Author Topic: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC  (Read 24059 times)

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Offline CLains

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You're off to a good start with 5% finders fees.

Exactly. I think we're seeing the exact same problem. I hope Invictus sees it as well.

Referral bounty, shark tank prizes, open bounty proposals, community purses (e.g. in support),

all these things are aimed at de-bottlenecking the allocation of work.


Offline barwizi

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Adam, tell me straight up: Do you think Noir and MMC are good investments? Would you rather have $100 of those two, or $100 of a random choice of the 5 or 6 known invictus DAC ideas?

edit: I know that's not the point you're making, but you can't really say anyone who can make copy/paste altcoins can actually deliver a profitable DAC

I wouldn't know about MMC, but i's sure owning dividends from every venture invested in is a pretty good investment.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 07:54:36 am by barwizi »
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Offline barwizi

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If they were equals, they would already be building their projects and giving other people bounties, not waiting for bounties before getting started.  We're all here because we're convinced that Bytemaster and the rest of the Invictus team is on to something and is offering something of value.  There are good reasons for honoring the social consensus, and there's no reason for any developers to be left without a stake in their own ventures as you suggest.

I would post Bounties in the bounty section, but NO, only Invictus is allowed to do that, go ahead, try posting one and see.
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Offline barwizi

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Because you're picking projects to fund rather than laying out the very basic things a successful dac requires, putting out a bounty and letting teams opt to go after your eco system

Right now you're making them pitch to you, and you've centralized the process on daniel.  Just define what a successful ideal dac looks like after six months of operation and let the market decide, not any man!

The answer to your earlier question, I believe what I have proposed here is fundamentally different than your shark tank all-ideas-pass-through-invictus funnel.    I think you should focus on being oracle gatekeepers after you've proven you're more than aspiring students.  Bounties incentivize the participation of equals who don't need your money up front but want to know they've got stake when they deliver value with their venture.

The kind of development that would ensue if they got these facts right!!! Noir Investment Group has not received a single donation, we'd like to prove the concept first.
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Offline AdamBLevine

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If they were equals, they would already be building their projects and giving other people bounties, not waiting for bounties before getting started.  We're all here because we're convinced that Bytemaster and the rest of the Invictus team is on to something and is offering something of value.  There are good reasons for honoring the social consensus, and there's no reason for any developers to be left without a stake in their own ventures as you suggest.

Invictus already hoovered up the available funds the community has for development of the ecosystem, that was called protoshares.  Invictus is throughly vested in the success of the platform they started, but the point wasn't to give them millions of dollars they'll then dole out in little chunks to people who ask nice enough, it was to incentivize the development of an ecosystem.   You do that with broad incentives otherwise you're bottlenecking the process to how fast you can approve projects and how good you are at picking them.   Equals are teams who can execute and are wiling to work, but they can also choose to just start their own protoshares and sell their own tokens which gives THEM money instead of having to ask for it from Invictus. 

Adam, tell me straight up: Do you think Noir and MMC are good investments? Would you rather have $100 of those two, or $100 of a random choice of the 5 or 6 known invictus DAC ideas?

edit: I know that's not the point you're making, but you can't really say anyone who can make copy/paste altcoins can actually deliver a profitable DAC

Memorycoin has an unknown premine I could not drag out, a founder who I feel has not represented the best interest of his coins in the past and is basically a bitcoin clone with regards to functionality.  I am not interested in coins like this any more.  Noirshares is a DC, Distributed Corp and has a developer behind it who has some baggage in his past but has a strong vision for the future and puts in long hours towards it.   I hold both of these coins because I believe there is potential in Noirshares and can't be bothered to get rid of my memorycoins.

Also, announcing it in the Newsletter is not what you do if you want people to actually know about it.  How big exactly do you think this community is?

In the recently posted video Daniel said that the other DACs will be on board in the next few years. So I guess they don't want to bring them to the table at this moment.

We need to see a few DACs released this year. They don't all have to be sophisticated, they don't all have to be released by Invictus, just three DACs which we can hold up as examples and one of them could be Bitshares.

We have to show the world what a DAC is this year, not over 3 years because time moves faster in this space and 3 years is way too late.

