Author Topic: OpenLedger propose Bitshares 3.0 enhancements (NEW)  (Read 36527 times)

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Offline severo

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Number four. Number four, number four, number four.

Having a decentralized btc gateway would make bitshares utterly unique (though it is already), and position it against poloniex, etc. Though challenging, I have long thought this to be possible and desirable.

Why?

Real bitcoins... Not pegged bitcoins... Real bitcoins... Via the bitshares dex.

So I vote three times for number four.

You have the same, but more direct, with Atomic Swaps.

Bitcoin on chain allows for one thing that atomic swaps can't deliver. It gives us the possibility to use real BTC as collateral for smartcoins. That has two advatages: 1) Reduced risk for black swan events 2) Higher liquidity as currently only traders who want to go long BTS relative to the smartcoin will create smartcoin supply. When we have BTC on chain everyone who wants to go long BTC relative to the smartcoin can do so and deliver additional liquidity to smartcoin markets. Which is huge IMO, as there should be a lot more people willing to go long BTC opposed to long BTS.

With atomic swaps you could instantly change, without third parties, BTC to BTS thus increasing BTS liquidity. But in addition could be directly changed BTC to BitBTC, increasing the liquidity of this or another smartcoin.

I do not see why a decentralized Gateway would work better. Can you explain it better?

Offline Frodo

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Number four. Number four, number four, number four.

Having a decentralized btc gateway would make bitshares utterly unique (though it is already), and position it against poloniex, etc. Though challenging, I have long thought this to be possible and desirable.

Why?

Real bitcoins... Not pegged bitcoins... Real bitcoins... Via the bitshares dex.

So I vote three times for number four.

You have the same, but more direct, with Atomic Swaps.

Bitcoin on chain allows for one thing that atomic swaps can't deliver. It gives us the possibility to use real BTC as collateral for smartcoins. That has two advatages: 1) Reduced risk for black swan events 2) Higher liquidity as currently only traders who want to go long BTS relative to the smartcoin will create smartcoin supply. When we have BTC on chain everyone who wants to go long BTC relative to the smartcoin can do so and deliver additional liquidity to smartcoin markets. Which is huge IMO, as there should be a lot more people willing to go long BTC opposed to long BTS.

Offline Stan

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Personally, I fail to see why are you guys so excited about EOS. Right now bitshares is much more than just a DEX, it is full with other awesome feauters and that is what makes it the best thing in the market right now, it's a package deal. When EOS is released, it's gonna have all the features bitshares has and then some. Bitshares will be reduced to an app for dex on EOS. It's like if facebook would be excited for their whole platform to be reduced only to the messenger mobile app.
For now, whe have the tech and potential to become the new world currency, EOS will take away every advantage we have. It could be great if after the release EOS would be renamed to bitshares 3.0, and all bts exchanged for the new tokens but that's not gonna happen - it's a separate project.
 So why would this project "go to the moon" after EOS? Could anyone explain that to me?

Content, content, content.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline severo

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Why not add BEOS (Bitshares on EOS) option to the poll?
Seems this option has some support in the community.

See  "BEOS - Alternative proposal for Bitshares 3.0"
https://steemit.com/bitshares/@slavix/beos-bitshares-on-eos-alternative-proposal-for-bitshares-3-0

After much thought, I think it is the best option to climb Bitshares. We should support her.

Offline severo

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Number four. Number four, number four, number four.

Having a decentralized btc gateway would make bitshares utterly unique (though it is already), and position it against poloniex, etc. Though challenging, I have long thought this to be possible and desirable.

Why?

Real bitcoins... Not pegged bitcoins... Real bitcoins... Via the bitshares dex.

So I vote three times for number four.

You have the same, but more direct, with Atomic Swaps.

Offline faddat

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Number four. Number four, number four, number four.

Having a decentralized btc gateway would make bitshares utterly unique (though it is already), and position it against poloniex, etc. Though challenging, I have long thought this to be possible and desirable.

Why?

Real bitcoins... Not pegged bitcoins... Real bitcoins... Via the bitshares dex.

So I vote three times for number four.

Offline llildur

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 So why would this project "go to the moon" after EOS? Could anyone explain that to me?

It will not. It will become obsolete. Which is great, because then we can switch to better platform.

So why bother at all to try and improve it if it becomes obsolete next year?
I am seriously worried. I am a fan of bitshares and am doing what i can to contribute, but that's just disheartening.

