Author Topic: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)  (Read 1374 times)

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Offline bench

New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« on: October 19, 2018, 02:21:30 pm »
In this topic I want to discuss different ideas to prevent bad debt.

One idea was to handle margin positions depending on the collateral ratio.

Creating three groups for different ratios:
- 1.75>x>1.5: normal call price
- 1.5>x>1.25: reduced call price
- 1.25>x>1.00: sell to highest call order and reduce liquidity

What do you think ?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 02:25:43 pm by bench »
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Offline armin

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2018, 06:06:33 pm »
this is an even worse solution for shorters than the current one

Offline fractalnode

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2018, 08:45:03 pm »
in my opinion, we should redirect revenue from the transaction fee that is currently being transferred into the committee-trade account and return it to MPA Shorters (and MPA holders), at the same time we should start implementing BSIP 0019 and BSIP 0020. These features should be the heart of BitShares from the very beginning available to every user.

related thread
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26072.msg321168#msg321168
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 06:54:15 pm by FractalNode »

Offline bench

Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 02:13:57 pm »
@armin: You are right. Problem is liquidity reduction and lowering the feed price will also lower the MCR.

@FractalNode: You want to use fees to pay interest ?

We can archive market peg by changing at first:
1. MCR
2. MSQR
http://docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/user/dex-short.html

The difference of feed price and DEX price should be seen in context of EMA and DEX Price.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 09:34:36 pm by bench »
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Offline fractalnode

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2018, 04:34:42 pm »
@FractalNode: You want to use fees to pay interest ?

it would be necessary to make some calculations first, but yes
for everyone who keeps at least 100 bitUSD maybe more, and bitCNY of course also for bitAssets shorters 50/50
passive income is a growing trend in crypto space and will become more and more important. IMO it's time to start working to be in this circle
imagine at least 30% of unique accounts holding at least 100 bitUSD and 690 bitCNY and the effect it has on the BTS price

Quote
We can archive market peg by changing at first:
1. MCR
2. MSQR
http://docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/user/dex-short.html

The difference of feed price and DEX price should be seen in context of EMA and DEX Price.

I would not mess with those parameters as long as possible

Offline xeroc

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2018, 01:33:16 pm »
IMHO, those that go short with too little collateral shouldn't be bailed out by "profits" of everyone else.
Instead, I do believe they should be "punished" to an extend because they leave the bitasset at a risk by not maintaining their collateral.
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Offline Thom

Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2018, 04:18:26 am »
IMHO, those that go short with too little collateral shouldn't be bailed out by "profits" of everyone else.
Instead, I do believe they should be "punished" to an extend because they leave the bitasset at a risk by not maintaining their collateral.

Well said Xeroc!

I'm in total agreement. To do so actually rewards bad behavior by those who break the rules or don't care at all about the integrity of BitShares. Their priority is on something else (making money for themselves). Is that the type of person that should be rewarded?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 04:23:26 am by Thom »
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Offline binggo

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2020, 11:43:21 pm »
Ok, let's check the others how to design the stable coin, how to to prevent bad debt.

Maybe this can awaken someone.

MOV Stable Financial System

https://cdn.bytom.io/res/MOV-Stable-EN.pdf

Offline R

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2020, 01:20:25 pm »
Ok, let's check the others how to design the stable coin, how to to prevent bad debt.

Maybe this can awaken someone.

MOV Stable Financial System

https://cdn.bytom.io/res/MOV-Stable-EN.pdf
Another NON solution. The solution was global settlement. Stop evading the consequences of bad gambling. BSIP76 shames CNY on an international level.

Offline binggo

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2020, 10:35:17 pm »
Ok, let's check the others how to design the stable coin, how to to prevent bad debt.

Maybe this can awaken someone.

MOV Stable Financial System

https://cdn.bytom.io/res/MOV-Stable-EN.pdf
Another NON solution. The solution was global settlement. Stop evading the consequences of bad gambling. BSIP76 shames CNY on an international level.

The global settlement is not the solution, it's will give more worse result to the normal debtor and holder, bitgold,bitbtc,bitsilver had been global settlement very long time, it didn't solve any problems.

Bonds give a choice to holders of biassets, and didn't need to bear too much dangerous, help to solve the bad debts getting the interest from the Bonds, or just want to wait the market giving a choice or surprise.
feed price will still be normal price.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 10:37:09 pm by binggo »

Offline R

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2020, 11:41:39 pm »
Ok, let's check the others how to design the stable coin, how to to prevent bad debt.

