Author Topic: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain  (Read 2677 times)

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Offline OpenLedgerCorp

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ICO.CENTZ.NET
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WEB  ::  BLOG  ::   FACEBOOK  ::  TWITTER  ::  SLACK

START Mar 31, 2017 at 08.00UTC; END May 30, 2017 20.UTC

Welcome to the Centz crowdsale powered by OpenLedger and its suite of crowdfunding solutions.

OpenLedger & Ronny Boesing presents Centz, a first of its kind crowdfunding offer that we are bringing to you through our platform CCEDK. We are revolutionizing the investment world through the crowdfunding method of the future. Centz is the first of many offerings that we have identified as being revolutionary and disruptive.

OpenLedger is helping not only the startup to reach its goals, but at the same time making sure all sponsors and investors are given the real-time updates allowing an ever growing belief in the project. This happens throughout the life of the project. OpenLedger is the lead investor, making sure that protocol and payments are done in strict according with published milestones.

WHAT IS OpenLedger
OpenLedger started out as a decentralized exchange. It has now become a  decentralized conglomerate and has developed many businesses supported by recently revamped cryptocurrency exchange CCEDK. OpenLedger is a startup crowdfunding service provider, information exchange and ISO access point open to the public so anyone can participate in “deals of the future”. For the first time crypto investors of the world have the ability to get in front of the all the “professional”, “smart” money and reap the rewards that are usually reserved for a privileged few.

TRILLION DOLLAR GIFT CARD INDUSTRY ON THE BLOCKCHAIN

CENTZ - What we do



Click on the image to check the video

CENTZ - PREVENTING GIFT CARD FRAUD



Click on the image to check the video

Centz - Use all your giftcards like never before



Click on the image to check the video

LINKS
WHITEPAPER
ISO WEBSITE
MORE INFO DETAILS
PATENT FILING RECEIPTS

CENTZ AND THE BLOCKCHAIN
Centz will put every registered gift card identity and gift card balance on the universal gift card registery, which will be on the blockchain, providing total security and safety.

  • First universal gift card register placed on the blockchain
  • First time gift card identities are on the blockchain
  • First time gift card fraud is eliminated

WHAT CENTZ DOES
Centz is a revolutionary fintech company that is going to first disrupt the worldwide $1 trillion USD dollar gift card market, and then change it in ways that have never been imagined.

WHY SHOULD INVESTOR CONSIDER CENTZ COINS AS AN INVESTMENT
Centz coins represent an opportunity for any individual to participate in a ground floor opportunity of a next generation of financial technology company.

  • Participating in the Centz ISO allows you to invest in early rounds of funding, which up until now, has been the exclusive territory of the super rich
  • Participating in the Centz ISO provides you with the largest outsized risk-adjusted returns compared to any investment
  • Participating in the Centz ISO gives you access to institutional-quality equity offering online and in real time, truly the wave of the future
  • Participating in the Centz ISO eliminates the historical minimum investment requirements for private equity deals
  • Participating in the Centz ISO lets you become a venture capitalist

INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY
Centz has filed two patents that are groundbreaking and revolutionary that protect our business model and creates unique blockchain encryption security to prevent gift card fraud and money laundering. Centz is poised to file three additional patents that will secure additional IP that surrounds and extends our core technology.

ISO TIER PRICING AND BONUS SCHEDULE
TO BE ANNOUNCED


CENTZ TARGETS LARGEST EMERGING DEMOGRAPHIC MARKET
By 2020, millennials will represent over 75 percent of total income growth globally. In addition, millennials will be approximately 30 percent of the population in the US, Europe, and China. And they will have 40 percent of income, making them a critical segment to capture for retail brands.

  • Centz solutions capture the largest segment of this dynamic market with our mobile wallet
  • Centz delivers relentless customer service second to none
  • Centz utilized both implicit and explicit data to tailor the entire web and mobile user experience
  • Centz is building a energized customer base that will engage in recurring transactions
  • Centz provides outsourced fraud management so retailers can focus on growing their business

WHAT IS A CENTZ COIN & WHAT ARE IT’S SPECIAL RIGHTS
Centz coins are an asset backed by the class A common shares of CENTZ common stock and will have a yearly dividend payment.

