Author Topic: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold  (Read 1124 times)

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Online bitcrab

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[Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« on: September 26, 2019, 05:29:46 pm »
Based on BSIP76, https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/blob/master/bsip-0076.md, now 2 poll worker proposals have been created:

1.14.218   Poll - BSIP76 - Set bitCNY feed threshold to 0.246CNY/BTS
1.14.222   Poll - BSIP76 - Set bitCNY feed threshold to 0.22CNY/BTS
1.14.219   Poll - BSIP76 - Do Not Set bitCNY feed threshold

This action is a little urgent and is triggered by what happened at ZB.com at 24th night, China community recognized that BTS have to develop some method to resist the shorting attack from CEX immediately, otherwise all the stakeholders can only play tragic role.

Please vote according to your opinion.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 06:19:55 pm by bitcrab »

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold to 0.246CNY/BTS
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2019, 06:00:01 pm »
BSIP 76 was merged without following proper procedures. Discussion was (and is) still ongoing.

This is a deliberate attempt to unilaterally destroy the concept of our smartcoins, without caring about the consequences.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline bench

Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold to 0.246CNY/BTS
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2019, 06:08:07 pm »
This does not look good. Reminds me on BSIP42.

Why did the Chinese community not vote for 1.14.215   Poll - BSIP59 - Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.5?
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold to 0.246CNY/BTS
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2019, 06:31:27 pm »
BSIP 76 was merged without following proper procedures. Discussion was (and is) still ongoing.

This is a deliberate attempt to unilaterally destroy the concept of our smartcoins, without caring about the consequences.

The rationale is clear and the thing is a little urgent, actually some witnesses already did what BSIP76 describes while it was not drafted out yet, it's not a good choice to go through a long process while watching tragic stories continue to happen.

We always need to review the BTS mechanism and optimize. I don't think this will do bad to smartcoins.

This BSIP is drafted by core team member and merged by committee member, although it do not strictly follow the core team process, it really reflect the ideas from the community and the team.

Surely discussion will go on, if there is strong negative opinions, please express through voting power.


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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold to 0.246CNY/BTS
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2019, 06:43:22 pm »
This does not look good. Reminds me on BSIP42.

Why did the Chinese community not vote for 1.14.215   Poll - BSIP59 - Reduce MCR of bitCNY to 1.5?

different.

BSIP76 is protection, just avoid the feed price to fall into some price area. BSIP42 is dynamic adjusting feed price based on the "peg exactness" of the smartcoin, BSIP42 bring more uncertainty.

another thing is that GS protection is not alive while BSIP42 is implemented, this add more risk.

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold to 0.246CNY/BTS
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2019, 08:39:41 pm »
it really reflect the ideas from the community and the team.

It reflects the ideas from two people, abit and yourself. Certainly not "the community" nor "the team".

I don't think this will do bad to smartcoins.

It destroys the value proposition of our smartcoins. What else is a smartcoin good for? Who is ever going to believe that 1 bitCNY = 1 CNY if you decide to break the peg in order to protect the interests of speculators, using the voting power of these speculators?

Detroying credibility of our smartcoins will have a devastating effect on the entire BitShares ecosystem.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline Thul3

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2019, 11:43:03 pm »
Quote
It reflects the ideas from two people, abit and yourself. Certainly not "the community" nor "the team".

I joined their idea.
Losing pegg for a described timeframe is not as bad as losing big part of the community and their trust because bitshares can't protect debt holders from obvious price manipulation.
Who is going to take the risk to create debt if bitshares shows that everyone can manipulate them like he is pleased.

Current active accounts on bitshares are around 5000.
We are already a small community and shouldn't let another part of the community leave just to uphold a pegg of bitfiat which is already near GS and losing its pegg anyway.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 11:48:50 pm by Thul3 »

Offline Bangzi

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2019, 02:10:19 am »
BSIP76 Activated in BitCNY and BitUSD
Please Vote for My Witness: Bangzi
请投票支持比特股见证人: Bangzi
Witness Update: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26459.0

Online bitcrab

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold to 0.246CNY/BTS
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 04:24:47 am »
It reflects the ideas from two people, abit and yourself. Certainly not "the community" nor "the team".

not sure which core team member other than abit support this, but at least 5 committee members support this.