Maybe this can awaken someone.

MOV Stable Financial System

https://cdn.bytom.io/res/MOV-Stable-EN.pdf
Another NON solution. The solution was global settlement. Stop evading the consequences of bad gambling. BSIP76 shames CNY on an international level.

The global settlement is not the solution, it's will give more worse result to the normal debtor and holder, bitgold,bitbtc,bitsilver had been global settlement very long time, it didn't solve any problems.

Bonds give a choice to holders of biassets, and didn't need to bear too much dangerous, help to solve the bad debts getting the interest from the Bonds, or just want to wait the market giving a choice or surprise.
feed price will still be normal price.

The consequence of global settlement already applies to bitasset holders; their held bitassets have depreciated significantly in value & they cannot be settled for the correct accurate value. Fixed feeds are not normal prices.

Offline binggo

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2020, 12:47:03 am »
The consequence of  global settlement already applies to bitasset holders; their held bitassets have depreciated significantly in value & they cannot be settled for the correct accurate value. Fixed feeds are not normal prices.

You misundertand something or not undertand something.

A bitasset is just like a country, now you shut down it, kill all the debtor(incloud healthy debtor),  people will choose to run away, no liquidity output, just make matters worse.

Global settlement is a very failed mechanism, it has been proved by the reality.

We should or must make a more better mechanism.


Offline R

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2020, 12:09:10 am »
The consequence of  global settlement already applies to bitasset holders; their held bitassets have depreciated significantly in value & they cannot be settled for the correct accurate value. Fixed feeds are not normal prices.

You misundertand something or not undertand something.

A bitasset is just like a country, now you shut down it, kill all the debtor(incloud healthy debtor),  people will choose to run away, no liquidity output, just make matters worse.

Global settlement is a very failed mechanism, it has been proved by the reality.

We should or must make a more better mechanism.
People are already running away from bitassets because they're SCAMS in their current state. Global settlement would have retained some resemblance of credibility, now BSIP76 proponents have zero credibility.

Fact is the bitassets are dead scamcoins, move onto new smartcoins which haven't been destroyed by loser gamblers.

Offline pstrident

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2020, 07:25:40 am »
the solution is individual margin calls before global settlement happens.... i sat with bad debt before the first GS and was never called i should have been forced to sell way before the system broke!!

Offline binggo

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Re: New mechanism to prevent bad debt (black swan)
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2020, 08:02:46 am »
The consequence of  global settlement already applies to bitasset holders; their held bitassets have depreciated significantly in value & they cannot be settled for the correct accurate value. Fixed feeds are not normal prices.

You misundertand something or not undertand something.

A bitasset is just like a country, now you shut down it, kill all the debtor(incloud healthy debtor),  people will choose to run away, no liquidity output, just make matters worse.

Global settlement is a very failed mechanism, it has been proved by the reality.

We should or must make a more better mechanism.
People are already running away from bitassets because they're SCAMS in their current state. Global settlement would have retained some resemblance of credibility, now BSIP76 proponents have zero credibility.

Fact is the bitassets are dead scamcoins, move onto new smartcoins which haven't been destroyed by loser gamblers.

Let's don't talk about the "scam" or something, focus on the topic.

Global settlement:

Bitbtc is already in Global settlement, let's check:

Reviving   
Auto Revive Price (without/with bids)   0.00004230 bitBTC/BTS / 0.00003467 bitBTC/BTS


Price Feed:                       0.00000258 bitBTC/BTS
DEX Market price:             0.00000903 bitBTC/BTS
Force Settlement Price:   0.00002417 bitBTC/BTS
CEX price:                        0.00000258 bitBTC/BTS

so...this is the problem, everyone had lost the motivation.
Market liquidity and confidence had lost.
Bitbtc holders and debtors were developing into a lose-lose situation.
Only hope is waiting the price rising.

BSIP76 has the same situation like Global settlement.
Market liquidity and confidence had lost.
lose-lose.
Only hope is waiting the price rising.

--------------------------------

Why can't we isolate the bad debts(which the Collateral Ratio <1), use the bonds and income of bitasset to handle it?

1. feed price still will be normal;
2. still can pledge;
1 and 2 will provide the motivation and liquidity
3. The hope will not only is waiting the price rising.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 08:50:37 am by binggo »