This is a very valid concern. For now, there is no alternative to bitshares, and since we use it, we need to improve it to make it more useful.  But if you want to build a long term business on blockchain, you have to think twice, and at least have in plans how you migrate when another, more advanced blockchain comes out.
Bitshares will benefit from EOS in many aspects, EOS isn't intended as a new layer protocol, EOS is projected as the backbone of many of them allowing interconection between varios existing projects, some kind of sidechain VM,  if i'm correct then all the upgrades proposed here will be fullfilled in the future with EOS, Dan mentioned that EOS will be compatible with BTS, we can think about it as ETH compatible with ERC20 tokens,  but better  than that, we all know that BTS is by far the  most reliable blockchain in TPS, imagine  what can achieve a VM with this power multiplied at protocol level, even Raiden in ETH will pale at comparision, atomic swaps and such will be a piece of cake EOS will be the door to all the crypto sphere, a truly descentralized economy, OL will become another gate no the only gate to fiat world. Its a shame that we can´t have some feedback from EOS project or Dan at this point, so  only we can guess about it, after all BTS is first Dan's child.

Offline yvv

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 So why would this project "go to the moon" after EOS? Could anyone explain that to me?

It will not. It will become obsolete. Which is great, because then we can switch to better platform.

So why bother at all to try and improve it if it becomes obsolete next year?
I am seriously worried. I am a fan of bitshares and am doing what i can to contribute, but that's just disheartening.

This is a very valid concern. For now, there is no alternative to bitshares, and since we use it, we need to improve it to make it more useful.  But if you want to build a long term business on blockchain, you have to think twice, and at least have in plans how you migrate when another, more advanced blockchain comes out.

Offline Ravid

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 So why would this project "go to the moon" after EOS? Could anyone explain that to me?

It will not. It will become obsolete. Which is great, because then we can switch to better platform.

So why bother at all to try and improve it if it becomes obsolete next year?
I am seriously worried. I am a fan of bitshares and am doing what i can to contribute, but that's just disheartening.

Offline yvv

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 So why would this project "go to the moon" after EOS? Could anyone explain that to me?

It will not. It will become obsolete. Which is great, because then we can switch to better platform.

Offline severo

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On the other hand the integration of BTS in EOS seems to me an error and a proposal made by the investors of EOS to take advantage of the quality of BTS. I think it would be good if BTS copied some of the EOS technology that we can find useful, [1] but always from our own ecosystem. And if we become a smart EOS contract, I hope that at least they [2] do not wanting to give EOS investors our token for free, which I know most projects that are in ETH have not given their token to those who they had ETH. I insist that it seems a bit of a joke from EOS investors who have realized that their EOS token is worthless and want to see where they can steal. So if this is proposed I hope that the majority of people who like and appreciate the community do not vote in favor, if they voted to in favor I would of course leave the project.

Best regards.

I completely agree in [1] and [2] it seems to me that there are two of us who can see the naked king.

So why would this project "go to the moon" after EOS? Could anyone explain that to me?

And can you explain to me how EOS will go to the moon just  that it is a good platform? Investors are looking for interesting ICOS, but  there are already many people disillusioned. There are too many good projects that fail. By contrast, Bitshares has been running a small eternity perfectly, and with an acceptable capitalization.

If EOS wants to take advantage of the momentum of Bitshares, the best thing would be to work on some kind of integration that safeguards the interests of Bitshares investors and respects the most outstanding functionalities

Offline Ravid

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Personally, I fail to see why are you guys so excited about EOS. Right now bitshares is much more than just a DEX, it is full with other awesome feauters and that is what makes it the best thing in the market right now, it's a package deal. When EOS is released, it's gonna have all the features bitshares has and then some. Bitshares will be reduced to an app for dex on EOS. It's like if facebook would be excited for their whole platform to be reduced only to the messenger mobile app.
For now, whe have the tech and potential to become the new world currency, EOS will take away every advantage we have. It could be great if after the release EOS would be renamed to bitshares 3.0, and all bts exchanged for the new tokens but that's not gonna happen - it's a separate project.
 So why would this project "go to the moon" after EOS? Could anyone explain that to me?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 12:36:49 pm by Ravid »

Offline cborra8

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Hello and welcome to the updated poll (with possibility to change vote), related with OpenLedger team's proposal directed on making research and further features deployment on the BitShares network.