DISBURSEMENT OF PARTICIPATING REVENUE
All revenue payments will be made by OpenLedger thru their platform CCEDK and will be to registered owners of CENTZ tokens on the anniversary date of the closing of the ISO.

MINIMUM THRESHOLD: $2 MILLION USD
Should the crowdfunding campaign fail to reach its minimum capital goal of $2 million USD, then all funds will be returned.

DISPERSEMENT OF FUNDS - ESCROW
All funds will be dispersed according to the milestone timeline and be administered by OpenLedger using a multi signature wallet administered by three people. Ronny Boesing, CEO OpenLedger, Ronald Kramer, Chairman Bitshares Foundation and one more minimum coming up to be disclosed prior to start of crowdsale

ISO FUNDS REFUND
If the minimum amount of $2 million USD is not raised, then all funds will be returned.

FOUNDERS LIQUIDITY
The founders of CENTZ will hold no tokens and thus have no ability to profit from the ISO in any way. The founders are committed to building the next mega sized business, such as Facebook, Uber & Airbnb.

CENTZ IN THE MEDIA:

How to invest in the ‘Centz Gold Bucks’ Token Crowd Sale

Blockchain Startup Centz Goes After Billions in Breakage

Making Centz of this Crypto Crowdsale @GetCentz

This start up is about to revolutionize how billions in retail dollars are spent

Disruptive 'Crypto' Startup Centz Eyes $160Bn Gift Cards Market

Centz Vows to Give You Control of Your Gift Card Money Via OpenLedger ICO at Money 2020

Centz Gift Card Service to Host ICO on OpenLedger


GIFT CARDS IN THE NEWS:

The Idiot's Guide To Laundering $9 Million

Gift Card Fraud: Part of a Growing Trillion-Dollar Global Epidemic

Blockchain 'Crypto' Crowdfunding Phenomenon Primed For Industry Disruption & Beyond

Giant Food Sees Giant Card Fraud Spike

Gift card exchange site draws scrutiny as bad cards trip up consumers


BOUNTIES
A % of the ISO is reserved for or early-stage marketing and bounty campaigns which will be distributed to everyone who contributes to the CENTZ ISO before and during the ISO . We offer bounties for:
translations and forum moderation,
Bitcointalk signatures: information coming soon


SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Centz Facebook
Centz Twitter


CENTZ  TIMELINE
https://ico.centz.net/assets/files/Centz%20Timeline.pdf


CENTZ COIN TOKEN ADDITIONAL CONVERSION RIGHTS
An additional conversion right of the Centz coin is the ability to convert into Centz Gold Bucks, which can be used to buy gift cards listed on the Centz platform. The conversion of Centz coin into Centz Gold Bucks will be at a ratio of 2 (two) Centz coin for 1 (one) Centz Gold Buck.

TRADABILITY OF THE CENTZ COIN
All Centz coins will be tradeable the first day after the ISO concludes. The 16 million Centz coins will convert into 16,000,000 shares of Centz Class A common stock.

CORE TEAM & ADVISORS
Jon Bricken, CEO
Swen Swenson, President
Ronny Boesing, OpenLedger ICO Team
Annemieke Dirkes, OpenLedger ICO Team


DEVELOPMENT TEAM
Greg Belken, CTO
Mark R. Smelcer, CPO


TRANSLATIONS
Coming soon


Before the start of Centz's crowdsale get more info about  "Early Bird" offer here:
Centz "Early Bird" special offer
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 11:09:00 am by ccedk_pro »
OpenLedger - Truly decentralized crypto trading platform for novice and professional traders

Offline santaclause102

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 02:51:56 pm »
How many class A shares will there be in total? Without that info there is no way to evaluate the offer.

Offline btswolf

Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2017, 03:34:12 pm »
How many class A shares will there be in total? Without that info there is no way to evaluate the offer.

