Author Topic: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado  (Read 1895 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline biophil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 880
  • Professor of Computer Science
    • View Profile
    • My Academic Website
  • BitShares: biophil
Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2019, 04:46:25 am »
@bench: you spoke very negatively about this worker in other threads, which leads me to believe that your mind is made up already. But I'm happy to answer anyway.

@biophil:
1. How can your theoretical model be applied to a market with external parameters?

There are two broad ways: the first is called a Monte Carlo simulation, and we're laying the groundwork for this already. We simulate the model with many different inputs for the various parameters, and see what outcomes occur. For example, if we run Monte Carlo simulations for many different market conditions on the current chain parameters and most of the outcomes have good pegging and liquidity, then that validates the current chain parameters.

The second way is more difficult, but we will try given funding: there is a major area of control theory called "robust control" where they study whether a system performs well for all kinds of disturbances. It is possible to show that certain kinds of control systems (airplane autopilots, for example) are robust and can avoid spiraling out of control no matter what nature does to them. We may be able to apply this theory to the BitShares system and describe exactly what kinds of market conditions are "safe" for BitAsset price pegs.

Quote
2. How does your worker solve systematic market problems?

Our view is this: BitAssets will never be widely adopted if their users don't have confidence. If someone comes to you and says "why is MSSR set to 1.01?" and your answer is "we picked it randomly and it's been working fine for a while," that doesn't instill confidence. If instead you can say "we have run extensive simulations and advanced analysis and we have found that 1.01 provides the best balance between keeping the price down in bull markets and keeping the price up in bear markets," then you'll have something.

Quote
3. What options/solutions do you want to research?

I've been clear about this from the start, and I'm still proposing the same thing now that I was when I first announced. Take a look at the document linked in the first post of this thread.
Support our research efforts to improve BitAsset price-pegging! Vote for worker 1.14.204 "201907-uccs-research-project."

Offline bench

Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2019, 03:10:54 pm »
@biophil:

1. The MCR/MSSR parameter is only a small part of the equation. Before we can optimize these parameters, we need to define and design the system first.
2. Optimization of MCR/MSSR already happened and with the current system we don't have any real edge by tuning these parameters further.
3. Simulations are used, when there is
  • no understanding how the system works -> not the case
  • no live data available -> not the case
  • need to improve parameters -> already improved

4. What BitShares need is to implement new market mechanics. For MCR/MSSR this is a back tested algorithm (AI), which tries to minimize:
- System risk
- MCR
- Premium


A question back to you: How do you know that 1.5 and 1.01 are the sweet spot? Why not 1.2 and 1?
Because we had 1.5 CR for bitUSD after the second price drop.



my question is, why? why do you suppose 1.5 is the lowest, why do you know a lower MCR cannot be better?
MCR should be as low as possible and only as high as needed. Without improved market mechanics/liquidity, I see no room to go any lower than 1.5.

The committee should only set the weight distribution for system risk, liquidity and premium. The back tested AI algorithm tries to minimize the sum.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 05:00:15 pm by bench »
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline Fox

Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2019, 04:14:35 pm »
I invite everyone to look at how the top research institutions are attempting to establish cryptocurrency and DLT as an academic field and most importantly why. The MIT Media Lab are hosting the Cryptoeconomic Systems "Field Building Summit" 5-6 OCT [1]. Page 2 sets up the Problem and page 4 addresses the Solution. Companies are most willing to build on rigorously researched system designs. Lacking the establishment of what is fact and what remains an open question, this field will fail to advance to its potential.

The same is true for the BitShares Protocol.

As a member of the Core Team tasked with implementing the protocol, I can assure you that formal research and peer review will lead to more robust designs and result in implementation of the DeFi DeFi tools businesses will build upon and investors are willing to participate within.

[1] https://assets.pubpub.org/pbghqdg6/11562785633291.pdf
Witness: fox

Offline ioBanker

Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2019, 07:45:32 am »
I invite everyone to look at how the top research institutions are attempting to establish cryptocurrency and DLT as an academic field and most importantly why. The MIT Media Lab are hosting the Cryptoeconomic Systems "Field Building Summit" 5-6 OCT [1]. Page 2 sets up the Problem and page 4 addresses the Solution. Companies are most willing to build on rigorously researched system designs. Lacking the establishment of what is fact and what remains an open question, this field will fail to advance to its potential.

The same is true for the BitShares Protocol.

As a member of the Core Team tasked with implementing the protocol, I can assure you that formal research and peer review will lead to more robust designs and result in implementation of the DeFi DeFi tools businesses will build upon and investors are willing to participate within.