It destroys the value proposition of our smartcoins. What else is a smartcoin good for? Who is ever going to believe that 1 bitCNY = 1 CNY if you decide to break the peg in order to protect the interests of speculators, using the voting power of these speculators?

Detroying credibility of our smartcoins will have a devastating effect on the entire BitShares ecosystem.

Yes, this action bring partial and temporary harm to smartcoin, but we focus on global and long term issues.

smartcoin is not a perfectly designed concept, maybe mathematically it can support itself, but the key point in economy is people's behavior, when you review it economically, you'll find many flaws inside it, that's why we push continuous update on it.

one key point is, it is not a right way to pay any cost to maintain the stability of smartcoin.

we have thought GS is a good design, but now most of the community support GS protection.

maybe the "threshold of feed price" is another big change to smartcoin design, we need to face it, not to blame it or try to kill it.


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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 05:55:06 am »
Losing pegg for a described timeframe is not as bad as losing big part of the community and their trust because bitshares can't protect debt holders from obvious price manipulation.
Who is going to take the risk to create debt if bitshares shows that everyone can manipulate them like he is pleased.

The only manipulation happening here is this arbitrary price feed that has nothing to do with reality!

You are deliberately destroying the credibility of our SmartCoins, and you think that will instill trust in our userbase?
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Online binggo

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2019, 06:45:12 am »
Losing pegg for a described timeframe is not as bad as losing big part of the community and their trust because bitshares can't protect debt holders from obvious price manipulation.
Who is going to take the risk to create debt if bitshares shows that everyone can manipulate them like he is pleased.

The only manipulation happening here is this arbitrary price feed that has nothing to do with reality!

You are deliberately destroying the credibility of our SmartCoins, and you think that will instill trust in our userbase?

Just a a temporary measures for emergency situation and mechanism problem, something like Circuit Breaker, don't need to worry about this too much.

If really want to help or do something, should give a better mechanism to prevent the short attack which come from the fictitious trading of CEX.

If we have a perfect mechanism, we will not need this BSIP anymore.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 06:54:19 am by binggo »

Offline R

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2019, 05:37:28 pm »
Why was this implemented before activation? None of the proposed BSIPs gained sufficient network consensus:
https://btsapi.grcnode.co.uk/get_bts_object?object_id=1.13.26121&api_key=123abc
https://btsapi.grcnode.co.uk/get_bts_object?object_id=1.13.26116&api_key=123abc
https://btsapi.grcnode.co.uk/get_bts_object?object_id=1.13.26117&api_key=123abc

Why pretend to use BSIP & WP if it's purpose is disregarded?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 05:39:42 pm by R »

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2019, 12:59:12 pm »
https://btsapi.grcnode.co.uk/get_bts_object?object_id=1.13.26121&api_key=123abc
https://btsapi.grcnode.co.uk/get_bts_object?object_id=1.13.26116&api_key=123abc

The above BSIP WP's were activated for a very short moment this morning, days after the changes were thrust upon witnesses. Why was the BSIP WP process bypassed/disregarded when it comes to such a high impact BSIP?

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2019, 07:58:11 pm »
How long will this be active for then? It's almost been 2 weeks now.

Offline bench

Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2019, 09:26:28 pm »
How long will this be active for then? It's almost been 2 weeks now.
Until MCR for bitCNY is set to 1.5.
Min. feedprice can be lowered to 0.20625 bitCNY/BTS
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 10:09:28 pm by bench »
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline sschiessl

Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2019, 08:08:41 am »
How long will this be active for then? It's almost been 2 weeks now.
Until MCR for bitCNY is set to 1.5.
Min. feedprice can be lowered to 0.20625 bitCNY/BTS

I very much doubt that lowering the threshhold will __ever__ happen, as long as the outside market price is lower. It would mean instant margin call for pretty much all positions.

