Author Topic: TLD discussion  (Read 15454 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline toast

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Good idea, why not just .name?
(I should have said, 4 or under. Another thing I thought of was .free, as in freedom).

It's not design-by-committee if I'm the only one writing code. I would happily cede some design decision authority to other devs who join in.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline bitbadger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
My original idea was for a rather strict character set but this is something that needs to be discussed thoroughly.

You should interpret my post in a way that still makes sense if you actually disallow periods in the name. That is, I was making a general argument about the  role of TLDs and how "avoiding collisions" using TLDs is an artifact and not what would happen naturally if you remove the effect of the laws that are entangled with the current system.

Yes.  But my original reply was not so concerned with the "legalities" of .org vs. .com etc., but moreso that it allowed for a sort of self-sorting and the multiplication of the namespace across however many TLD's there were.  (Which, recall, back in the beginning there were only a few; .com, .net, .gov, .edu, .org, .mil, and .arpa.)  And that there could be multiple entities which would reasonably desire a given domain name, not only for "squatting" purposes.

Let's put it this way: DomainShares-the-namespace needs a name. No matter what, there is one DomainShares-the-namespace, no matter how you slice it.
Bonus challenge: Make it under 4 characters.

Ok, I again suggest:

.nm
.key

I think .nm is pretty recognizable as the root characters of name/nomen/nombre/etc. which means "name" to most Western languages, even non-Romance languages such as German and Russian.  I guess it is a problem in that it is also the abbreviation for a US state (New Mexico) and there already exists the 2nd-level domain .nm.us, which is used by official government entities in New Mexico.  I could see some potential for confusion there.  Perhaps .nom as an alternative?

I also think .key is pretty good, as a tie-in to Keyhotee and the idea that this system is maintained by way of public/private cryptographic keys.  It also has good mental images: a key unlocks a door, etc.  However, it is probably not as internationally oriented as .nm.

EDIT: I will also say, if the topic is "discussed thoroughly" then you might well end up with a design-by-committee, which doesn't work very well.  I would say, either start with the existing DNS rules and relax them somewhat; or allow all of UTF-8, and then restrict it somewhat.  Going a middle route of picking and choosing, and allowing this but not allowing that, is going to lead to nothing but confusion.  Think through all the options, but go with your gut, and don't allow it to get more complicated than you can handle.  Internationalization is notoriously difficult to work on.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 12:52:49 am by bitbadger »
Pei5BrnEUqcCuUdffNZmBPL3rg6duj3vnU

Offline BldSwtTrs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile

Offline toast

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Let's put it this way: DomainShares-the-namespace needs a name. No matter what, there is one DomainShares-the-namespace, no matter how you slice it.
Bonus challenge: Make it under 4 characters.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline toast

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
My original idea was for a rather strict character set but this is something that needs to be discussed thoroughly.

You should interpret my post in a way that still makes sense if you actually disallow periods in the name. That is, I was making a general argument about the  role of TLDs and how "avoiding collisions" using TLDs is an artifact and not what would happen naturally if you remove the effect of the laws that are entangled with the current system.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline bitbadger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
TLDs only exist to say, "which rules control this namespace"

I understand, and I get why this is a benefit of decentralized DNS, but my real point was simply to state that conflict over a given name within a given TLD does not merely occur due to "squatting" but can also occur due to legitimate conflicts not predicated upon bad actors.  These conflicts will arise in any system with a single TLD, and the existence of multiple TLD's can mitigate this problem somewhat.  If you've got to have a single TLD, might as well have a few, IMO.

Ok, as long as you acknowledge that what you are saying is basically "require everyone to pick one of the following suffixes" and "put in explicit logic for when there is a period in the name". Why not just let people register both "AAPL.web" vs "AAPL.org.web"? You don't want a "privileged" subset of the namespace which doesn't use periods?

It's just like how the different files on your computer are treated the same way by the operating system. User-space programs can enforce extra rules upon you like "I won't open any file that doesn't end with '.txt'" or "I will display files that end in '.exe' with a special icon". In this case, "I won't attempt a trademark takedown if your name ends with 'org'".

Well, ok, I can see that I was making some assumptions about the Bitshares DNS namespace and how it would be similar to existing DNS systems, but now that you have opened my eyes, I would like clarification of the naming rules, as currently envisioned. 

