Author Topic: Namecoin airdrop?  (Read 12585 times)

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Offline jwiz168

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hmmm one DAC would not hurt . Let us see if this can be effective.

Offline MrJeans

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That would be cool, of course setting a time limit (1 year?) on the drop-coins.

There is automatic 1 year 5% penalty... so a small source of dividends for a long time

I think it should be a little more drastic. The airdrop is designed to get more people, who are more likely willing to participate in this, interested in this. If, in a few years, it becomes big and some Namecoin holder realises that and then breaks out the wallet to claim some free money - well thats not our target. We want people to be interested to make it a success, not award it to freeloaders who become bothered after it is a success.
I am agreeing with the above. The airdrop may just cause a sell-off of the 20% reducing the price for AGS/PTS holders. Or Namecoin users may take an interest when it appreciates. So they would be getting some free utility to sell or keep (but theres no add of early adopters).

There also may be a lot of namecoin on exchanges (think mt.gox) so the exchanges will be collecting a good portion of BitsharesDNS and they will most likely sell it (as they are not in the business of speculating).

We could say we will educate the Namecoin market about the snapshot. But if we spending time/money educating the market about bitsharesDNS, why still give away free shares.

I dont think giving away 20% will produce added value of more than 20% making this a bad investment. The dev funding is coming from PTS/AGS holders and dev allocated bitsharesDNS future shares. The people paying for the DAC, giving up their time and speculating on the future of the DAC industry should be rewarded.

I see the point of doing a Namecoin airdrop, however there are disadvantages and we would need to work out the value added which needs to be slightly greater than the % given away.

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I only see this make namecoin more valuable, and convince the namecoin owner hold namecoin more tightly.

If you don't already own NMC it will still be cheaper to buy AGS or PTS.
If you DO already own NMC then we are betting that giving you free stuff will cause you to educate yourself and then hold your nameshares.

We will need to provide funnels for these nmc'ers so that they can educate themselves


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Offline toast

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I only see this make namecoin more valuable, and convince the namecoin owner hold namecoin more tightly.

If you don't already own NMC it will still be cheaper to buy AGS or PTS.
If you DO already own NMC then we are betting that giving you free stuff will cause you to educate yourself and then hold your nameshares.
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Offline Avant

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I only see this make namecoin more valuable, and convince the namecoin owner hold namecoin more tightly.
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Offline biophil

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Technical question: How will the half life idea (I love the idea, by the way) work in terms of Bips/dividends? Suppose NMC-holder genesis block coins lose 50% per month: will that 50% that's destroyed act like any other coin destruction; i.e., will the 50% be returned to shareholders as dividends? It seems obvious to me that this would be the easiest way to implement it.

Maybe this has already been discussed somewhere else, but this seems like a pretty cool effect. It means a couple things:

1) all early adopters get a bunch of huge dividends right at the beginning. Yes, this apparent increase in wealth will mostly be illusory because it's just a re-scaling of balances, but it will be fun! And it will a pretty good way for people to learn how dividends work in the Bitshares world.
2) If airdrop coins aren't claimed quickly, they're just given back to the shareholders. So even if the initial distro is 35/35/20/10, if only half of that 20% airdrop is claimed, the effective distro ends up being closer to 39/39/10/12 (I made those numbers up).

PR issues that will rear their heads:
1) An airdrop will probably really piss off the NMC devs. Of course, NMC devs will already be pissed since we're building a better product.
2) The half-life might make people feel like they're being coerced.
3) Smart people, of whom there are many in the crypto world, will understand that the flood of initial dividends is merely a re-scaling and it might make them feel like we're being dishonest.
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Offline slacking

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Excellent idea and I have no problem with 20% but how about this...airdrop on Namecoin holders first to see how it takes with the obvious targeted audience and if it generates a lot of buzz then come out with a media announcement that "the first airdrop was a smash success so we've decided to extend the offer to bitcoin and litecoin holders too!!!". Generate a pre-buzz with namecoin before the big-buzz that follows. I don't think I would be behind extending the offer to ALL the altcoins cause most of them are junk but why not the target audience and then a followup to the next two biggest coins? Promote the Namecoin airdrop directly in their forum/reddit (but not with press release) and promote the subsequent airdrop the same way but in conjuction with a big media press release. Beta test the airdrop in other words.

Offline fuzzy

Everybody who has ever eaten a “free sample” at the grocery store obviously knows the power of such primal marketing.  But Delulo has a monumental idea here to modernize our free sample distribution method (create a half-life).