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2019, 09:43:43 am »
How long will this be active for then? It's almost been 2 weeks now.
Until MCR for bitCNY is set to 1.5.
Min. feedprice can be lowered to 0.20625 bitCNY/BTS

I very much doubt that lowering the threshhold will __ever__ happen, as long as the outside market price is lower. It would mean instant margin call for pretty much all positions.

I don't think that will happen, I don't think community will select to lower the threshold.

actually the current status is not so bad, although BTS market price is about 10% lower than 0.22CNY, bitCNY has about 4% discount, better than the 10%+ premium that we always see when MSSR=1.1.

Offline R

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2019, 10:41:51 am »
How long will this be active for then? It's almost been 2 weeks now.
Until MCR for bitCNY is set to 1.5.
Min. feedprice can be lowered to 0.20625 bitCNY/BTS

I very much doubt that lowering the threshhold will __ever__ happen, as long as the outside market price is lower. It would mean instant margin call for pretty much all positions.

I don't think that will happen, I don't think community will select to lower the threshold.

actually the current status is not so bad, although BTS market price is about 10% lower than 0.22CNY, bitCNY has about 4% discount, better than the 10%+ premium that we always see when MSSR=1.1.

It's more than 4% though, no? https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29679.msg336034#msg336034

CNY feed price: 4.54545 BTS per 1 CNY (https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/asset/CNY)
1 CNY in USD (CURRENT): $0.140133 (https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=1&From=CNY&To=USD)
1 BTS in USD (CURRENT): $0.028488 (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares/)
(1-((4.54545*0.028488)/0.140133))*100= 7.594%


1 CNY in USD (26th september 2019): $0.140220 (https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/best-exchange-rates/best-us-dollar-to-chinese-yuan-history)
1 BTS in USD (26th september 2019): $0.025056 (same cmc source)
(1-((4.54545*0.025056)/0.140220))*100= 18.777% (That's a deep discount, no?)

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2019, 12:03:16 pm »
I don't think the result you got is right.

The right answer is there: https://dev.bts.xyz/merchant/staff?action=recharge&asset=CNY


How long will this be active for then? It's almost been 2 weeks now.
Until MCR for bitCNY is set to 1.5.
Min. feedprice can be lowered to 0.20625 bitCNY/BTS

I very much doubt that lowering the threshhold will __ever__ happen, as long as the outside market price is lower. It would mean instant margin call for pretty much all positions.

I don't think that will happen, I don't think community will select to lower the threshold.

actually the current status is not so bad, although BTS market price is about 10% lower than 0.22CNY, bitCNY has about 4% discount, better than the 10%+ premium that we always see when MSSR=1.1.

It's more than 4% though, no? https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29679.msg336034#msg336034

CNY feed price: 4.54545 BTS per 1 CNY (https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/asset/CNY)
1 CNY in USD (CURRENT): $0.140133 (https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=1&From=CNY&To=USD)
1 BTS in USD (CURRENT): $0.028488 (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares/)
(1-((4.54545*0.028488)/0.140133))*100= 7.594%


1 CNY in USD (26th september 2019): $0.140220 (https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/best-exchange-rates/best-us-dollar-to-chinese-yuan-history)
1 BTS in USD (26th september 2019): $0.025056 (same cmc source)
(1-((4.54545*0.025056)/0.140220))*100= 18.777% (That's a deep discount, no?)

Offline bench

Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2019, 12:34:28 pm »
How long will this be active for then? It's almost been 2 weeks now.
Until MCR for bitCNY is set to 1.5.
Min. feedprice can be lowered to 0.20625 bitCNY/BTS

I very much doubt that lowering the threshhold will __ever__ happen, as long as the outside market price is lower. It would mean instant margin call for pretty much all positions.