Will the full UTF-8 character set be permitted, or just a subset?  (I can see UTF-8 support possibly being make-or-break for any new DNS system due to the huge numbers of potential users in non-Latin-glyph-using markets, which are currently second-class citizens in the existing DNS model.  On the other hand, that leaves folks vulnerable to homograph attacks.) How many characters?  Non-printing characters?  Spaces, carriage returns?  Will there be a difference between "badger" and "badger " and " badger" and "  badger"? (That last one was entered two spaces, if you can't see it, I know HTML collapses multiple spaces and   didn't work.)  What about other punctuation?  Will Yahoo! be different from Yahoo? 

While I can see the obvious benefits to having no restrictions built into the system, it is also a fact that many times people are more better off working within a comfortable, straightforward, and intuitive set of restrictions.
Pei5BrnEUqcCuUdffNZmBPL3rg6duj3vnU

Offline toast

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
TLDs only exist to say, "which rules control this namespace"

I understand, and I get why this is a benefit of decentralized DNS, but my real point was simply to state that conflict over a given name within a given TLD does not merely occur due to "squatting" but can also occur due to legitimate conflicts not predicated upon bad actors.  These conflicts will arise in any system with a single TLD, and the existence of multiple TLD's can mitigate this problem somewhat.  If you've got to have a single TLD, might as well have a few, IMO.

Ok, as long as you acknowledge that what you are saying is basically "require everyone to pick one of the following suffixes" and "put in explicit logic for when there is a period in the name". Why not just let people register both "AAPL.web" vs "AAPL.org.web"? You don't want a "privileged" subset of the namespace which doesn't use periods?

It's just like how the different files on your computer are treated the same way by the operating system. User-space programs can enforce extra rules upon you like "I won't open any file that doesn't end with '.txt'" or "I will display files that end in '.exe' with a special icon". In this case, "I won't attempt a trademark takedown if your name ends with 'org'".
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline jwiz168

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
    • View Profile
for educational institutions:

.uni
.hs
.gra
.pre
.mba
.phd

 8)

Offline toast

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Yeah a node is just a computer running "bitcoind". Pools have nothing to do with it, neither does mining.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
    • View Profile
From above: BM mentioned that before about someone not from I3 lacuning the chain. Is it that always someone not from the US will launch the chain because of legal implications? And what does that actually mean "launch the chain" other than putting the open source code out there?

I3 will publish the source from the US. "Launch the chain" means run the first node and publish who to connect to.

Quote
Say we use .dac, what if some one registers the .dac TLD with ICANN? Or does ICANN come up with the new TDLs that are coing out right now?

If it happens while we're barely started, we sigh and switch to a different one.
If it happens after we get momentum... what happened when someone tried to trademark Bitcoin?

Ok. Got it.

Off topic: A node is just a miner that is mining on his own (running the full bitcond client in case of bitcoin) and not as part of a pool?

Offline bitcoinba

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
Perhaps using a system such as the gTLD from ICANN: http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/about/program

And creating categories based on geography or industry.

Ex:  .newyork
       .restaurant

Offline bitbadger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
TLDs only exist to say, "which rules control this namespace"

I understand, and I get why this is a benefit of decentralized DNS, but my real point was simply to state that conflict over a given name within a given TLD does not merely occur due to "squatting" but can also occur due to legitimate conflicts not predicated upon bad actors.  These conflicts will arise in any system with a single TLD, and the existence of multiple TLD's can mitigate this problem somewhat.  If you've got to have a single TLD, might as well have a few, IMO.
Pei5BrnEUqcCuUdffNZmBPL3rg6duj3vnU

Offline toast

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
From above: BM mentioned that before about someone not from I3 lacuning the chain. Is it that always someone not from the US will launch the chain because of legal implications? And what does that actually mean "launch the chain" other than putting the open source code out there?

I3 will publish the source from the US. "Launch the chain" means run the first node and publish who to connect to.

Quote
Say we use .dac, what if some one registers the .dac TLD with ICANN? Or does ICANN come up with the new TDLs that are coing out right now?

If it happens while we're barely started, we sigh and switch to a different one.
If it happens after we get momentum... what happened when someone tried to trademark Bitcoin?
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
    • View Profile
From above: BM mentioned that before about someone not from I3 lacuning the chain. Is it that always someone not from the US will launch the chain because of legal implications? And what does that actually mean "launch the chain" other than putting the open source code out there?

Say we use .dac, what if some one registers the .dac TLD with ICANN? Or does ICANN come up with the new TDLs that are coing out right now?

Edit: Sorry to ask dumb questions. I just learn the most asking provokingly naive/dumb questions :)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 10:06:12 pm by delulo »

Offline toast

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
TLDs only exist to say, "which rules control this namespace"
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.