Applying a half-life here will assure that those less interested in their “free gift or airdrop” will be less likely to manipulate the price of BitsharesDNS later (when the market cap gets huge).

To the media, it will look as if our airdrop is more generous than it really is because we say that we are giving away 5-10% of BitDNS, but in reality, maybe only 3-6% actually claim their “free gift.”  And by the time a couple weeks pass, then it will no longer be a news story, so why should we still want to be giving away “free promotional coins.”  And who wants to be answering emails about people who are pissed off that they can’t get their “free coins!”  You need to cap the timeframe if you want to simplify the technical hassle of the distribution process as well (that is another legitimate excuse to tell the media).
No media person can spin this negative because the people who missed out on the offer can just go purchase these BitDNS shares on an exchange if they really want them, and the fact that that they did not redeem them within the 2 week window shows any reader that they were not really that interested after all.  So there can be no negative publicity for doing this, plus it will save us from giving away more of a stake than we need to.

Definitely have maximum caps at addresses over 100 BTC/NMC etc.  If the Winklevoss kids want to maximize their free gift, then let them take the time to get out of their Corvettes and move their bitcoins to multiple wallets, then they can take full advantage of the offer.  Otherwise, it’s a “rich get richer” scenario that we legitimately can say that we are purposefully avoiding unless the media wants to vilify Robin Hood (us).  Just realize that the media will not give us negative press for this lest they look like they are supporting the establishment.  Speaking of media softballs:

Here’s another idea, design your airdrop plan in a way that will automatically create softball media questions for you.   For example, I would give 3% to Namecoin holders, and 2% to Bitcoin holders.  This will beg questions from the media such as:
Why are you giving less to Bitcoin holders than Namecoin holders? (that will give you the opportunity to teach the media about the differences between Namecoin vs Bitcoin vs BitsharesDNS).

Basically you can construct your media interview based on your method of airdrop construction.  So that all you will get is softballs without having to defend any actions perceived as "selfish."

Just remember the big overall “airdrop” purpose picture:

The goal or function of the airdrop is to get media buzz and pique the interest of a target market (get a few coins into the hands of those who are actually using them).  Our goal here is not to create fair distribution but to make it more difficult for a BootlegBitsharesDNS clone to snipe our target audience after we release our application.  But we don’t have to tell the media that now do we?  To them it’s all charity, and efficient target marketing (no matter how little money we choose to spend on it).
This airdrop serves 2 purposes:

1.   The media can’t spin a negative story no matter how little of a stake we are giving away (because a 1% BitsharesDNS stake could be worth millions of dollars, but you won’t know until the market opens) because we are being more than generous by giving away free samples.  And after the market opens, if it looks like the BitsharesDNS shares are not worth much money (the media won't even be interested in a story at that point), then it will discourage copycat BootlegBitsharesDNS airdroppers because it won’t look like they can make much money in our space.  But if the 1% stake that we gave away is indeed worth a million dollars (the media will still be knocking at your door), the copycat airdroppers will be late to the party; and by airdropping any clones onto our target audience (who will already have a significant stake in the original BitsharesDNS application) they will only be spreading FUD because why would legitimate players be interested in a illegitimate game.  In other words:

2.   We cannot get scooped by the first clone who chooses to fork BitsharesDNS and release a large percentage of BootlegBitsharesDNS onto our target demographic before we can have the chance to get them interested (because we already piqued their interest).  An airdrop (free samples) is essential marketing that is designed to circumvent the copy cat “redistribution” business model.  Because even though the copy cat redistributer will be indeed giving away a whole lot more BootlegBitsharesDNS, the end users will already have “legitimate” BitsharesDNS in their possession that is already worth some actual amount of $money, where the redistributed BootlegBitsharesDNS have no value (in the absence of an actual market), and is perceived as such until a market for it is created.  Therefore, that fact that we are releasing BitsharesDNS in small batches does not change the fact that we are making the adoption of BootlegBitsharesDNS exponentially more difficult because:  who will be interested in a second market for BootlegBitDNS when they already have a stake in the first market (legitimate) BitDNS that has more current value.

Though this idea seems better, I feel it only centralizes more because the only people who will find it easy to redeem their wallets for shares will be individuals who are comfortable with the tech.  I know, I know...this seems like a simple idea for us, but it is not going to be simple for everyone.  On the other hand, airdropping these things might make exchanges pick up these shares faster...

I still do not know why we couldn't simply "Air drop" these shares to foundations that help fight for internet freedom, or give them a % of the dividends gained from auctions largely because foundations (like the EFF) have a great deal of clout and access to some very brilliant tech-savvy people in addition to legal powerhouses.  Am I missing something here? 