No margin call, because MCR (bitCNY)= 1.5!
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2019, 12:35:53 pm »
It's more than 4% though, no? https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29679.msg336034#msg336034

CNY feed price: 4.54545 BTS per 1 CNY (https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/asset/CNY)
1 CNY in USD (CURRENT): $0.140133 (https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=1&From=CNY&To=USD)
1 BTS in USD (CURRENT): $0.028488 (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares/)
(1-((4.54545*0.028488)/0.140133))*100= 7.594%


1 CNY in USD (26th september 2019): $0.140220 (https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/best-exchange-rates/best-us-dollar-to-chinese-yuan-history)
1 BTS in USD (26th september 2019): $0.025056 (same cmc source)
(1-((4.54545*0.025056)/0.140220))*100= 18.777% (That's a deep discount, no?)


bitCNY/CNY conversion fee at this moment:

« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 12:38:08 pm by bitcrab »

Offline R

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2019, 04:03:54 pm »
I don't think the result you got is right.

The right answer is there: https://dev.bts.xyz/merchant/staff?action=recharge&asset=CNY

Your website isn't loading properly, it's displaying an indefinite spinning loading animation.

CMC shows the current BTS CNY price as 0.205061 & Coingecko say it's 0.203866, so:
4.54545 * 0.205061 = 0.93209  (6.79% below peg).
4.54545* 0.203866 = ‭0.92666 (‭7.334‬% below peg).

bitCNY/CNY conversion fee at this moment:

I'm unfamiliar with this trading exchange, but the shown rates are below my above estimates.

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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2019, 06:29:05 pm »
As far as I can tell, data on CMC is not reliable.

72% of volume on BTS on CMC is from CoinEgg, with fake volume.
100% of volume on bitCNY on CMC is from CoinTiger, where you can't deposit/withdraw.

I have no idea how Coingecko got that data.
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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2019, 02:58:33 pm »
As far as I can tell, data on CMC is not reliable.

72% of volume on BTS on CMC is from CoinEgg, with fake volume.
100% of volume on bitCNY on CMC is from CoinTiger, where you can't deposit/withdraw.

I have no idea how Coingecko got that data.
0.19975 CNY/BTS : https://www.livecoinwatch.com/price/BitShares-BTS
0.20149 CNY/BTS : https://coincodex.com/crypto/bitshares/?period=7D
0.2006 CNY/BTS: https://coincheckup.com/coins/bitshares/
0.208 CNY/BTS: https://coinlib.io/coin/BTS/Bitshares
0.20152 CNY/BTS: https://coincap.io/assets/bitshares

avg: (0.19975 + 0.20149 + 0.2006 + 0.208 + 0.20152)/5 = ‭0.202272‬ CNY/BTS
avg value of 1 bitCNY: 4.54545 * 0.202272‬ = ‭0.9194172624‬ = ‭8.058% below peg


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Re: [Poll] BSIP76:Set bitCNY feed threshold
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2019, 10:24:32 pm »
As far as I can tell, data on CMC is not reliable.

72% of volume on BTS on CMC is from CoinEgg, with fake volume.
100% of volume on bitCNY on CMC is from CoinTiger, where you can't deposit/withdraw.

I have no idea how Coingecko got that data.
0.19975 CNY/BTS : https://www.livecoinwatch.com/price/BitShares-BTS
0.20149 CNY/BTS : https://coincodex.com/crypto/bitshares/?period=7D
0.2006 CNY/BTS: https://coincheckup.com/coins/bitshares/
0.208 CNY/BTS: https://coinlib.io/coin/BTS/Bitshares
0.20152 CNY/BTS: https://coincap.io/assets/bitshares

avg: (0.19975 + 0.20149 + 0.2006 + 0.208 + 0.20152)/5 = ‭0.202272‬ CNY/BTS
avg value of 1 bitCNY: 4.54545 * 0.202272‬ = ‭0.9194172624‬ = ‭8.058% below peg
Thanks for the links.
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