Author Topic: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS  (Read 10113 times)

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Offline Crypto Kong

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Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« on: November 06, 2019, 12:11:10 pm »
Since refund worker has been voted in and funding ceased to development projects investors see no reason to purchase BTS. This will only get worse when software we offer becomes unusable when nodes go offline thanks to infrastructure worker receiving no funds.

So far I see no benefit of refund workers as BTS continues to be out performed by other cryptocurrencies. You need only look on the dex at open.eos-bts. open.xrp-bts & open.eth-bts to see that BTS has been outperformed by 20-30% since September. BTS has also dropped down to 67th place on coinmarketcap.

Refund workers have so far provided no benefit to BTS price and continue to make BitShares lag our competitors on the development front in a highly competitive and fast moving industry.

Offline binggo

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2019, 01:04:33 pm »
I don't think so, the investor don't buy not because of lack of development, but these development didn't give what they want.
We have fund almost 20M bitcny to the development in this year, now we need to check the result of these development.

If no pay no development, BTC shouldn't survive.

Every business want build on the bts, should have their own nodes to serve their customer, we only provide the basic and what we can afford service.

Offline tonyniu352

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2019, 06:12:21 pm »
Since BM left, the development of BTS is mainly undertaken by some workers. These workers are very important to BTS, and the active gratitude towards work of these workers is very appreciated by us. But on the other hand, these workers have already paid a considerable amount of money, The BTS reserve pool is used to pay workers. Now, the current situation is that, although the volume and activity on the BTS chain is not bad, but the BTS market value ranking is from the highest fourth place to the lower 50th in the past few years, and BTS technology is no longer so attractive compared with other competitors. While BTS is no longer a hot cryptocurrency and BTS investors are not getting any returns, BTS worker is certainly a much hotter business than before. The expenditure of the BTS system exceeds most of the other cryptocurrency, the BTS workers have been paid nearly 27 million CNY (4 million USD)this year (THANK for refound400k). A Nobel Prize is only about 6 million CNY, and 4 Nobel prizes can be awarded with the expenses of BTS in this years. Development needs to be paid, translation needs to be paid, marketing needs to be paid, meetings need to be paid, papers need to be paid, documents need to be paid, and these expenses are more and more. So the expenses budget must be controlled and adjusted. BTS workers are actually a business now, but lack of management of workers, such as the same work needs to introduce multiple workers to compete, workload evaluation and project acceptance etc. Therefore, it is suggested that, until the management of relevant workers is improved, other workers will be deactivated for a period of time except for necessary worker such as network maintenance, core bug fixing, which will be funded. There may be some BTS holders who are worried about the negative impact on the BTS system introduced by suspending some workers. In fact, lots of the open source softwares on github are developed free by developers, and these softwares are also very successful. Even if BTS spending is reduced, we also believe that developers who love BTS will be willing to join the development. However, The wages of all workers are actually paid by all BTS holders, therefore BTS holders have right to vote on Refund workers to return the pay of other workers to the reserve pool, and introduce a threshold how much votes a worker needs to be active.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 11:55:17 pm by tonyniu352 »