Quote
https://ico.centz.net/assets/files/The%20Offer.pdf

16,000,000 Centz token represent 16% of total outstanding Class A shares
= 100,000,000 total Class A shares

Offline santaclause102

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2017, 04:13:06 pm »
How many class A shares will there be in total? Without that info there is no way to evaluate the offer.

Quote
https://ico.centz.net/assets/files/The%20Offer.pdf

16,000,000 Centz token represent 16% of total outstanding Class A shares
= 100,000,000 total Class A shares
I read that too. But since it wasn't part of the OP I didn't want to make that assumption. So can ronny confirm?

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 01:40:30 pm »
It is exactly correct what btswolf said.
Furthermore 10% of the crowdfunding revenue is used to buy OBITS.WARRANT which will then be distributed to all investors on a first come first served basis, since only 4 million OBITS made available for this action, and both apptrade, centz and getgame investors all three projects have this special added value included.

It means that:

a) apart from equity in Centz,
b) dividends in the form of token drop from revenues of Centz operations
c) exit option at tier 1 rate being able to trade, when tier 2 level has been reached,
d) exit option from 2 CNTZ tokens to 1 GoldBuck to be used to buy giftcards,

you have additionally an option to buy a part of OpenLedger with the buying of OBITS at the price of 0,16 USD anytime in 2017 no matter the price at the time of execution. If you bought 1000 Centz you would receive as well 100 OBITS.WARRANT valid to be used in 2017 only.

I have put an amount of 500 000 OBITS.WARRANT up for sale at 0,10 as well, so that deseription is available on cryptofresh.com (this is for the ones not interested in buy into either of the above mentioned three projects.

http://cryptofresh.com/a/OBITS.WARRANT

Regards

Ronny Boesing
CEO
OPenLedger

« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 01:49:30 pm by ccedk »
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 04:20:23 pm »
It is exactly correct what btswolf said.


Very roughly: 1000 usd = 1 BTC = 1000 centz tokens.  And 1 centz token gives you 1 A share of the centz company --> Since there are 100 million A shares in total the centz company would be valued at 100 million USD - pre-product and without any users.

Everyone should judge these numbers by themselves but it is very rare for a seed investment valuation to exceed 10 million, see for example https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/19/what-reset-both-seed-and-late-stage-valuations-just-hit-record-levels-says-new-report/

b) dividends in the form of token drop from revenues of Centz operations
The pdf btswolf quoted states that the dividend is 10% of the revenue of the centz business until the equity is dropped onto centz token holders when the threshold is reached, yet all centz token holders hold 16% of the whole centz business....


Offline lil_jay890

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 08:47:55 pm »
It is exactly correct what btswolf said.


Very roughly: 1000 usd = 1 BTC = 1000 centz tokens.  And 1 centz token gives you 1 A share of the centz company --> Since there are 100 million A shares in total the centz company would be valued at 100 million USD - pre-product and without any users.

Everyone should judge these numbers by themselves but it is very rare for a seed investment valuation to exceed 10 million, see for example https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/19/what-reset-both-seed-and-late-stage-valuations-just-hit-record-levels-says-new-report/

b) dividends in the form of token drop from revenues of Centz operations
The pdf btswolf quoted states that the dividend is 10% of the revenue of the centz business until the equity is dropped onto centz token holders when the threshold is reached, yet all centz token holders hold 16% of the whole centz business....

It wouldn't be a Crypto ICO if it didn't value itself at some obscene 8-9 figure valuation...

Most of the ICO's done on the bitshares platform have done this as well, leading to the constant downward pressure on nearly every UIA.  Basically anyone who bought into any UIA has lost money in both BTS terms and Dollar terms.  This is a huge reason, among several others, that the BTS token gets sold off hard on every single pump to lower highs.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 09:12:17 pm »
It is exactly correct what btswolf said.


Very roughly: 1000 usd = 1 BTC = 1000 centz tokens.  And 1 centz token gives you 1 A share of the centz company --> Since there are 100 million A shares in total the centz company would be valued at 100 million USD - pre-product and without any users.

