Author Topic: Bitshares at the cross roads  (Read 10015 times)

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Offline Digital Lucifer

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Should Bitshares community allow vote buying and concentration of voting power and are we fine with the consequences?

because Bitshares is already light years behind other projects out there in terms of development and infrastructure.

I believe that this is 100% inaccurate.

For the rest, ill not comment.

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Offline yvv

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Should Bitshares community allow vote buying and concentration of voting power and are we fine with the consequences?

It does not really matter anymore, because Bitshares is already light years behind other projects out there in terms of development and infrastructure. Of course, BTS whales have no choice but to continue to simulate vigorous activity to keep it alive, because it is a pain in the a$$ to withdraw millions BTS without crashing the price to zero, but this is all going to no where.
 

Offline abit

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What's the next rainfalls on staked BTS?
There is a skyfall.
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Offline R

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What's the next rainfalls on staked BTS?

Offline Stan

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We're just past the half way point of rainfall.  Still as much to be given away as has been given away to date!

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Stan

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Participating BTS shareholders are voluntarily giving their voting power to BEOS so that BEOS is enabled to integrate with bitshares.

Erm, no. They voluntarily lock up their BTS to receive shares from the raindrop.

If you join the BEOS telegram room you will find a room full of people who support the BEOS team and look forward to them using their voting power to vote in BSIPs for trustless gateways. Claiming that people are only interested in the rainfall is simply not true.

Claiming that every rainfall participant supports the BEOS voting chaos, or whatever other plans the BEOS team might have, is equally untrue.

You shouldn't be collecting rainfall if you don't support our efforts.
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Offline pc

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Participating BTS shareholders are voluntarily giving their voting power to BEOS so that BEOS is enabled to integrate with bitshares.

Erm, no. They voluntarily lock up their BTS to receive shares from the raindrop.

If you join the BEOS telegram room you will find a room full of people who support the BEOS team and look forward to them using their voting power to vote in BSIPs for trustless gateways. Claiming that people are only interested in the rainfall is simply not true.

Claiming that every rainfall participant supports the BEOS voting chaos, or whatever other plans the BEOS team might have, is equally untrue.
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Offline Crypto Kong

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Participating BTS shareholders are voluntarily giving their voting power to BEOS so that BEOS is enabled to integrate with bitshares.

Erm, no. They voluntarily lock up their BTS to receive shares from the raindrop.

If you join the BEOS telegram room you will find a room full of people who support the BEOS team and look forward to them using their voting power to vote in BSIPs for trustless gateways. Claiming that people are only interested in the rainfall is simply not true.

Offline matle85

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Basically to put in a WP to integrate BEOS with BTS. Yes it will have to be approved by the BTS community.


Is this the WP for the trustless bridge and if so is there a timeline for it?

Offline Stan

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I still have reservations about BEOS, primarily due to the favorable attitudes I've read concerning regulatory compliance by members of the BEOS team. I have much respect for Stan, OnceUponaTime , MichaelX and Dan Notestein, but I also see their track record of mistakes. We' all have one, we're all only human, and mistakes can't be eliminated. However, when mistakes become a pattern and ignored, aren't seen as a lesson to learn from, something must be done to raise awareness to a higher level, to stop the cycle.

For the record I have not participated in the BEOS rainfall. I am on the fence about it and I would hate to succumb to manipulation or bribery. It is very difficult to know the actual agenda of all the players, especially those behind the scenes, so abstaining is the best way I know to avoid that.

The main question is, is the BEOS voting power being used to restore the original disruptive, decentralized vision that BitShares was created for, or to dominate and control stakeholders towards a legally regulated, personal freedom limiting ecosystem the uninformed masses will accept? Is this a slippery slope towards incremental control, or the restoration of Austrian / free market economic principles that provide an ecosystem with integrity, accountability and promote personal financial freedom?

One question you need to ask yourself, if you don't want to see kyc and increasing regulator influence on BitShares, is whether the BTS held by those in control of BEOS deposits was intended from the start to be used to do more than facilitate the integration of BitShares and EOS, or, whether such integration requires kyc and fundamental regulatory changes to BitShares. If you don't care about that, feel free to put your head back in the sand and pay no attention to this question. If you do care I urge you to choose your course of action wisely.

I have observed the centralization of control through voting proxies, which was established to address the problem of voter apathy. It did solve the problem of apathy that paralyzed development and growth, but at the expense as time went on of centralizing control. I was not happy with the changes  imposed on BPs wrt price feeds. BSIP42 was a disaster in my mind, particularly in how it was thrust into production, and without any type of report or written conclusion to summarize the results of those "experiments". We now see a downward pressure on MCR from 175% down to 160%, rather than holding individuals personally responsible for their own collateral management. The global MCR value for an asset should be set with investor's safety, not profit as it's primary criteria. I see the influence of Keynesian economic advocates and if those are allowed to prevail we will end up with the same "brink of disaster" situation as mainstream financial markets are experiencing right now.

Perhaps we need more centralized planning to restore the vision and replace the Keynesian perspective with the superior Austrian approach. Ofc if that is to be done the centralized control must be trustworthy and be committed to doing that. I myself have more trust in those I specifically mentioned above, than I do with bitcrab and those who defer to his proxy.That's not to say I totally trust them, b/c of the regulatory attitudes they have expressed, especially wrt kyc policies. 