Offline clockwork

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 08:33:04 pm »
Since BM left, the development of BTS is mainly undertaken by some workers. These workers are very import to BTS, and the active gratitude towards work of these workers is very appreciated by us. But on the other hand, these workers have already paid a considerable amount of money, The BTS reserve pool is used to pay workers. Now, the current situation is that, although the volume and activity on the BTS chain is not bad, but the BTS market value ranking is from the highest fourth place to the lower 50th in the past few years, and BTS technology is no longer so attractive compared with other competitors. While BTS is no longer a hot cryptocurrency and BTS investors are not getting any returns, BTS worker is certainly a much hotter business than before. The expenditure of the BTS system exceeds most of the other cryptocurrency, the BTS workers have been paid more than 40 million CNY(6 million USD) last year and nearly 27 million CNY (4 million USD)this year (THANK for refound400k). A Nobel Prize is only about 6 million RMB, and ten Nobel prizes can be awarded with the expenses of BTS in these two years. Development needs to be paid, translation needs to be paid, marketing needs to be paid, meetings need to be paid, papers need to be paid, documents need to be paid, and these expenses are more and more. In the past two years, nearly 200 million BTS token were sold in the market to pay wages for workers. At the current rate of expenditure, the remaining reserve funds may be spent out in three or four years, so the expenses budget must be controlled and adjusted. BTS workers are actually a business now, but lack of management of workers, such as the same work needs to introduce multiple workers to compete, workload evaluation and project acceptance etc. Therefore, it is suggested that, until the management of relevant workers is improved, other workers will be deactivated for a period of time except for necessary worker such as network maintenance, core bug fixing, which will be funded. There may be some BTS holders who are worried about the negative impact on the BTS system introduced by suspending some workers. In fact, lots of the open source softwares on github are developed free by developers, and these softwares are also very successful. Even if BTS spending is reduced, we also believe that developers who love BTS will be willing to join the development. However, The wages of all workers are actually paid by all BTS holders, therefore BTS holders have right to vote on Refund workers to return the pay of other workers to the reserve pool, and introduce a threshold how much votes a worker needs to be active.

those numbers are completely wrong :/

Offline abit

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2019, 09:11:02 pm »
... the BTS workers have been paid more than 40 million CNY(6 million USD) last year and nearly 27 million CNY (4 million USD)this year (THANK for refound400k). ...
Where did you get these numbers?
I heard that total cost for last year is around 1.5 million USD, and far less in this year.

Spreading wrong numbers doesn't help, but will make the situation worse.
BTS account: abit
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Offline R

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2019, 11:06:49 pm »
I don't think so, the investor don't buy not because of lack of development, but these development didn't give what they want.
So you're saying that by not developing what investors want they won't invest? So why would they invest if there is no development to develop that which they want?

I agree with OP, a lack of development will lead to stagnation and decaying software quality. If HackTheDex runs out of funding then there are always external security groups who pay much more for zero days & wouldn't hesitate to use them.

The combination of hackthedex and bitshares-ui development resolved multiple critical vulnerabilities in the last year which had they fallen into the wrong hands could have led to ransomware & worms speading through the network with precision and minimal input by the victim.

We have fund almost 20M bitcny to the development in this year, now we need to check the result of these development.
This is a wildly inaccurate estimate, way over 2x the real amount of funding.

Offline R

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2019, 11:32:38 pm »
the active gratitude towards work of these workers is very appreciated by us.

You appreciate the gratitude that others give workers, yet you demean them? Why are you speaking in the third person?

But on the other hand, these workers have already paid a considerable amount of money.

High quality work deserves fair living wages. Frankly I've seen contractors in IT make much more than they're currently paid; the current rates are very fair.

While BTS is no longer a hot cryptocurrency and BTS investors are not getting any returns, BTS worker is certainly a much hotter business than before.
What does this even mean? Nonsense.

The expenditure of the BTS system exceeds most of the other cryptocurrency,
Do you have any proof for this claim? Sounds made up.

the BTS workers have been paid more than 40 million CNY(6 million USD) last year and nearly 27 million CNY (4 million USD)this year (THANK for refound400k).
Fake figures - shame on you for spreading FUD.

A Nobel Prize is only about 6 million RMB, and ten Nobel prizes can be awarded with the expenses of BTS in these two years.
Nobel prize awards are not a standard comparison for contractor wages. This comes off as petty & aggressive.

Development needs to be paid, translation needs to be paid, marketing needs to be paid, meetings need to be paid, papers need to be paid, documents need to be paid, and these expenses are more and more.
Indeed, by voting for refund400k the result is that translation, development, marketing, meetings, papers, documentation and more are directly impeded. If refund400k is in place too long, those who once contributed towards these areas will leave resulting in future WP being less effective. Not good.