Yep, totally agree.  The opportunity to get people involved is right now.
We want as many DACs to emerge as possible, as soon as possible.  We are limited only by our ability to find qualified developers.

We have learned not to publish our most aggressive timetables because we always miss our most aggressive timetables.

We won't stop being aggressive.

But we are trying to learn to under-promise and over-deliver.



The problem is you are looking for qualified developers instead of defining the outcome you want to be created and then letting the market find the developers because the incentive is so big.   You're off to a good start with 5% finders fees.

It's very good you're not publishing more aggressive timetables than you still do.   You should be aggressive and work hard towards the goals, but you should also walk the talk and let the community do the distributed intelligence thing we're all so fond of theorizing.

Your motto is decentralized solutions for centralized problems, do you really not see how the structure you're trying to build is centralized and the inefficiencies that weakness has already caused?
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Offline Stan

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We want as many DACs to emerge as possible, as soon as possible.  We are limited only by our ability to find qualified developers.

We have learned not to publish our most aggressive timetables because we always miss our most aggressive timetables.

We won't stop being aggressive.

But we are trying to learn to under-promise and over-deliver.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline toast

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Adam, tell me straight up: Do you think Noir and MMC are good investments? Would you rather have $100 of those two, or $100 of a random choice of the 5 or 6 known invictus DAC ideas?

edit: I know that's not the point you're making, but you can't really say anyone who can make copy/paste altcoins can actually deliver a profitable DAC
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 05:56:30 am by toast »
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Offline Troglodactyl

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If they were equals, they would already be building their projects and giving other people bounties, not waiting for bounties before getting started.  We're all here because we're convinced that Bytemaster and the rest of the Invictus team is on to something and is offering something of value.  There are good reasons for honoring the social consensus, and there's no reason for any developers to be left without a stake in their own ventures as you suggest.

Offline luckybit

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Also, announcing it in the Newsletter is not what you do if you want people to actually know about it.  How big exactly do you think this community is?

In the recently posted video Daniel said that the other DACs will be on board in the next few years. So I guess they don't want to bring them to the table at this moment.

We need to see a few DACs released this year. They don't all have to be sophisticated, they don't all have to be released by Invictus, just three DACs which we can hold up as examples and one of them could be Bitshares.

We have to show the world what a DAC is this year, not over 3 years because time moves faster in this space and 3 years is way too late.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 05:43:08 am by luckybit »
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Because you're picking projects to fund rather than laying out the very basic things a successful dac requires, putting out a bounty and letting teams opt to go after your eco system

Right now you're making them pitch to you, and you've centralized the process on daniel.  Just define what a successful ideal dac looks like after six months of operation and let the market decide, not any man!

The answer to your earlier question, I believe what I have proposed here is fundamentally different than your shark tank all-ideas-pass-through-invictus funnel.    I think you should focus on being oracle gatekeepers after you've proven you're more than aspiring students.  Bounties incentivize the participation of equals who don't need your money up front but want to know they've got stake when they deliver value with their venture.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 04:30:39 am by AdamBLevine »
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Offline Stan

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Also, announcing it in the Newsletter is not what you do if you want people to actually know about it.  How big exactly do you think this community is?

+5%

Announcing it in the newsletter (600+ subscribers).
Highlighting the newsletter here every time the opportunity arises.
Putting a big splash up on our web site about it.
Announcing it in interviews and videos and every conference we attend.
Its the whole center of marketing focus for the next six months.

Obviously, our mission will stand to benefit from finding more developers and deploying more DACs.  So we are open to all possible suggestions on how to do so.


Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline toast

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Also, announcing it in the Newsletter is not what you do if you want people to actually know about it.  How big exactly do you think this community is?

+5%
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline muse-umum

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Also, announcing it in the Newsletter is not what you do if you want people to actually know about it.  How big exactly do you think this community is?

In the recently posted video Daniel said that the other DACs will be on board in the next few years. So I guess they don't want to bring them to the table at this moment.

Offline AdamBLevine

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Also, announcing it in the Newsletter is not what you do if you want people to actually know about it.  How big exactly do you think this community is? 
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline AdamBLevine

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We generally love the idea!