Whichever way you decide, the choice is currently yours to make. Choose wisely.

I can assure you that we have NO intention to change or centralize BitShares in any way.  Never KYC on BitShares.  That's its key strength.  We don't even have KYC to hold BEOS, although we do plan to have some assets that are compliant with the jurisdictions in which they need to operate. We are much more likely to put BEOS into international jurisdictions where users are free from regulatory overreach.  That's our biggest added value and its highly complementary to BitShares. BEOS is designed to layer on top of BitShares and add value to it while allowing folks who don't want that value to continue using BitShares as it is. 

So come over and get some BEOS while you still can, we've only given half of them away so far.

BEOS RAINDROP

- Powered by Blocktivity.info -

BEOS.COLD = 353,461,502 BTS
BEOS.GATEWAY = 8,751,761 BTS
TOTAL = 362,213,263 BTS

Which is 13.33 % of the total BTS supply

The raindrop would give you 7.5 BEOS/BTS

The average since beginning is 8.62 BEOS/BTS

Raindrop time consumed : 43/89 days
Raindrop time consumed : 48.31 %


« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 01:03:34 pm by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Stan

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us upgrading BitShares to a sidechain in the EOS universe

Is that your goal? Why didn't you say so in the rainfall terms?

How about asking people if they actually want that *before* you lure them out of their voting power?

We made this very clear from Day One in dozens of Steemit Posts and the White Paper and the beos.world website.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline pc

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Participating BTS shareholders are voluntarily giving their voting power to BEOS so that BEOS is enabled to integrate with bitshares.

Erm, no. They voluntarily lock up their BTS to receive shares from the raindrop.
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Offline alt

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BEOS is not "robbing" anything or anyone. Participating BTS shareholders are voluntarily giving their voting power to BEOS so that BEOS is enabled to integrate with bitshares. This will open up bitshares to the larger EOS community and bring value to both bitshares and BEOS.
what's your meanning about "they need voting power to enabled to integrate with bitshares"?
will this not be approved by other bitshares holders?
did this include vote in dead witness?
did this include vote in nobody known's commiittee?
did this include vote out others who didn't show loyal to stan?
All bull shit.
and this is why BEOS and the peoples who supportted BEOS's bull shit will lost my support.

Basically to put in a WP to integrate BEOS with BTS. Yes it will have to be approved by the BTS community.

We are voting in many witnesses that have shown interest or previous community witnesses that may be interested in coming back to BTS. We have had several good discussions with BP's as of late and hope to use our votes to further decentralize the witness structure.

What nobody knowns? We all know that the evangelist account is my committee account and godfather is stans. Other members of the community have different accounts for witness/bp/committee versus their personal accounts. No secret and not unknown.

Last - many people being voted for are not loyal to stan, some are eben outright HOSTILE to Stan, myself and BEOS - yet we continue to vote for them. So that negates that premise.

could you point out who said stan is the godfather of bts?
could you point out where is the commiittee application thread of godfather and evangelist?
and yes, I know many people being voted for are not loyal to stan, we known many dead witness be voted in by stan, sure dead account can't loyal to stan.
and can you tell me who is delegate.freedom, could you point out even one post of this account? could you explain why this nobody by supported instead of some guys from like openleger, bts.ai, bts++?
and can you point out any input from beos about the poll, for example: why they didn't support reduce mssr to 1.01, and after one day they change to support?
As I know, stan said anybody didn't give him BTS means didn't support beos, and didn't worth his support. this diffinitely means beos is agains the main bitshares community.

Offline michaelx

BEOS is not "robbing" anything or anyone. Participating BTS shareholders are voluntarily giving their voting power to BEOS so that BEOS is enabled to integrate with bitshares. This will open up bitshares to the larger EOS community and bring value to both bitshares and BEOS.
what's your meanning about "they need voting power to enabled to integrate with bitshares"?
will this not be approved by other bitshares holders?
did this include vote in dead witness?
did this include vote in nobody known's commiittee?
did this include vote out others who didn't show loyal to stan?
All bull shit.
and this is why BEOS and the peoples who supportted BEOS's bull shit will lost my support.

Basically to put in a WP to integrate BEOS with BTS. Yes it will have to be approved by the BTS community.

We are voting in many witnesses that have shown interest or previous community witnesses that may be interested in coming back to BTS. We have had several good discussions with BP's as of late and hope to use our votes to further decentralize the witness structure.

What nobody knowns? We all know that the evangelist account is my committee account and godfather is stans. Other members of the community have different accounts for witness/bp/committee versus their personal accounts. No secret and not unknown.

Last - many people being voted for are not loyal to stan, some are eben outright HOSTILE to Stan, myself and BEOS - yet we continue to vote for them. So that negates that premise.


Offline alt

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BEOS is not "robbing" anything or anyone. Participating BTS shareholders are voluntarily giving their voting power to BEOS so that BEOS is enabled to integrate with bitshares. This will open up bitshares to the larger EOS community and bring value to both bitshares and BEOS.
what's your meanning about "they need voting power to enabled to integrate with bitshares"?
will this not be approved by other bitshares holders?
did this include vote in dead witness?
did this include vote in nobody known's commiittee?
did this include vote out others who didn't show loyal to stan?
All bull shit.
and this is why BEOS and the peoples who supportted BEOS's bull shit will lost my support.