In the past two years, nearly 200 million BTS token were sold in the market to pay wages for workers.
Again fake figures pulled out of thin air.

At the current rate of expenditure, the remaining reserve funds may be spent out in three or four years, so the expenses budget must be controlled and adjusted.
Disagree, your figures and estimates are factually incorrect. If you're worried about the reserve fund, let's raise the fees to increase the reserves. Heck let's rebalance the referral income for more fees to go to the reserves than to directly impede the future outlook of Bitshares through refund400k.

BTS workers are actually a business now
If you fire all the workers in a traditional business there is nobody left to run the business, investors flee and the company fails. This is the fate you want for Bitshares?

Therefore, it is suggested that, until the management of relevant workers is improved, other workers will be deactivated for a period of time except for necessary worker such as network maintenance, core bug fixing, which will be funded.
Why punish all WP for the complaints you have against individual WP? Seems highly illogical and only serves to drive these smaller WP devs away from the network towards competitors.

Core dev, infrastructure & HTD WPs are not being actively funded due to refund400k; they're running on left over funds which will eventually run out. Refund400k directly threatens future network integrity.

In fact, lots of the open source softwares on github are developed free by developers, and these softwares are also very successful. Even if BTS spending is reduced, we also believe that developers who love BTS will be willing to join the development.
When you fire full time developers who rely on WP as a primary source of income they will not stay, they will seek alternative employment so as to feed their family.

When you lie about and demean workers you severely reduce the likelihood of these highly talented devs continuing their once paid efforts for free.

Frankly it's pure delusion to believe the same level of development efforts will persist without funding. There will be brain drain & it'll be directly the result of refund400k.

Once refund400k eventually is lowered, all WP participants will be much more aware of how severely volatile working for BTS is & will be less likely to dedicate their full time towards such endeavors.

However, The wages of all workers are actually paid by all BTS holders
They're allocated by BTS holders, but they're not paid directly by BTS holders - they're paid directly from the reserve pool, not BTS holders balances.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 11:41:33 pm by R »

Offline tonyniu352

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2019, 11:57:12 pm »
sorry for the wrong number of last year. correction done

Offline binggo

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2019, 01:07:03 am »
So you're saying that by not developing what investors want they won't invest? So why would they invest if there is no development to develop that which they want?

I agree with OP, a lack of development will lead to stagnation and decaying software quality. If HackTheDex runs out of funding then there are always external security groups who pay much more for zero days & wouldn't hesitate to use them.

The combination of hackthedex and bitshares-ui development resolved multiple critical vulnerabilities in the last year which had they fallen into the wrong hands could have led to ransomware & worms speading through the network with precision and minimal input by the victim.

It looks like you want to argue for something and want prove your opinion is right, that's very interesting.

Quote
So you're saying that by not developing what investors want they won't invest? So why would they invest if there is no development to develop that which they want?

I think you can do some deeper thinking about your words, and consider why, why, why.

and sombody can tell me where the development fund come from of these coin, BTC,LTC?

and how old is BTS?

The reserve pool belongs to the holder of bts, how to use it determined by votes, the holder is very clearly know what they do, every penny needs to count, they will fund what they think should develop,not who order them.
Oh, maybe you are one holder of bts and didn't get what your want, this just show you didn't hold enough bts to express your opinion.

Do you want to be stronger?hold more bts.

Quote
This is a wildly inaccurate estimate, way over 2x the real amount of funding.

If you think the number is a wildly inaccurate estimate, en, can I trouble you to statistics the accurate amount.
https://www.bitshares.foundation/worker/


Lack of development will not stop investors to buy, the truth is very simple, investors like to buy BTC/LTC/BCH/BSV/XRP/XLM/DOGE/blah, blah, blah... en,they even like to buy more shitcoin... en.

and please calm down!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 01:43:38 am by binggo »

Offline clockwork

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2019, 08:07:47 am »
So you're saying that by not developing what investors want they won't invest? So why would they invest if there is no development to develop that which they want?