But help me to understand how this is different that what we've been talking about as a Shark Tank contest since the February newsletter:
Quote
Shark Tank Model.  Given our crypto-Austrian view of economics, there’s naturally got to be a competition! We are considering the popular TV show Shark Tank as a model (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101229255). 

Bring us your business plan, win the hearts and minds of our community, and get past the industry leaders on our Panel of Judges at our Las Vegas Beyond Bitcoin Summit and you could win our support in incubating your new company.  What’s that include?  Well, there are many things we could provide depending upon the nature of the help your new start-up may need.  For example:

•   A stipend to work in one of our incubators for a period of time.
•   The legal fees to set up your company in its chosen favorable jurisdiction.
•   Fully equipped office space at one of our incubator sites.
•   Forum and web site support while you build you own base of supporters.
•   Crypto-savvy legal, accounting, financial and tax support.
•   Use of our trusted escrow services while you are building your own reputation.
•   Consulting with Dan “bytemaster” Larimer and our team of innovators.
•   Help with finding opportunities to speak at a major conference.
•   Promotional support integrated with our own global marketing campaign.

Here are some of the judging criteria that might apply.  What others have we missed?

1.   Business model.  How does your DAC make money for its shareholders?
2.   Technical approach.  What are the underlying technologies you will use?
3.   Regulatory environment.  Have you selected a favorable legal jurisdiction?
4.   Team Qualifications.  Does your proposed company have what it takes to succeed?
5.   Diversity.  Does your company bring participation from other regions of the globe.
6.   Popularity.  How much donation-backed grass-roots support do you have?

The competition might have room for, say, five finalists who would compete in our own shark tank.  Your first task would be to earn the right to become one of those finalists.  Here is how to start:

1.   Start a discussion thread in our forum where you explain your idea to everyone.
2.   Commit to honor the BitShares Social Contract as your first posting there.
3.   Explain your qualifications, resources and the kind of start-up help you are seeking.
4.   Submit a synopsis (2000 words max) as a .pdf file published in your forum thread.
5.   Be chosen as a finalist by our “shark tank” Panel of Judges.

If you were chosen as a finalist, we can help set up an “angel shares” style escrow account for you to receive donations from patrons who believe in your idea and want to capture an early stake in it.  It would be up to you to define a proposed social consensus that will attract donations to your cause.  This is a way the BitShares community could “vote” for your idea and the amount you raise by some deadline would be a factor in the judges’ decision.

Then you might be invited to do the following:

1.   Submit a formal proposal (10,000 words max) following rules to be published.
2.   Present a 30-minute sales pitch to our judges and audience in Las Vegas.
3.   Participate in a 20-minute question period with our audience and judges.

After up to five finalists have presented, the judges would announce the first BitShares shark tank winner.  Even if you don’t win, the publicity and support gathered from the competition would give all finalists a big head start.  The result could be up to five new DACs for PTS and AGS holders to own and support.

If you don’t have an idea for a DAC yet, our forum is full of exciting concepts, including those of our own we have shared.  Think of the potential variations on BitShares X alone!  Many of these DACs will eventually be developed by Invictus if no others step forward to accept the challenge.  But we are hoping that by offering a helping hand, we can encourage many new companies to take their place with us as founders of this exciting new industry.

We are still at the early planning stages - this article is just to start a discussion on how best to build an industry of independent developers of incorruptible unmanned companies.  Much of what we do will depend on whether there are enough qualified start-up candidates who want to participate.   We will listen and seek opportunities wherever we can find them.   Let us know what you think!

After reading that, how can you say that we have not offered a plan to involve third-party developers when that's the whole point of the above Featured Article and the Beyond Bitcoin conference and most of our marketing budget between now and then?

Because you're picking projects to fund rather than laying out the very basic things a successful dac requires, putting out a bounty and letting teams opt to go after your eco system

Right now you're making them pitch to you, and you've centralized the process on daniel.  Just define what a successful ideal dac looks like after six months of operation and let the market decide, not any man!
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 03:44:00 am by AdamBLevine »
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