Author Topic: Global Settlement for BitUSD  (Read 1213 times)

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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Global Settlement for BitUSD
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2018, 10:01:55 am »
nobody doubt you have do much for Bitshare,
but it can't change the fact that after BSIP42, witness manipulation the feed price, sell the margin call at unreasonable price which lead to this blackswan event directely.
even now, they still sell the margin call orders at 4.2% higher than market price.
witness should just give the real price, if 10% punish for margin call order is too much, change it to 5%, 3%, 1%, what ever, but must have a profit so others can help eat the margin call orders.
now people need to pay 4.2% to help eat it , it's unreasonable.

I am not showing what I do for BTS, I am just showing there is also big possibility for black swan even without BSIP42.

you guys don't care whether smartcoins peg well, whether there can be enough smartcoin supply, whether smartcoin can be widely adopted as good stable coin. that's why you do not understand why BSIP42 comes out.








Offline severo

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Re: Global Settlement for BitUSD
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2018, 10:12:28 am »
And now what's gonna happen? at the moment it seems that the BitUSD quote with other assets remains. How will the situation evolve?

Offline alt

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Re: Global Settlement for BitUSD
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2018, 10:42:29 am »
nobody doubt you have do much for Bitshare,
but it can't change the fact that after BSIP42, witness manipulation the feed price, sell the margin call at unreasonable price which lead to this blackswan event directely.
even now, they still sell the margin call orders at 4.2% higher than market price.
witness should just give the real price, if 10% punish for margin call order is too much, change it to 5%, 3%, 1%, what ever, but must have a profit so others can help eat the margin call orders.
now people need to pay 4.2% to help eat it , it's unreasonable.

I am not showing what I do for BTS, I am just showing there is also big possibility for black swan even without BSIP42.

you guys don't care whether smartcoins peg well, whether there can be enough smartcoin supply, whether smartcoin can be widely adopted as good stable coin. that's why you do not understand why BSIP42 comes out.
yes there is always a posibility for black swan, but after change the margin call to only sell part of them, the posibility is very low already.
after BSIP42 begin, it's not a posibility, it's 100% percent for black swan because you guys want to sell margin call orders 5%, 10%, even 20% higher than market price.
it's rediculous to expect others help eat the margin call orders and pay more 5% percent.
 we always need to give a profit to others help get rid of the risk.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Global Settlement for BitUSD
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2018, 12:09:22 pm »
Since so many in here have no clue about what a global settlement is, let me enlighten you by pointing you to the right direction:

https://steemit.com/bitshares/@bitshares.fdn/how-global-settlements-work

Also, I am not willing to continue support insults and attacks on a personal level. Not against me, nor against any other member of that community. If you disagree with opinions, remove your vote. If you are not happy with how BitShares develops, obtain more voting power or sell and go somewhere else. I know that attacking people is much easier than working out things constructively, it really is.
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

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Re: Global Settlement for BitUSD
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2018, 01:28:09 pm »
If he had left BitUSD with no BSIP42, there will be no BlackSwan on BitUSD

To be fair, I think that with such a big downtrend a black swan on bitUSD might have happened even without BSIP-42.

Still, I think it is now proven that BSIP-42 increases the likelyhood of a black swan, due to margin calls not being eaten.

(I'm well aware that BSIP-42 can completely prevent a black swan if the witnesses keep the feed price "fake enough". This is cheating though, because it only hides the undercollaterlization from the blockchain. It will break the peg, and thus defeat the purpose of BSIP-42.)
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Offline abit

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Re: Global Settlement for BitUSD
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2018, 05:07:52 pm »
If he had left BitUSD with no BSIP42, there will be no BlackSwan on BitUSD

To be fair, I think that with such a big downtrend a black swan on bitUSD might have happened even without BSIP-42.

Still, I think it is now proven that BSIP-42 increases the likelyhood of a black swan, due to margin calls not being eaten.

(I'm well aware that BSIP-42 can completely prevent a black swan if the witnesses keep the feed price "fake enough". This is cheating though, because it only hides the undercollaterlization from the blockchain. It will break the peg, and thus defeat the purpose of BSIP-42.)