I agree with OP, a lack of development will lead to stagnation and decaying software quality. If HackTheDex runs out of funding then there are always external security groups who pay much more for zero days & wouldn't hesitate to use them.

The combination of hackthedex and bitshares-ui development resolved multiple critical vulnerabilities in the last year which had they fallen into the wrong hands could have led to ransomware & worms speading through the network with precision and minimal input by the victim.

It looks like you want to argue for something and want prove your opinion is right, that's very interesting.

Quote
So you're saying that by not developing what investors want they won't invest? So why would they invest if there is no development to develop that which they want?

I think you can do some deeper thinking about your words, and consider why, why, why.

and sombody can tell me where the development fund come from of these coin, BTC,LTC?

and how old is BTS?

The reserve pool belongs to the holder of bts, how to use it determined by votes, the holder is very clearly know what they do, every penny needs to count, they will fund what they think should develop,not who order them.
Oh, maybe you are one holder of bts and didn't get what your want, this just show you didn't hold enough bts to express your opinion.

Do you want to be stronger?hold more bts.

Quote
This is a wildly inaccurate estimate, way over 2x the real amount of funding.

If you think the number is a wildly inaccurate estimate, en, can I trouble you to statistics the accurate amount.
https://www.bitshares.foundation/worker/


I suggest you look up what "up to" and "budget worker" means.

True spent amounts visible at: https://workers.bitshares.foundation/

Offline binggo

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2019, 08:57:32 am »
I suggest you look up what "up to" and "budget worker" means.

True spent amounts visible at: https://workers.bitshares.foundation/

I just need to know how much have spent from the reserve pool, we have spent out almost 8M bitcny, and we have other worker cost,this is not small numbers, so i didn't think we not spent money on the development.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 09:33:07 am by binggo »

Offline clockwork

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2019, 04:04:20 pm »
I suggest you look up what "up to" and "budget worker" means.

True spent amounts visible at: https://workers.bitshares.foundation/

I just need to know how much have spent from the reserve pool, we have spent out almost 8M bitcny, and we have other worker cost,this is not small numbers, so i didn't think we not spent money on the development.

Unspent funds as usual will be burnt back to the chain. Escrowed funds are just that, escrowed. They have not been spent on development.

True number of funds paid to devs is absolutely crucial in evaluating tehir performance and efficiency.

Offline R

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2019, 06:04:47 pm »
So you're saying that by not developing what investors want they won't invest? So why would they invest if there is no development to develop that which they want?

I agree with OP, a lack of development will lead to stagnation and decaying software quality. If HackTheDex runs out of funding then there are always external security groups who pay much more for zero days & wouldn't hesitate to use them.

The combination of hackthedex and bitshares-ui development resolved multiple critical vulnerabilities in the last year which had they fallen into the wrong hands could have led to ransomware & worms speading through the network with precision and minimal input by the victim.

It looks like you want to argue for something and want prove your opinion is right, that's very interesting.

Don't believe it? Go check out hackthedex reports (not conclusive): https://hackthedex.io/#/reports

Now that UI development is no longer funded, are you certain there are no further issues?

By voting for refund400k you seek to actively degrade network & client security to the financial advantage of malicious actors who won't have your best interests at heart.

and please calm down!
I will not remain silent as malicious actors continue to degrade and besmirch Bitshares for their own financial gain.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 10:17:01 pm by R »

Offline binggo

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2019, 10:18:30 pm »
@ R   
Do you want to be stronger?hold more bts.

Offline R

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Re: Lack of development leaves no reason for investors to buy BTS
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 11:01:28 pm »
@ R   
Do you want to be stronger?hold more bts.
Increasing my BTS position will have zero impact on the 'strength' of my forum posts 🙄

I'd be willing to bet it'd have no impact on your demands to buy more BTS than speak freely about the current state of affairs neither.