Author Topic: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow  (Read 6075 times)

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Offline Digital Lucifer

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2019, 05:25:22 am »
voted refund400K.

it's time to control the inflation of BTS.

This move is nothing good for people around this network, its structure, stability or future.

a) The worker that is supporting research on BitAssets is gone.
b) Infrastructure worker that holds 20+ API is gone.
c) bitshares.org worker is gone and 4 people are living of it. As full-time employees which that budget salaries are bread&butter for them, including myself.
d) all event conferences will be cancelled and all the funds that are paid already will be lost.

I can go through entire alphabet for the rest of the workers, but I'm not planning to.

If your wish is to completely destroy BitShares and chase away this small amount of good people/development we have around, please carry on.

If you wish something better for BitShares, please stop making moves that are against good people of this Consensus.


Chee®s
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 05:30:48 am by Digital Lucifer »
Milos (DL) Preocanin
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2019, 06:09:16 am »
From my side this is not a permanent action, perhaps it will last at least several weeks.

I'd like to support good projects, but actually we need to review the workers and control the budget, especially in bear market, for long time the inflation from workers is too high and out of control, if we continue to let things be like this, I don't think BTS has a good future.

another point is that the action is mainly done by cn-vote, which is a multisig proxy in China community, all the votings  are decided by themselves.

sorry for the inconvenience.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 06:14:57 am by bitcrab »

Offline Digital Lucifer

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2019, 06:15:49 am »
This is not a permanent action, perhaps it will last at least several weeks.

I'd like to support good projects, but actually we need to review the workers and control the budget, especially in bear market, for long time the inflation from workers is too high and out of control, if we continue to let things be like this, I don't think BTS has a good future.

another point is that the action is mainly done by cn-vote, which is a multisig proxy in China community, all the votings  are decided by themselves.

This is reality:

There is no several weeks that these workers will survive:

- bitshares.org
- Decentralized 2019
- NABTS Conference

Now to be more clear.

If

- bitshares.org doesnt see funding by end of the current week, all services around it will be terminated including complete DNS structure of the domain. There will be no DEX, no website, no emails, no news.bitshares.org and all the authors will vanish due to missing payments.
I have no intentions to borrow money again just to stay around network and help BitShares grow, because certainly my pockets are not any deeper for the past 19 months of work, but debts are.
- Decentralized 2019 had serious downtime payment and if ends up in being underfunded that money will be gone.
- NABTS Conference, as escrow (Institute) who is legally responsible for signed agreement we do have some legal responsibility to respect it.

I agree we need management, but not in hostile way like others do. Playing politics means to sit down and talk together on possible solutions, not just act as we believe its the best fit.

hope you understand my position well

P.S. I will try to setup a witness or two to compensate bitshares.org worker in the meantime, but I don't see any other solution to this matter. You as a holder should be aware that 86k USD for entire year of development, seo, marketing, content writing was VERY TIGHT BUDGET in the first place, but was allowed by escrow/holders, so we already did more than we should from the day one. This is not first time refund400k is keeping it off this year and we can't afford another period of being inactive. I don't have to remind you that worker already suffered many months of devaluated salaries due to another hostile forcing of BSIP42 through witnesses at the time.

Chee®s
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 06:22:40 am by Digital Lucifer »
Milos (DL) Preocanin
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2019, 06:20:52 am »
bitshares.org will be voted up one hour later.

Offline Digital Lucifer

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2019, 06:23:49 am »
bitshares.org will be voted up one hour later.

Many thanks. Please keep in mind few other workers that are actually important for network and can't survive loss of funds/inactivity.

Chee®s
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2019, 11:29:01 am »
it's time to control the inflation of BTS.
Do you guys actually know the inflation (percentage wise) of BitShares?
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline roelandp

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2019, 12:44:17 pm »
Crossposting from telegram group, my response about this refund worker change: (copy paste)

... this rigorous step to "cut off" many projects many in the middle of their payouts, will mean personal losses for individuals.

ofcourse it's the way how bitshares chain can work, but seeing involvement of so many people and organisations, and time spent, and then just decide to make this move, is a drastic kill switch, with a lot of casualties. There are no winners with this move, only unrest. IMHO workers should be unvoted if the work is not on par with the promises. Not by killing of projects in the middle of their funding. The signal is not good for people who would want to help BTS further through a worker proposal, it brings a lot of uncertainty.

When looking at SteemFest worker - was/is only a small worker, will survive without the BTS support - really meant to be a promotional worker for BTS, but the other bigger initiatives are more dependent on these bigger funded partnerships. Or for example the Wirex integration, instant plus for bitshares, especially thanks to our fast confirmation times, down the drain.

AFAI understood the BTS worker proposal system as always meant to be to develop the chain, promote the chain and support the chain.

Yes bts has a low satoshi price, but look what satoshi gets you compared to 2 years ago.

========

Please find all details about the SteemFest worker proposal here -

Offline bitcrab

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2019, 02:33:31 pm »
it's time to control the inflation of BTS.
Do you guys actually know the inflation (percentage wise) of BitShares?
anything hard to understand?

Offline biophil

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2019, 03:50:26 pm »
From my side this is not a permanent action, perhaps it will last at least several weeks.

Without certainty regarding funding for the 201907-uccs-research-project worker, I will soon be forced to move the PhD student to a different project and cease our development of simulations and analysis for BitShares. It costs approximately $37k-$40k to support the student for one year (this does not include travel funding and any funds for myself), but the worker so far has only collected about $15k.