Everyone should judge these numbers by themselves but it is very rare for a seed investment valuation to exceed 10 million, see for example https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/19/what-reset-both-seed-and-late-stage-valuations-just-hit-record-levels-says-new-report/

b) dividends in the form of token drop from revenues of Centz operations
The pdf btswolf quoted states that the dividend is 10% of the revenue of the centz business until the equity is dropped onto centz token holders when the threshold is reached, yet all centz token holders hold 16% of the whole centz business....

It wouldn't be a Crypto ICO if it didn't value itself at some obscene 8-9 figure valuation...

Most of the ICO's done on the bitshares platform have done this as well, leading to the constant downward pressure on nearly every UIA.  Basically anyone who bought into any UIA has lost money in both BTS terms and Dollar terms.  This is a huge reason, among several others, that the BTS token gets sold off hard on every single pump to lower highs.
Why would that effect the BTS token?
btw, it's always hard to call a valley, but I think it's time to take of your BTS depression glasses;)

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 10:10:11 pm »
It is exactly correct what btswolf said.


Very roughly: 1000 usd = 1 BTC = 1000 centz tokens.  And 1 centz token gives you 1 A share of the centz company --> Since there are 100 million A shares in total the centz company would be valued at 100 million USD - pre-product and without any users.

Everyone should judge these numbers by themselves but it is very rare for a seed investment valuation to exceed 10 million, see for example https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/19/what-reset-both-seed-and-late-stage-valuations-just-hit-record-levels-says-new-report/

b) dividends in the form of token drop from revenues of Centz operations
The pdf btswolf quoted states that the dividend is 10% of the revenue of the centz business until the equity is dropped onto centz token holders when the threshold is reached, yet all centz token holders hold 16% of the whole centz business....

It wouldn't be a Crypto ICO if it didn't value itself at some obscene 8-9 figure valuation...

Most of the ICO's done on the bitshares platform have done this as well, leading to the constant downward pressure on nearly every UIA.  Basically anyone who bought into any UIA has lost money in both BTS terms and Dollar terms.  This is a huge reason, among several others, that the BTS token gets sold off hard on every single pump to lower highs.
Why would that effect the BTS token?
btw, it's always hard to call a valley, but I think it's time to take of your BTS depression glasses;)

And put on the rose colored ones that have caused so many here to lose tons of cash?  Maybe when this dog stops getting sold on every pump I'll think about it.  Maybe when almost every single UIA doesn't look like a downward ski slope.

Reason why it pushes the BTS price down.  UIA's are distributed to all these people... many of who just want to sell on the first pump.  Because of this, the pump is small but they still want out.  The try to dump the tokens for bts, then try to dump the BTS of btc.  Because there is a lack of new blood in BTS, and because most of the supporters here have nothing left to invest, there is no buy liquidity.  It can be seen in nearly every order book.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 10:33:16 pm »
It is exactly correct what btswolf said.


Very roughly: 1000 usd = 1 BTC = 1000 centz tokens.  And 1 centz token gives you 1 A share of the centz company --> Since there are 100 million A shares in total the centz company would be valued at 100 million USD - pre-product and without any users.

Everyone should judge these numbers by themselves but it is very rare for a seed investment valuation to exceed 10 million, see for example https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/19/what-reset-both-seed-and-late-stage-valuations-just-hit-record-levels-says-new-report/

b) dividends in the form of token drop from revenues of Centz operations
The pdf btswolf quoted states that the dividend is 10% of the revenue of the centz business until the equity is dropped onto centz token holders when the threshold is reached, yet all centz token holders hold 16% of the whole centz business....

It wouldn't be a Crypto ICO if it didn't value itself at some obscene 8-9 figure valuation...