Detailed text of proposal:
(Previous discussion is available at: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,25179.15.html)

Dear Community Members,
Over the past two years, OpenLedger have played an important role in the development and establishment of the BitShares blockchain. Our high-qualified team of developers have been involved in dozens of third-party projects, acting as consultants and direct executors, continuously interacting with the community, developers, and traders to develop their products on the BitShares ecosystem.
Believing in the limitless possibilities of BitShares technology, it is OpenLedger’s vision to build projects for all uses, and truly develop ‘Blockchain as a Service’ (BaaS).

With a varied and rich experience in development using Graphene technology, as well as unmatched experience in working with Bitcoin, Ethereum, NXT, Omni, Waves blockchains, the key goal for the OpenLedger team will be to research ongoing cryptocurrency technological trends, as well as create new features, with subsequent implementation into the BitShares blockchain.
OpenLedger sincerely believe that BitShares is significantly underrated, from both economic and technological points of view in comparison to other crypto-platforms.

The strategic goal of OpenLedger is to create such a platform which will outpace the competition and allow for the creation of a truly decentralized and trusted digital economy. To achieve these goals, we would like to rely not only on our own views and ideas, but also on yours - the community opinion - and we invite you to like to take part and join us in this next stage of Bitshares’ evolution.

For the first stage of our mission, we want the community to vote for one, or more, of the following proposed ideas:

1) Implementing a virtual machine (like Ethereum’s’ Virtual Machine) into Graphene.
Once created, it will allow each user to produce smart contracts that work with assets and Smartcoins. The mechanisms of ICOs, trusted systems for the payments of dividends, and hosting various games/shares/lotteries, are examples of possible, future business cases.
By combining the strengths of the two platforms (the flexibility of ETH Smartcontracts and the speed/throughput of BitShares), they will get the symbiosis of the advantages and eliminate the weaknesses of these two platforms.

2) Implementation of the Atomic Swap mechanism.
Such a mechanism will allow the exchange of funds from one blockchain (Bitshares) to another (bitcoin, as the first), without any participation from third parties. In this case, BTS, MPA (bitUSD), and UIA can be used as bitshares funds.
Given the fact that there is only one real decentralized exchange, the ability to enter it from other blockchains, without any risks (technical and regulatory), and the participation of third parties (gateways), creates huge economic potential for the platform and the cryptocurrency economy.

3) Creation of Fee Backed Asset.
The idea of creating the FBA was proposed back in 2015, but was never implemented. (http://docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/user/fba.html)

In addition to implementing the mechanisms for automatic dividends distribution, it is proposed to discuss additional options for managing fees (the ability to impose payments on the issuer, change the fee rules for creating/closing the order, so that the person who closed the order pays 100% of the fees or 50/50).


We are hungry for constructive dialogue and invite all of you in the community to join us in this quest.
Our menu of ideas may not be complete and if a community member puts forward an idea proposing the implementation of an unlisted, and vital development, we will add this item to the  list (your vote can be changed throughout the voting process).

Phase two will include the tabulation process.
The results will be summed up either on November 9 (in the case of clear and straight voting), or on November 30 (if there will be active discussions or disputes). Whatever the positive outcome, we will prepare a detailed roadmap, which will outline the steps, deadlines, project participants, and financial calculations, which will in turn be presented to the community.

The third stage will be a full deployment on the test network and the environment, with the testing process performed by the team and any interested parties within the community.
Following this, we will start the integration into working nodes. If the changes are significant, we will perform the hard fork, provided that all witnesses agree.

At OpenLedger we believe that true progress and mass adoption of blockchain technology will only come from working together. Collaboration is the new tool for global progress and it should be encouraged at every level, so please join us as we explore the future of the BitShares blockchain.


The OpenLedger Development Teams behind this project are:

Key Management Team:

Ivan – The Initiator and Supervisor of this project, Ivan is deeply involved in strategic planning, research and communications. He has led the OpenLedger development from the first moments of its existence.
Email: ivan@openledger.io
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivan-bo-b7421a151/

Mikhail – As the Head of Project, Michael is an experienced Release and Project Manager. Before crypto, he was the head of the management department in Wargaming Inc. (World of Tanks/Warships/Planes creator).
Email: mikhail.makaruk@openledger.io
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikhail-makaruk-2022714a/

Key development team:

Alex – The Guardian of Project Servers, Alex is am experienced DevOps and Engineer, controlling more than 20 servers the world over. He has built a unique network of pools with gateways, nodes and wallets, and manages security, resistance and stability of server infrastructures.

