Author Topic: Ah so you're not so bullish on bts anymore?  (Read 3322 times)

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Offline karnal

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A bigger source of value is smartcoins.
You need BTS to issue them.
Demand for smartcoins should result in demand for BTS.

Something tells me that when private transactions finally arrive, sprinkled with some good marketing / raising awareness from us, will result in much higher demand for smartcoins.

All other crypto-communities would benefit from storing profits in bitUSD and other smartcoins.
Wow
How many traders are out there who would take profits in USD if they didn't have to give ID

Indeed. This stuff could be cryptoland's bank, but people are naturally reluctant to store their loot under a named account using software that has no built-in proxy support (tor - and yes, relatively easy to work around, IF you're technically inclined.. which most people are not) with full transparency.

"Here Mister Thief [and I don't mean the government, altough, that too :D], look at my 300k in bitUSD, I login from IP A.B.C.D, have a great day!"

Offline Permie

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A bigger source of value is smartcoins.
You need BTS to issue them.
Demand for smartcoins should result in demand for BTS.

Something tells me that when private transactions finally arrive, sprinkled with some good marketing / raising awareness from us, will result in much higher demand for smartcoins.

All other crypto-communities would benefit from storing profits in bitUSD and other smartcoins.
Wow
How many traders are out there who would take profits in USD if they didn't have to give ID
JonnyBitcoin votes for liquidity and simplicity. Make him your proxy?
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Offline karnal

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A bigger source of value is smartcoins.
You need BTS to issue them.
Demand for smartcoins should result in demand for BTS.

Something tells me that when private transactions finally arrive, sprinkled with some good marketing / raising awareness from us, will result in much higher demand for smartcoins.

All other crypto-communities would benefit from storing profits in bitUSD and other smartcoins.

Offline Permie

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JonnyBitcoin votes for liquidity and simplicity. Make him your proxy?
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Offline renkcub

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Is the amount of "fees" or burned BTS or whatever it is, tracked somewhere? curious ;D

Offline Stan

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A bigger source of value is smartcoins.
You need BTS to issue them.
Demand for smartcoins should result in demand for BTS.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline intelliguy

BTS has value, because in order to trade on the dex, you consume BTS for transaction fees.

BTS also acts like it's own currency, most UIA have a BTS->UIA market, so BTS will always have value.  The more people that use the DEX, the more in demand BTS will be...

Is this simplistic answer correct?
I'm @intelliguy on steemit. I usually get things right (or so they tell me), follow me there if you want to see more. Tips accepted to bitshares user: intelliguy-bts  (I'm a lifetime member because I trust in the Bitshares ecosystem)

Offline renkcub

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remind me why BTS has value - does it get a fee for traders on the dex, can it stake, is it deflationary, how does owning BTS earn you more funds?

Offline Permie

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I'm making a Step By Step Guide on how Crypto-Traders currently using centralized exchanges can switch to BitShares.
And outlining the issues limiting BitShares in attracting these customers: technical issues , UX issues, lack of instructions/guides, fiat-infrastructure, lack of trading pairs, etc


Quote from: MarkoPaasila
link=topic=23867.msg303665#msg303665 date=1490000541
The momentum is clearly coming back, but you are certainly right in that it will take years to get "early adopters" in. This is still the phase where most users are "innovator" types.
I think the timescale is highly dependent on the actions of the bitshares innovators. (i.e marketing) Lot's of the product capability is already here

Coming back to the forums after a long absence I am very aware how little documentation there is on how to actually USE the product. I know the whitepaper, the technical stuff, and the use-cases for bitshares, but I could not explain how to use or trade on the DEX.

I think the new customers that are coming to the DEX are coming to trade. They want to know how to use it.
Does your average crypto-trader use BitShares? Do they even know it exists and isn't vaporware?
I highly doubt it.

Why aren't they? Centralized exchanges carry HUGE RISK!!! and you have to look after your fiat money, enter bank details, wait business days, agree to draconian regulations, etc, etc

Short (1min56) BitShares DEX/OpenLedger intro vide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG_XiOdbum8

====================================================================

Why aren't crypto-traders flooding to bitshares?

What is the step by step process of them leaving a centralized exchange and switching to BitShares?