[1] https://assets.pubpub.org/pbghqdg6/11562785633291.pdf

Thanks for sharing this Fox and for your continues great efforts, In my opinion we need to satisfy our own existing investors through stabilizing the price and putting a clear budgeting direction for our expenses with some basic accounting knowledge.

I agree with the vision that formal research is a very helpful thing but I don't see it helping at this stage, we need to approach business itself to satisfy BTS use cases.

I don't see how this worker would help the value of BTS.
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!
Committee account: iobanker-core
Ammar Yousef - CEO @ ioBanker OÜ

Offline bench

Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2019, 11:32:15 am »
I don't see how this worker would help the value of BTS.
Not only you see no value in this worker, but also the majority of the voters see now value in this worker proposal.

We already know:
MCR = 2.0 -> low liquidity -> unsafe
MCR = 1.01 -> unlimited liquidity -> 100% safe

Our problem is now liquidity and BTS price and not to set the parameter for MCR/MSSR!

My proposal does solve the problem by increasing the liquidity and the demand for BTS:
Margin position liquidity pool - https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/182
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 11:45:43 am by bench »
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline pc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1492
    • View Profile
    • Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko?
  • BitShares: cyrano
Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2019, 12:07:12 pm »
We already know:
MCR = 2.0 -> low liquidity -> unsafe
MCR = 1.01 -> unlimited liquidity -> 100% safe

How do you *know* (instead of believe)? E. g. I believe that "MCR=1.01 -> 100% safe" is obviously untrue, because a drop of 2% in BTS price will lead to undercollateralization and destroy the peg.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline bench

Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2019, 12:16:22 pm »
How do you *know* (instead of believe)? E. g. I believe that "MCR=1.01 -> 100% safe" is obviously untrue, because a drop of 2% in BTS price will lead to undercollateralization and destroy the peg.
Because the unlimited liquidity can always increase the CR faster, than the limited price drop!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 06:56:24 pm by bench »
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3699
    • View Profile
    • Steemit Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2019, 01:31:32 pm »
How do you *know* (instead of believe)? E. g. I believe that "MCR=1.01 -> 100% safe" is obviously untrue, because a drop of 2% in BTS price will lead to undercollateralization and destroy the peg.
Because the unlimited liquidity can always increase the CR faster, than the price drop!
There is no unlimited liquidity. You put a buy order but nobody would sell. You buy up means only you think your bitX doesn't work 1 X, but not mean BTS price will go up. Anyone dumps in another market will still crash the price, then all the debt positions will become margin calls and collateral be dumped to the market and crash the DEX price, leads to unlimited liquidity of dumping.
BTS account: abit
BTS committee member: abit
BTS witness: in.abit

Offline Customminer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 699
  • Bitshares FTW!
    • View Profile
  • GitHub: grctest
Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2019, 08:31:21 pm »
I don't see how this worker would help the value of BTS.
Not only you see no value in this worker, but also the majority of the voters see now value in this worker proposal.

We already know:
MCR = 2.0 -> low liquidity -> unsafe
MCR = 1.01 -> unlimited liquidity -> 100% safe

Our problem is now liquidity and BTS price and not to set the parameter for MCR/MSSR!

My proposal does solve the problem by increasing the liquidity and the demand for BTS:
Margin position liquidity pool - https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/182
How would you configure the settings for algorithm based assets? Not all smartcoins are market pegged assets & the recommended settings and possibilities for algorithm based assets is lacking.

This worker proposal could provide new smartcoin setting profiles for multiple theoretical assets & that's valuable information to me and probably others.

Offline bench

Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2019, 10:50:16 pm »
There is no unlimited liquidity.
It was only a thought experiment, like the research. The experiment was chosen to highlight the real elephant is in the room.

This worker proposal could provide new smartcoin setting profiles for multiple theoretical assets & that's valuable information to me and probably others.
If you are unsure how to set parameters, you should open a separate topic.
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline bench

Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2019, 10:53:02 pm »
There is no unlimited liquidity.
It was only a thought experiment, like the research. The experiment was chosen to highlight the real elephant is in the room.

This worker proposal could provide new smartcoin setting profiles for multiple theoretical assets & that's valuable information to me and probably others.
If you are unsure how to set parameters, you should think yourself or open a separate topic.
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline Customminer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 699
  • Bitshares FTW!
    • View Profile
  • GitHub: grctest
Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2019, 12:26:11 am »
This worker proposal could provide new smartcoin setting profiles for multiple theoretical assets & that's valuable information to me and probably others.
If you are unsure how to set parameters, you should open a separate topic.
I believe this WP will be more productive for this purpose; threads on bitsharestalk are usually pretty quiet.

Offline bench

Re: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2019, 11:14:48 am »
I believe this WP will be more productive for this purpose; threads on bitsharestalk are usually pretty quiet.
No, because you are now on the bitAsset research project thread!
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!