USD in Bitshares as collateral and agrees to bankwire the 200 USD.
Guy from Nigeria wants 250 USD in Bitshares as collateral from the guy in New York.
Deadline for agreeing to the completed transaction is set to august 1st. If not both agree until this date that the transaction went ok, both will loose their collateral.

If they accept this smartcontract and fund it accordingly they both can trust that the other party does not want to loose his collateral, so now both want the transaction to go well.

Scenario 1, everything ok:
Nigerian guy sends the guitar and New Yorker guy sends the 200 USD bank wire. Upon receival both give their ok (private key signature) for the multisig smartcontract to return the collateral to each.

Scenario 2, bankwire not received in Nigeria:
Nigerian guy does not sign the return of collateral and New Yorker guy could loose 250 USD in collateral instead of 200 USD bank wire. If he does not sign also the Nigerian guy could loose his 400 USD collateral. So he would not do it if he had received the bank wire in reality.

Scenario 3, guitar not received in New York:
Same thing, this time the New Yorker would not sign the return of the collaterals. The New Yorker might loose 250 USD in collateral plus 200 USD in bank wire, and the Nigerian guy would loose his 400 USD collateral.


With this system both want the transaction to go alright because they would loose more if they didn't agree. They can adjust the collateral as they want and how much their trust level to the other party is. The smart contract can also define payment in Bitshares or BitUSD upon agreeing on completion and returning of the collateral.

This is how it is done in BlackHalo. And works beautifully...

Scenario 4 : Wait.. what about this?
Guy sends $200.. he gets his guitar but finds there is a scratch he didn't see in the photo.. or.. got destroyed during delivery. Nigerian says sorry sir.. but I sent you your guitar.. he says no.. I'm not paying for this.. well screw you.. no.. screw you.. aaaand what then?

[okidoki]

How much collateral?

Is there anything beyond just the single contract.. or does each transaction build proof of trust?

The collateral is up to both parties to decide, both define it and send the proposal to the other party.

Example:
Guy from New York wants a guitar from a guy in Nigeria who wants 200 USD by bank wire. Both do not know each other nor they trust each other.

Guy from New York wants Nigerian counterparty to put 400 USD in Bitshares as collateral and agrees to bankwire the 200 USD.
Guy from Nigeria wants 250 USD in Bitshares as collateral from the guy in New York.
Deadline for agreeing to the completed transaction is set to august 1st. If not both agree until this date that the transaction went ok, both will loose their collateral.

If they accept this smartcontract and fund it accordingly they both can trust that the other party does not want to loose his collateral, so now both want the transaction to go well.

Scenario 1, everything ok:
Nigerian guy sends the guitar and New Yorker guy sends the 200 USD bank wire. Upon receival both give their ok (private key signature) for the multisig smartcontract to return the collateral to each.

Scenario 2, bankwire not received in Nigeria:
Nigerian guy does not sign the return of collateral and New Yorker guy could loose 250 USD in collateral instead of 200 USD bank wire. If he does not sign also the Nigerian guy could loose his 400 USD collateral. So he would not do it if he had received the bank wire in reality.

Scenario 3, guitar not received in New York:
Same thing, this time the New Yorker would not sign the return of the collaterals. The New Yorker might loose 250 USD in collateral plus 200 USD in bank wire, and the Nigerian guy would loose his 400 USD collateral.


With this system both want the transaction to go alright because they would loose more if they didn't agree. They can adjust the collateral as they want and how much their trust level to the other party is. The smart contract can also define payment in Bitshares or BitUSD upon agreeing on completion and returning of the collateral.

This is how it is done in BlackHalo. And works beautifully...

[pc]

This would make it possible that someone could buy a guitar from someone in Nigeria without knowing or trusting him... he just defines how many bitshares the guy in Nigeria would have to put up as collateral and the guy in Nigeria telling the guy in New York how much he would want from the guy in New York as collateral and how much Bitshares as payment for the guitar upon completion... The payment in the smart contract could also be zero and just a normal bank wire could be done...

If upon completion everybody is fine with the result they both agree to the return of the funds. Also a deadline can be set, so that they have to agree until a certain date... for example in a week, or a month or whatever... not finding a way to agree until this date will block the collateral forever. So both parties are eager to find a solution.

No they're not.

Suppose the collateral has been put up, and the guy in NY has sent the payment. Now the guy in Nigeria has both payment and the guitar, and both players have locked up their collateral. Unless the collateral put up by the Nigerian is worth much more than the New Yorker's collateral, the Nigerian's incentive to find a solution is lower than the New Yorker's.

The same problem exists in the other direction, where the Nigerian sends the guitar but the New Yorker doesn't send the payment.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

How much collateral?

Is there anything beyond just the single contract.. or does each transaction build proof of trust?

[okidoki]

I think many Community Members here are top nodge and could do this very quickly (KenCode, Xeroc??)... David Zimbeck who invented it even did not know how to code before doing BlackHalo... If I only knew how to code C++...

I always found Halo missing in BitShares... having this integrated would be an absolute killer...

Anyone can learn how to code C++ (javascript, go, etc you name it) in a couple of weeks, except complete retards. The problem is that in order to create a quality financial platform, coding is not a main skill required. There is quite a bit of science involved. Financial science existed long before  computer age.

My bad... I mean of course the C++ stuff in conjunction with BitShares source code and knowledge of hundreds of libraries (difficult to get a good knowledge in a few weeks)... Not a simple "Hello World" without dependencies... The thing I wanted to say with this is that I cannot code this I cannot implement this and be a contributor on Github... so someone else perhaps can see how BlackHalo works and implement the same in Bitshares... perhaps you? Would be great...

[yvv]

I think many Community Members here are top nodge and could do this very quickly (KenCode, Xeroc??)... David Zimbeck who invented it even did not know how to code before doing BlackHalo... If I only knew how to code C++...

I always found Halo missing in BitShares... having this integrated would be an absolute killer...

Anyone can learn how to code C++ (javascript, go, etc you name it) in a couple of weeks, except complete retards. The problem is that in order to create a quality financial platform, coding is not a main skill required. There is quite a bit of science involved. Financial science existed long before  computer age.

[okidoki]

I think many Community Members here are top nodge and could do this very quickly (KenCode, Xeroc??)... David Zimbeck who invented it even did not know how to code before doing BlackHalo... If I only knew how to code C++...

I always found Halo missing in BitShares... having this integrated would be an absolute killer...

[cryptillionaire]

BitHalo and BlackHalo are not open source, if you can get source it's obfuscated.

[nmywn]

This is most useful thing we could have.

[yvv]

This sounds like a very interesting use case for bitshares.

[okidoki]

This would make it possible that someone could buy a guitar from someone in Nigeria without knowing or trusting him... he just defines how many bitshares the guy in Nigeria would have to put up as collateral and the guy in Nigeria telling the guy in New York how much he would want from the guy in New York as collateral and how much Bitshares as payment for the guitar upon completion... The payment in the smart contract could also be zero and just a normal bank wire could be done...

If upon completion everybody is fine with the result they both agree to the return of the funds. Also a deadline can be set, so that they have to agree until a certain date... for example in a week, or a month or whatever... not finding a way to agree until this date will block the collateral forever. So both parties are eager to find a solution.

The market for this kind of transactions in the world must be in the billions in a year. They could use BitShares as a collateral or BitAssets like BitUSD etc... this would be the only platform offering this kind of possibility in an integrated way...