STEP BY STEP GUIDE TO MIGRATE TO BITSHARES FROM A CENTRALIZED EXCHANGE


#1 Opening and Securing a BitShares hot wallet using OpenLedger with access to the DEX
Quote
Open a private, secure, decentralized account at https://openledger.io/create-account.
Ensure that the instructions are followed to the letter, and keep your backup secure

#2 Creating and Securing a BitShares cold wallet for long term storage. Paper wallet
Quote
[Outdated Paper Wallet Instructions: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17114.0.html]

#3 Traders then want to transfer their wealth from the centralized exchange into the BitShares DEX.
They can do this in 2 ways:
Quote
                FIAT: They transfer fiat from the centralized exchange to OpenLedger. [Information required: How much are the fees? What is the total % loss of wealth due to using fiat bank-bank transfers?Fiat is a competitor. We need to show how much bitshares beats them on price. How much fiat do the crypto-traders want to move? $10? $1,000? $10,000? $100,000? Does the bank-transfer fiat-method have enough liquidity to facilitate this transfer method? I think yes.]

Quote
                bitUSD The crypto-trader buys bitUSD on their centralized exchange. They then send this bitUSD to a BitShares Account that they own. [What is the total % loss of wealth converting bank-fiat into bitUSD via centralized-exchange? What is the fee to then transfer bitUSD to an OpenLedger account? What is the maximum amount of bitUSD that a crypto-trader can purchase for centralized-exchange-fiat? Is there $10,000 worth of bitUSD available at the market price? How much bitUSD can they buy without moving the price? If they do move the price, how much of their wealth does this cost them?]

#4 IS THERE ENOUGH LIQUIDITY?
Quote
Example-Trader has $10,000USD he would like to trade against bitcoin. Are there $10,000 worth of bitUSD available near the peg?

« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 06:45:56 pm by Permie »
JonnyBitcoin votes for liquidity and simplicity. Make him your proxy?
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Offline MarkoPaasila

The momentum is clearly coming back, but you are certainly right in that it will take years to get "early adopters" in. This is still the phase where most users are "innovator" types.

Offline Permie

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EDIT: I'm making a Step By Step Guide on how Crypto-Traders currently using centralized exchanges can switch to BitShares.

Ah so you're not so bullish on bts anymore?

I still like the fundamentals.

The price dropping to so low in sats doesn't suprise me either. Bitcoin is only just gaining legitimacy among the general public.
Bitcoin is bound to be having a few booms; more and more people are finding out about crypto and the only one that legitimate 'financial gurus' have written anything about is Bitcoin.

I think there are 2 steps to a fiat-using normie into becoming a bitshares-user.


Step 1

First, the most financially literate normies read their favourite financial newsletter; which tells them the hot stock picks of the month, best mortgages and potential speculative investment.
I've seen more and more of these financial newsletters discuss gold, and discuss bitcoin. Once these readers have a laymans understanding of bitcoin, they trust their newsletter guru and then they take the plunge to invest in bitcoin.
These financially literate normies then tell their family and friends about bitcoin. Why it's a good buy, how to use a paper wallet to store it.

Step 2

Some time passes, and the bitcoin holding financially-literate newcomers now have a grasp of the crypto economy. They can find analogies to the legacy-financial sector.
They see that the BitShares DEX is just an exchange with incredibly low usage fees, speed of transfer in, and out, of the exchange, and private key security.
They use BitShares to execute the trades they read about in their favourite financial newsletter.
These trades profit BitShares by way of increased liquidity on the DEX, tx fees, advertisement exposure (word of mouth),
"Hey, bts is great! I want to invest in the underlying asset. I've told all my trader friends about BTS."
Every human can benefit from using the DEX. A bank account, insurance fund, anti-fraud gift cards, ID, provable randomness, etc, etc.
Once the teachers of the world understand, everyone they teach will become crypto-literate. BitShares is a leading product in that market.
Maybe its 10 years away, maybe it's much sooner.

Crypto is an idea, ideas spread quickly.
All of the infrastructure already exists.

=================


I think BitShares' value is in its derivative exchange. A derivative exchange is a somewhat advanced feature of an economy. The crypto econonomy is still rather tiny on a global scale.
As I see it, all new investment in crypto is excellent news for all crypto holders.
Once within the crypto economy I believe more and more people will become crypto-literite and then make the nuanced decision of which crypto is best at performing a number of different tasks.
I think BitShares is by far the best choice for >50% of those financial services that customers will be looking for.

The Main Risks in not achieving this goal:

1) A competitor crypto builds a DEX that performs all market functions, at a 'just good enough' rate. I.E a shitter product that has a better marketing scheme.

2) BitShares depends on the human effort of it's shareholders.
If BTS Shareholders give up, or lay dormant long enough that a competitor has time to race ahead.

I'm confident that BitShares has the best product, the best management tools and the most freedom.

A lot of the momentum seems to have gone
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 07:38:38 pm by Permie »
JonnyBitcoin votes for liquidity and simplicity. Make him your proxy?
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