What are your requirements for reversing your votes for the research project and the refund worker? I'd be very happy to provide more information about my research project to help change your mind (and the minds of the cn-vote team).
Support our research efforts to improve BitAsset price-pegging! Vote for worker 1.14.204 "201907-uccs-research-project."

Offline xeroc

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2019, 10:00:36 am »
it's time to control the inflation of BTS.
Do you guys actually know the inflation (percentage wise) of BitShares?
anything hard to understand?

Na. I just meant if you guys know that the inflation is less than 3% even with all the worker being voted in:
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline bench

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2019, 10:29:18 am »
@biophil
We need people, who take actions with sure instinct and don't do several years research with uncertainty.

Bitcrab already did the right thing by reducing MCR, MSSR and introducing a GS protection.

We have a lot of other good ideas here, which needs a review:
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues

Why do you ignore https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/182 ?

@xeroc
Our reserve pool is limited, inflation needs to be around 0%.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 11:23:37 am by bench »

Offline xeroc

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2019, 12:23:43 pm »
@xeroc
Our reserve pool is limited, inflation needs to be around 0%.
We had that between 2015 and 2017, look where it brought us ..
Look what changed after voters started spending money for good.

I don't necessarily say we should through out money easily, but a 3% inflation rate is really really low compared to other cryptocurrencies which even raised millions through an ICO.
If you can find devs that work for free, great, bring them on!
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Offline Digital Lucifer

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2019, 04:33:39 pm »
@xeroc
Our reserve pool is limited, inflation needs to be around 0%.
We had that between 2015 and 2017, look where it brought us ..
Look what changed after voters started spending money for good.

I don't necessarily say we should through out money easily, but a 3% inflation rate is really really low compared to other cryptocurrencies which even raised millions through an ICO.
If you can find devs that work for free, great, bring them on!

Nobody can work for free or its willing to do so. Believe here would be beneficial if all the workers would be able to provide more transparent, often, vivid reports how on their progress that how on payouts.

Also, by having in mind that 90% of liquidity and activity is bitCNY on blockchain, maybe we should hire someone as hub/bridge to keep the translations/communications between workers and Chinese community for more and better understanding.

I have "thrown knives" at bitcrab numerous times why he is not voting on other workers, but then realized that even my own workers are not having:

a) Chinese version of the worker itself
b) Chinese translation of the reports/issues around the same
c) and that I lack on regular reporting in general (too busy and far under needed resources for that - but no excuse and ill keep trying)

so, bottom line i've been ignorant myself in terms of respect to Chinese community. Apologies for it.

Maybe a solution would be to create more rules on workers/committee/witnesses regarding reporting and transparency that is missing for quite a few since 2017 still to this day.

I do agree with are too chaotic to be followed and understood properly by outsiders or even our own holders and community + most of the stuff looks like it happens behind the scenes before West or East gets a proper info on it, just due to language barrier.

Apart from escrow from BBF and very transparent accounting, there was no public updates on workers apart from Wallet UI regularly and few other on few occasions. Again, including myself and my own workers.

Maybe i'm off topic, but I really tried hard to understand and explore the entire reasoning of this, and this is far that my brain goes...

Hopefully someone will shad more light in order to point me to the right direction if i'm going sideways with this talk.

Chee®s
Milos (DL) Preocanin
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Move Institute - RN: 2098555000
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2019, 02:18:39 am »
From my side this is not a permanent action, perhaps it will last at least several weeks.

Without certainty regarding funding for the 201907-uccs-research-project worker, I will soon be forced to move the PhD student to a different project and cease our development of simulations and analysis for BitShares. It costs approximately $37k-$40k to support the student for one year (this does not include travel funding and any funds for myself), but the worker so far has only collected about $15k.

What are your requirements for reversing your votes for the research project and the refund worker? I'd be very happy to provide more information about my research project to help change your mind (and the minds of the cn-vote team).

I voted this worker, but I am not sure cn-vote can support it, BTS just experienced a price falling down, which make things even worse.

Offline bitcrab

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Re: Proxy: bitcrab - make the ecosystem grow
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2019, 02:46:18 am »
@xeroc
Our reserve pool is limited, inflation needs to be around 0%.
We had that between 2015 and 2017, look where it brought us ..
Look what changed after voters started spending money for good.

I don't necessarily say we should through out money easily, but a 3% inflation rate is really really low compared to other cryptocurrencies which even raised millions through an ICO.
If you can find devs that work for free, great, bring them on!

In China investors keep on leaving BTS.

I even received death threat before the DEVCON in Shanghai, because someone invested a lot in BTS after one of my public speech but lost so much.

I am not saying this threat is reasonable or I fear of that, but we need to care the investors' experience.

generally speaking, our people care too much on getting money via worker proposal, but care so little on how to make the ecosystem healthy and sustain the BTS price.

one reason of the bad BTS price is the bad bitUSD status, in current status, bitUSD holders can just wait and buy as much BTS as they want after a big falling down of price.

we need to incentivize bitUSD minting and make the margin call orders disappear ASAP.

I tried a lot to lobby the community to support to change USD MCR to 1.5, I beg you, I beg OL, I beg BEOS... but everyone rejected to support.

Why? Why? Why? you guys do not want to see a healthy bitUSD? you guys just enjoy selling BTS from worker proposals without caring how can we make the BTS price sustainable?

if BTS price fall to 0, no worker will make sense.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 06:19:55 am by bitcrab »