Still on the fence as I really think if we all put our heads together and bang away at this, we will find better ideas than air-drops to coins.  I am, however, far more interested in doing so for altcoins like Namecoin than for Bitcoin (though Namecoin is not too far off).  In the end, doing something like this simply because Ethereum plans to makes us look like a 2nd mover when, in fact, bitShares was a first-mover in this space. 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 06:34:49 am by fuznuts »
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Offline JoeyD

The period must be long enough for the word to get around as well. Bitshares does not get a lot of exposure and very few people even in the crypto-scene are aware of it. Hell it took me quite a while to find it and I was actively searching expecting that there had to be projects like it out there and I still only discovered it after the ags-funding had started.

So I'm fine with an airdrop with some security measures taken, to prevent arbitrage or massive dumps etc., but it must be a well marketed airdrop not a silent one.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 06:20:23 am by JoeyD »

Offline luckybit

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I like the idea of honoring namecoin holders with a small percent and adding a half life to their position. 

I think that adding a half-life to all genesis block positions to encourage people to download the wallet and start securing the network / finding bugs.   Perhaps something as simple as losing 10% per month if you do not claim your funds in the genesis block.

If you wait a while you still get something, but eventually the free give aways end.

I would then recommend that you give some to everyone with BTC and NMC....   this process works better if you have an easy to use wallet on launch and can use the news to generate solid first impression.   

Perhaps a better alternative is to give them 10% but not let them sell for 6 months.  Then they will see it grow and be less likely to sell.

The problem with giving it to everyone with BTC is a lot of the BTC have been stolen or confiscated.

I think Litecoin should be chosen instead, or even better Peercoin. Namecoin of course makes the most sense.
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Initially, I wanted a modification of DHL (Delulo's Half Life proposal), to make it a gradual decrease, but it seems this is better for marketing. Everytime the halving time comes up, there will be some extra attention.

Ah, the bytemaster seal of approval.

All opposed????????

Bytemaster suggested 10% decrease every month. I say keep it drastic (like DHL).

Offline bytemaster

I like the idea of honoring namecoin holders with a small percent and adding a half life to their position. 

I think that adding a half-life to all genesis block positions to encourage people to download the wallet and start securing the network / finding bugs.   Perhaps something as simple as losing 10% per month if you do not claim your funds in the genesis block.

If you wait a while you still get something, but eventually the free give aways end.

I would then recommend that you give some to everyone with BTC and NMC....   this process works better if you have an easy to use wallet on launch and can use the news to generate solid first impression.   

Perhaps a better alternative is to give them 10% but not let them sell for 6 months.  Then they will see it grow and be less likely to sell.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 12:30:22 am by Stan »
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Offline donkeypong

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YEAH! Love it. One other idea: why not end AGS early and allocate the remaining cut to BTC and othercoin holders? That would give them a stake in the whole chain, and not a fungible one because it is not liquid. Use it or don't, and if they don't, then it disappears (on a half life schedule, if you prefer). That would have the dual effect of increasing the value of AGS holders' holdings. Which I'm sure would minimize the pain of sharing.

Offline santaclause102

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Shitty cross posting sorry...
I am a big supporter of the idea as you immediately have a bigger supporter base.
I would set time limits to claim your shares, like: Claim them in a month and you will get x, claim them within the following month and you get 1/2 of x. This creates a date that draws attention to Bitshares like the Bitshares Snaphot did otherwiese people will just say "I will try to understand Bitshares later as I can claim it anytime"... And as Sumantsu suggested I would finally limit the claiming period, see the other thread toast posted above.   
And I would do this with THE GOAL or THE FUNCTION in mind it is supposed to have, which is creating support and attention. Say 1% has half the effect that 5% has but it costs just 1/5... If you are giving away more than is necessary to support this function it is just wasted. The money could better be given to hiring more developers / a developer fund....

Offline santaclause102

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What would be an allocation strategy that attracts highly valuable stakeholders, like great programmers/contributes?

Another thing for fast bootstrapping I could think of is to allocate say 10% to "community tasks": One person or a group of people come up with something that will benefit everyone, then they set a price to the task to be accomplished (the price would be justified by expanses for man-hours or external expenses): The shareholders then can vote whether the group/individual should go ahead. Some escrow guy then decides whether the task has been (partially) accomplished and the shares would be (partially) given to the people/individual.
Clains also made a great suggestion here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4059.msg50889#msg50889

Those suggestions could be part of the developers share....