Most of the ICO's done on the bitshares platform have done this as well, leading to the constant downward pressure on nearly every UIA.  Basically anyone who bought into any UIA has lost money in both BTS terms and Dollar terms.  This is a huge reason, among several others, that the BTS token gets sold off hard on every single pump to lower highs.
Why would that effect the BTS token?
btw, it's always hard to call a valley, but I think it's time to take of your BTS depression glasses;)

And put on the rose colored ones that have caused so many here to lose tons of cash?  Maybe when this dog stops getting sold on every pump I'll think about it.  Maybe when almost every single UIA doesn't look like a downward ski slope.

Reason why it pushes the BTS price down.  UIA's are distributed to all these people... many of who just want to sell on the first pump.  Because of this, the pump is small but they still want out.  The try to dump the tokens for bts, then try to dump the BTS of btc.  Because there is a lack of new blood in BTS, and because most of the supporters here have nothing left to invest, there is no buy liquidity.  It can be seen in nearly every order book.
Sorry, but your explanation lacks an independent first reason that is not the same reason BTS would go down without the UIA tokens as well.

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2017, 04:20:36 am »
It is exactly correct what btswolf said.


Very roughly: 1000 usd = 1 BTC = 1000 centz tokens.  And 1 centz token gives you 1 A share of the centz company --> Since there are 100 million A shares in total the centz company would be valued at 100 million USD - pre-product and without any users.

Everyone should judge these numbers by themselves but it is very rare for a seed investment valuation to exceed 10 million, see for example https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/19/what-reset-both-seed-and-late-stage-valuations-just-hit-record-levels-says-new-report/

b) dividends in the form of token drop from revenues of Centz operations
The pdf btswolf quoted states that the dividend is 10% of the revenue of the centz business until the equity is dropped onto centz token holders when the threshold is reached, yet all centz token holders hold 16% of the whole centz business....

It wouldn't be a Crypto ICO if it didn't value itself at some obscene 8-9 figure valuation...

Most of the ICO's done on the bitshares platform have done this as well, leading to the constant downward pressure on nearly every UIA.  Basically anyone who bought into any UIA has lost money in both BTS terms and Dollar terms.  This is a huge reason, among several others, that the BTS token gets sold off hard on every single pump to lower highs.
Why would that effect the BTS token?
btw, it's always hard to call a valley, but I think it's time to take of your BTS depression glasses;)

And put on the rose colored ones that have caused so many here to lose tons of cash?  Maybe when this dog stops getting sold on every pump I'll think about it.  Maybe when almost every single UIA doesn't look like a downward ski slope.

Reason why it pushes the BTS price down.  UIA's are distributed to all these people... many of who just want to sell on the first pump.  Because of this, the pump is small but they still want out.  The try to dump the tokens for bts, then try to dump the BTS of btc.  Because there is a lack of new blood in BTS, and because most of the supporters here have nothing left to invest, there is no buy liquidity.  It can be seen in nearly every order book.
Sorry, but your explanation lacks an independent first reason that is not the same reason BTS would go down without the UIA tokens as well.

Lets try this again...

1. A third party creates a UIA in the BTS Ecosystem.... Lets call it SCAM.UIA
2. Third party promotes SCAM.UIA, saying it the key to decentralized, deregulated, liberty for all, fortunes
3. In order to get in on this wonderful investment, you need to send DOLLLARS or BITCOIN to this third party
4. The third party then sends you a whole bunch of shiny new SCAM.UIA tokens

So lets review what has happened so far.  The scammer has created a token out of thin air and sold it to you for real currency or bitcoin.  You are hoping that he will take that money and create something wonderfully profitable and then distribute the money back to you via buy back or dividends.

Unfortunately....