Anton – The Team Lead of Project Development, Anthony is a professional Engineer, with 12 years of programming experience (C++, Python, Ruby, JS), dozens of executed projects (four of them during the previous year in the blockchain industry) and limitless enthusiasm. Antony coordinates the work of dev groups in different directions (core, gateway, etc.).

The list of connected developers will be formed closer to the beginning of the approved project.

So, make your choice and feel free to comment!

Good Morning,

I am a relatively new investor in this project, I have been learning new things about it for about 3 months, even though I knew it before.
When I started to see it more thoroughly, i really liked the project, until finally it is one of my favorite projects within the cryptocurrencies.

When I read about the proposal of Open Ledger of Bitshares 3.0 , I liked it enough, although a part does not finish liking me.
I have tried to read more about it and there are mainly two things that I would not like, one is "Creation of Fee Backed Asset", it seems completely unnecessary, the cryptocurrency that should be used as main in all aspects should be BTS and reduce its use with another it seems to me that it is not good for BTS investors.
The other improvement that I would not want would be the VM if this slowed the BTS net. As such it seems to me a pretty good improvement, but if it is going to reduce the speed of BTS it would be better to consider perhaps another option or study about how to implement it without reducing the speed of BTS.

In general if Open Ledger ensures that the speed of BTS will be maintained despite the VM, I will vote for that proposal, although I insist that I do not like the "Creation of Fee Backed Asset" part.

On the other hand the integration of BTS in EOS seems to me an error and a proposal made by the investors of EOS to take advantage of the quality of BTS. I think it would be good if BTS copied some of the EOS technology that we can find useful, but always from our own ecosystem. And if we become a smart EOS contract, I hope that at least they do not wanting to give EOS investors our token for free, which I know most projects that are in ETH have not given their token to those who they had ETH. I insist that it seems a bit of a joke from EOS investors who have realized that their EOS token is worthless and want to see where they can steal. So if this is proposed I hope that the majority of people who like and appreciate the community do not vote in favor, if they voted to in favor I would of course leave the project.

This is my opinion and my first comment, it seems excellent the work of the developers of the community and open ledger, who are working on the project, surely we reach soon a new historical high.

Best regards.

Offline severo

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In the short term cherry picking some improvements from EOS and integrating them into Bitshares 2 may make sense. Long term Bitshares 2 will not be able to compete with BEOS, as the latter will have a superior foundation with many significant advantages over Bitshares 2.


And what are those features that make EOS absolutely superior and essential? we should remember that the most capitalized currency has no relevant technical characteristics. I suspect that all those characteristics are beads and colored glasses to deceive the unwary.

Technically inferior technology can lead in capitalization, maybe even for a long time. However superior tech will succeed and will likely win out in the end. EOS is Dan Larimer's 3rd blockchain and is being built with lessons learned from the first two, Bitshares being the first.  EOS is a natural upgrade path for Bitshares.

Some of the most significant advantages BEOS will have over BTS 2:
  • Smart contract support
  • Compatibility with EOS Dapps
  • Massive scalability
  • Low latency (likely sub-second)
  • Free transfers

Do not lose sight of the fact that cryptos are used as an investment. As an investor I have clear the advantages of Bitshares: stable and self-guaranteed price currencies with which I can make backups of my investments. Coins that give 5% per year, a DEX own where no one can steal the coins. Instant transactions.

All this is easily understandable. From EOS I am clear the free transactions, but the rest I am not sure to fully understand, and how many of these functionalities would be used by 75% of investors.

It is possible, I do not doubt, that EOS is a magnificent platform, but that will not be enough to succeed if we do not perceive its advantages in a way as clear and honest as those of Bitshares.

Offline bitcoinerS

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In the short term cherry picking some improvements from EOS and integrating them into Bitshares 2 may make sense. Long term Bitshares 2 will not be able to compete with BEOS, as the latter will have a superior foundation with many significant advantages over Bitshares 2.


And what are those features that make EOS absolutely superior and essential? we should remember that the most capitalized currency has no relevant technical characteristics. I suspect that all those characteristics are beads and colored glasses to deceive the unwary.

Technically inferior technology can lead in capitalization, maybe even for a long time. However superior tech will succeed and will likely win out in the end. EOS is Dan Larimer's 3rd blockchain and is being built with lessons learned from the first two, Bitshares being the first.  EOS is a natural upgrade path for Bitshares.

Some of the most significant advantages BEOS will have over BTS 2:
  • Smart contract support
  • Compatibility with EOS Dapps
  • Massive scalability
  • Low latency (likely sub-second)
  • Free transfers
>>> approve bitcoiners