Author Topic: Brainstorm - Bit20 MSSR / margin call  (Read 14248 times)

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Offline yvv

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@EstefanTT I've confirmed your findings and updated the GUI accordingly, it will be included in the next release coming later today.

I've also taken the time to update my Google doc explaining margin call mechanics, I believe it's now in sync with the current rules. Please review here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h9E6N9VECh48NKRQGFoPQsSwfZXT4p_TD3LT3CqeTYk/edit?usp=sharing


Now it makes much more sense. Thanks for update.


Offline svk

@EstefanTT I've confirmed your findings and updated the GUI accordingly, it will be included in the next release coming later today.

I've also taken the time to update my Google doc explaining margin call mechanics, I believe it's now in sync with the current rules. Please review here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h9E6N9VECh48NKRQGFoPQsSwfZXT4p_TD3LT3CqeTYk/edit?usp=sharing

 @xeroc  Could you update the docs.bitshares.eu documentation to reflect my changes?
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Offline DestBest

Little update: I was able to borrow  BTWTY with real min collateral ratio. SQP  *  MCR  requirement sits at GUI level.
Just edit this line:
https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/blob/master/web/app/components/Modal/BorrowModal.jsx#L191
Awesome job!
Thank you for taking the time to test this out +5%
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Offline svk

@svk , when would be the next gui release ? Would you consider to rectify this issue ?

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Sure. I suspected this needed to be changed so thanks for doing the testing. I intend to release new light wallets either tomorrow or Tuesday, will try to squeeze this in too.
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Offline EstefanTT

@svk , when would be the next gui release ? Would you consider to rectify this issue ?

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Offline nmywn

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@yvv It makes sense. Lower required collateral for everyone without any negative impact(?). Sounds great.
In current state some shorters  can borrow more for less.

@EstefanTT
Anyone can do the changes and run own client. Current limitation is false.
@svk can change this for all users, with new gui release.

Offline yvv

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No forced settlement
MCR: 175% (may increase to 200%)
MSSR: 100.1%


Forced settlement is actually not a bad thing. Since it happens at feed price (minus offset), it is fair for both,  for shorter and for holder. It does not hurt the shorter if an asset is traded at above feed price. If you are force settled, just re-open your position again. If asset is traded below feed, shorting should be discouraged, and if you have opened short position at this time, it is a good time to close it anyway.

Offline EstefanTT

A warning should be displayed until the collateral is MCR + 20% (for example).

Normally shorters know what they are doing but to become a shorter, you have to make you first short some day !  Newbies would benefit from this warning.

I'm not well amare of the system that it's use for updating the GUI code.
Who is allowed to do that ?
What could I do to help ?
Would the change be done on the desktop client and OL ? 

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« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 02:38:32 pm by EstefanTT »
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Offline yvv

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Little update: I was able to borrow  BTWTY with real min collateral ratio. SQP  *  MCR  requirement sits at GUI level.
Just edit this line:
https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/blob/master/web/app/components/Modal/BorrowModal.jsx#L191


Nice find. Does it make sense to change GUI such that it allows to put collateral as low as real min, but gives a warning or something if it is dangerously low?

Offline nmywn

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Little update: I was able to borrow  BTWTY with real min collateral ratio. SQP  *  MCR  requirement sits at GUI level.
Just edit this line:
https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene-ui/blob/master/web/app/components/Modal/BorrowModal.jsx#L191


Offline merivercap

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Hey @EstefanTT,

FYI Here are our parameters for our Smartcoins you may want to consider:

No forced settlement
MCR: 175% (may increase to 200%)
MSSR: 100.1%

I think the above design will protect shorters and encourage trading around the price feed.  Hope this helps. 

(Note: This is for CASH.USD & CASH.BTC.  We had some delays, but we plan to utilize these Smartcoins soon.)
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Beta: bitCash Trade (https://trade.bitcash.org)

Offline nmywn

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Those facts come from my margin call experiment:

I confirm that I was still NOT margin called at 176% of collateralization.
Once at 175% I was margin called.
I could not borrow BTWTY with less than 192.5% of collateralization.

So ok.
 
Quote from: EstefanTT
Are you sure that the margin call is not  triggered simply when collateral reach MCR * Price feed ? So currently 175% of the price feed.

I've done calculations based at real numbers in GUI margin dialog box. I Did it under false assumption that docs can be outdated, but working product for sure not. Also ignored fact that dialog box works as described  in outdated docs. In that case:

There is actually no point to require minimum 192% (MCR*MSSR) starting collateral anymore. Before change in shorting rules (with old rules which are given in documentation) it did make sense, because margin call could be triggered at this threshold. Now minimum collateral can be set to MCR.

I must totally agree.

Offline EstefanTT

There is actually no point to require minimum 192% (MCR*MSSR) starting collateral anymore. Before change in shorting rules (with old rules which are given in documentation) it did make sense, because margin call could be triggered at this threshold. Now minimum collateral can be set to MCR.
It has a positive point, it prevents someone to set 175% collateral and get margin call 2 seconds after finishing its operation if the price move a little.

When you say that it makes no sense, is there a way to avoid it ?

Because when I'll increase the MSSR to 140%, the collateral asked will be around 250%, which is crazy high. I want to incentive shorters, not the oposite.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 03:01:58 pm by EstefanTT »
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Offline yvv

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There is actually no point to require minimum 192% (MCR*MSSR) starting collateral anymore. Before change in shorting rules (with old rules which are given in documentation) it did make sense, because margin call could be triggered at this threshold. Now minimum collateral can be set to MCR.

Offline DestBest

//Current situation
The minimum collateral (which is amount of BTS): Feed price * (1.1 *1.75) * DEBT .
Shorter's  ammount of BTS in deposit must be higher than that. Otherwise margin call is triggered for him.
This means If you w'ont trigger any margin calls your (newX  * newY) outcome can't be higher than current (1.1 *1.75). Increasing "1.1" while decreasing "1.75" looks like the only option.  In other hand, MCR can't go to low if market is unstable and illiquid. Something for something, not much place for changes.

Your margin call trigger price:  COLLATERAL  /  DEBT / (1.1 * 1.75)          //not displayed in dialog box, I think it should be.
current margin call order price: 1.1 * Feed price                                      // current yellow order price, if happen
Your margin call order price:  1.1 * Your margin call trigger price               // your yellow order price in the future.

COLLATERAL is  ammount of deposited BTS

You can check those equations by playing with BTWTY Margin  dialog box.
Are you sure that the margin call is not  triggered simply when collateral reach MCR * Price feed ? So currently 175% of the price feed.

Carefull that the documentation has mistakes !

I observed carefully how DestBest get its order margin called and it seems that he had to put a minimum of 192% to borrow its BTWTY but nothing happened until he reached 175% of collateral. Then, passing at 174% he has been margin call.

Could you confirm it @DestBest ?
Those facts come from my margin call experiment:

I confirm that I was still NOT margin called at 176% of collateralization.
Once at 175% I was margin called.
I could not borrow BTWTY with less than 192.5% of collateralization.
BitShares French ConneXion, le portail francophone BitShares.
BitShares French ConneXion, the BitShares french gateway.
www.bitsharesfcx.com