5.  Once the SCAM.UIA tokens are distributed, all the investors are locked into the BTS ecosystem.
6.  All these investors have lots of initial "paper" wealth. But SCAM.UIA's trading book is extremely thin.
7.  Some of the original SCAM.UIA buyers wanted to sell on the first pop, but the books are too thin
8.  The books are too thin because there is not enough BTS holders, who were not involved in SCAM.UIA's ICO, willing to buy SCAM.UIA on the open market
9.  Original investors start selling SCAM.UIA because there was no initial pop and barely any buy orders on the books.
10.  All of a sudden the trading book for SCAM.UIA is loaded with sells with hardly any buy orders.
11.  This leads to steady sell pressure on SCAM.UIA.  Many of these investors who are selling SCAM.UIA have no interest of being in the BTS ecosystem, holding BTS, or using the DEX.
12.  What are these uninterested investors who just received BTS for their SCAM.UIA going to do??? That's right! SELL THEIR NEWLY ACQUIRED BTS!
13.  What do they sell it for??? bitcoin, ethereum, or fiat.
14.  What does selling BTS for fiat do to the price of BTS?? Causes it to decline.

These 14 steps have happened with the majority of the UIA's issued on the BTS platform.  Unless a UIA creator starts making a profit and buys back bts on the open market with his fiat profit, he has in essence taken energy out of the system.  The UIA creators, especially the big ones that raise a ton of money, put an incredible amount of stress on the tiny amount of traders who use the DEX.  If the UIA is going to stay profitable the DEX traders need to provide buy support.  Problem is there is not enough traders with excess capital to provide this support.     

Offline GChicken

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2017, 11:30:52 am »
If we could encourage trading in BTC or Open.BTC and leave BTS for fees, platform operations (issue account/ assets etc) and smart coin trading and issuance / collateral do you think the net result would be positive for the price of BTS.

Any ideas how we could accomplish something like this?

One of the great benefits of Bitshares is being able to start a project and allow trading instantly without any troubles of getting listed on a EX etc. Seems if we had less liquidity on the DEX for BTS this would actually be a good thing.

Do you think Projects like Bitgate and Bitkapital could help in this regard by means of their gateway service, converting users fiat into Bitcoin on the platform; providing higher amounts of wealth stored in BTC and increasing the number of new investors.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 11:34:57 am by GChicken »

Offline santaclause102

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2017, 05:21:31 pm »

9.  Original investors start selling SCAM.UIA because there was no initial pop and barely any buy orders on the books.
10.  All of a sudden the trading book for SCAM.UIA is loaded with sells with hardly any buy orders.
11.  This leads to steady sell pressure on SCAM.UIA.  Many of these investors who are selling SCAM.UIA have no interest of being in the BTS ecosystem, holding BTS, or using the DEX.
12.  What are these uninterested investors who just received BTS for their SCAM.UIA going to do??? That's right! SELL THEIR NEWLY ACQUIRED BTS!
13.  What do they sell it for??? bitcoin, ethereum, or fiat.
14.  What does selling BTS for fiat do to the price of BTS?? Causes it to decline.
[member=23744]lil_jay890[/member] Thanks for the write up, having read it I think you have a point. I was critical because it seemed as if the ability in Bitshares to issue ICO tokens would always be negative for the BTS price. There is another side to it too though: If the UIA would be undervalued after the IPO, all after-IPO investors would need to buy BTS in order to buy the UIA which would be good for the BTS price.

Also there is the effect of a generally bearish or bullish BTS market. A bearish BTS market would make those that sold their ICO token for BTS, sell their BTS for Bitcoin like you said. If it's bullish though, holding BTS would be encouraged.

Overall I we can conclude:
(-) Creating downward pressure on BTS price: Overpriced ICO, General bearish BTS market.
(+) Creating upward pressure on BTS price: Underpriced ICO, General bullish BTS market.
(+ -) If there is one negative and one positive factor they cancel each other out.

If we could encourage trading in BTC or Open.BTC and leave BTS for fees, platform operations (issue account/ assets etc) and smart coin trading and issuance / collateral do you think the net result would be positive for the price of BTS.
I think that wouldn't help too much - as long as BTS (as opposed to open.btc) has the highest liquidity on external exchanges vs BTC -  since the ICO investor who wants to get back to BTC or fiat will sell BTS on external exchanges.