1. A peg can stand only if debts (at least the one with least collateral ratio) are fully backed. BSIP42 doesn't change this fact. That said, BSIP42 does have a limited effective range. GS doesn't lead to a peg either.

2. BSIP42 only takes effect when borrowing is enabled. That said, avoiding GS by feeding a fake price makes it easier for bitAssets to peg again when the market bounced up or the trend changed.

3. We're well aware that risks will accumulate if margin calls not being eaten. Although admittedly BSIP42 helped the risk accumulation to an extent, I still believe it's not fully due to BSIP42. Before BSIP42, E.G. on bitcrab's image, bitUSD has a more than 15% premium, to eat the margins which are hanging at -10% you still have to pay quite a bit more than market price.

BSIP42 can be tweaked to always let margins to be able to be eaten E.G. increasing MSSR at the same time when adjusting up feed price, the thing is, in a bear market, not that many bitcrabs who will eat margin calls at the cost of themselves. However, it seems many people just want to do nothing, rather than to improve something that doesn't work very well.

4. it's always easier to blame someone else. By doing nothing you won't do anything wrong, but you won't go forward either.
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Offline zhangweis

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Re: Global Settlement for BitUSD
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2018, 09:13:19 pm »

To be fair, I think that with such a big downtrend a black swan on bitUSD might have happened even without BSIP-42.

Still, I think it is now proven that BSIP-42 increases the likelyhood of a black swan, due to margin calls not being eaten.

(I'm well aware that BSIP-42 can completely prevent a black swan if the witnesses keep the feed price "fake enough". This is cheating though, because it only hides the undercollaterlization from the blockchain. It will break the peg, and thus defeat the purpose of BSIP-42.)

Well, if strictly executed as BSIP42, it might be much better than the current situation. But BSIP42 is just an excuse to manipulate the price feeds. What should be the price feed for BitCNY as per BSIP42 and what are/have been the price feeds? BSIP42 had been executed for some time, but as BitCNY was at a discount which conflicts shorter's interests, the shorter-controlled feed manipulation was no longer BSIP42.

I don't think witnesses are using BSIP42 for price feeds. BSIP42 had been dead. The proposers themselves killed BSIP42.
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Global Settlement for BitUSD
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2018, 06:53:19 am »
3. We're well aware that risks will accumulate if margin calls not being eaten. Although admittedly BSIP42 helped the risk accumulation to an extent, I still believe it's not fully due to BSIP42. Before BSIP42, E.G. on bitcrab's image, bitUSD has a more than 15% premium, to eat the margins which are hanging at -10% you still have to pay quite a bit more than market price.

BTS price limit the smartcoin supply, if the demand overcome the supply, either premium or system risk will arise.

will everything be OK if we adopt the dynamic MCR solution to replace BSIP42? seems not.

in MCR solution, while demand for smartcoin arise, MCR need to be adjusted downwards, say, if MCR reach 1.2, it will be easy to touch black swan if there is rapid fall of BTS price.

Offline clockwork

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Re: Global Settlement for BitUSD
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2018, 07:36:58 am »
3. We're well aware that risks will accumulate if margin calls not being eaten. Although admittedly BSIP42 helped the risk accumulation to an extent, I still believe it's not fully due to BSIP42. Before BSIP42, E.G. on bitcrab's image, bitUSD has a more than 15% premium, to eat the margins which are hanging at -10% you still have to pay quite a bit more than market price.

BTS price limit the smartcoin supply, if the demand overcome the supply, either premium or system risk will arise.

will everything be OK if we adopt the dynamic MCR solution to replace BSIP42? seems not.

in MCR solution, while demand for smartcoin arise, MCR need to be adjusted downwards, say, if MCR reach 1.2, it will be easy to touch black swan if there is rapid fall of BTS price.

Well, if we're in danger of GS and need to adjust feed price to prevent it (as in bitCNY), peg gets broken anyways.

With that in mind, we can simply add limits to the possible extent MCR and MSSR can move.

See here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27360.msg324958#msg324958

This will allow a tighter peg up to an extent. So better than previous situation while still controllable/predictable. Will peg break in extreme circumstances? yes...but it does that anyway.

We can also combine it with this: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27459.0

Which in the form of a penalty will allow us to effectively increase MSSR , without putting pressure in the order books.