What would help is if ICOs would not have these ridiculous valuations which bring them close to being a scam. The only solution I see is to have ICOs that don't set valuations of their token market cap, but have a price discovery, there are two options I know of:
1) Either dividing all ICO tokens among all investors
2) Or the AGS model where 1/200th of the tokens sold are distributed among all investors who sent money on day 1 of 200 days. The same on day 2 and 3 etc...

So, there may actually be a conflict of interests since Openledger wants to maximize the token market cap/valuation of their customer's (Centz) ICO while it would be good for the BTS price to have the opposite.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 05:29:59 pm by santaclause102 »

Offline JonnyB

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2017, 06:03:32 pm »
I agree most of the ICOs are way overpriced but nobody is forcing anyone to buy in and everyone should do their own due dilligence.

I think it would be better for the ICO to be done in OPEN.BTC for 2 reasons.
1.) ronny makes more money on OPEN.BTC trades (0.2%)
2.) BTC is a well understood liquid market

But at the end of the day its up to ronny to do whatever he likes.

We can't blame free market traders for BTS price not going up.
I run the @bitshares twitter handle
twitter.com/bitshares

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: CENTZ CROWDSALE - Billion dollar giftcard industry on the blockchain
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2017, 06:31:59 pm »

9.  Original investors start selling SCAM.UIA because there was no initial pop and barely any buy orders on the books.
10.  All of a sudden the trading book for SCAM.UIA is loaded with sells with hardly any buy orders.
11.  This leads to steady sell pressure on SCAM.UIA.  Many of these investors who are selling SCAM.UIA have no interest of being in the BTS ecosystem, holding BTS, or using the DEX.
12.  What are these uninterested investors who just received BTS for their SCAM.UIA going to do??? That's right! SELL THEIR NEWLY ACQUIRED BTS!
13.  What do they sell it for??? bitcoin, ethereum, or fiat.
14.  What does selling BTS for fiat do to the price of BTS?? Causes it to decline.
[member=23744]lil_jay890[/member] Thanks for the write up, having read it I think you have a point. I was critical because it seemed as if the ability in Bitshares to issue ICO tokens would always be negative for the BTS price. There is another side to it too though: If the UIA would be undervalued after the IPO, all after-IPO investors would need to buy BTS in order to buy the UIA which would be good for the BTS price.

Also there is the effect of a generally bearish or bullish BTS market. A bearish BTS market would make those that sold their ICO token for BTS, sell their BTS for Bitcoin like you said. If it's bullish though, holding BTS would be encouraged.

Overall I we can conclude:
(-) Creating downward pressure on BTS price: Overpriced ICO, General bearish BTS market.
(+) Creating upward pressure on BTS price: Underpriced ICO, General bullish BTS market.
(+ -) If there is one negative and one positive factor they cancel each other out.

If we could encourage trading in BTC or Open.BTC and leave BTS for fees, platform operations (issue account/ assets etc) and smart coin trading and issuance / collateral do you think the net result would be positive for the price of BTS.
I think that wouldn't help too much - as long as BTS (as opposed to open.btc) has the highest liquidity on external exchanges vs BTC -  since the ICO investor who wants to get back to BTC or fiat will sell BTS on external exchanges.

What would help is if ICOs would not have these ridiculous valuations which bring them close to being a scam. The only solution I see is to have ICOs that don't set valuations of their token market cap, but have a price discovery, there are two options I know of:
1) Either dividing all ICO tokens among all investors
2) Or the AGS model where 1/200th of the tokens sold are distributed among all investors who sent money on day 1 of 200 days. The same on day 2 and 3 etc...

So, there may actually be a conflict of interests since Openledger wants to maximize the token market cap/valuation of their customer's (Centz) ICO while it would be good for the BTS price to have the opposite.

So here's the rub... Have you ever seen an ICO undervalue itself?  I haven't.  Like you say most valuations are completely insane.

I agree that if BTS was in a bull market and UIA's were being issued undervalued, we would see general price appreciation in BTS.   Problem is 99% of ICO's are overvalued.  Until something is done to limit the UIA's creator ability to suck liquidity and value out of the system, the bearish circle will stay in place.  Hence every BTS price rise being sold.