Author Topic: Reaching out to the Left  (Read 4650 times)

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Offline luckybit

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Wealthy people tend to call other people greedy when those other people are refusing to work for them and their businesses (because they're working for themselves, disruptive competition). If these people don't work at all then the wealthy call them lazy.

So is it better to be greedy or lazy?
Are those the only options? If so it depends on what you want, chances are lazy people live longer, where greedy people might suffer from stress related illnesses like say a bad heart.

In that sense the live long and prosper quote might be a hidden curse instead of a blessing.

But is that really true? If you're not greedy enough then what will you have for comfort when your body and mind start to fail?

Of course if you're too greedy you could lose everything you managed to earn. So it's a balance. I'm using the "greedy" vs "lazy" as a metaphor because that is how people who are above view people from below. Usually if someone is rising up from below then people fear them and that is when it's called greed (making too much money too quickly in disruptive fashion).

It doesn't mean that point of view is accurate.

In the end if you're very competitive you do have to deal with stress. If you're not very competitive you still eventually have to deal with stress. So you deal with stress either way, and it's just a choice as to whether you want to deal with it in a comfortable environment or a harsh one.

Who can say being a CEO is less comfortable than being a construction worker? Look at the fatality rate and construction workers definitely have the more dangerous job. They get paid less and looked down upon. The CEO is feared perhaps by the competition but the fatality rate of being a CEO isn't as high as construction work.

Both of these jobs are stressful. One of these jobs pay a lot more money.

Just remember to be aware of the fact that people who have lots of money on both the left and right are going to call the Bitshares community greedy if the product is a success. If there are any outstandingly successful members then a lot of the same heat that is put on Wall Street could be poured on them merely because they made a lot of money faster than a lot of people are comfortable with.

It's a meme that should be analyzed today before the community has to confront it tomorrow.


« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 07:47:00 am by luckybit »
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Offline JoeyD

Wealthy people tend to call other people greedy when those other people are refusing to work for them and their businesses (because they're working for themselves, disruptive competition). If these people don't work at all then the wealthy call them lazy.

So is it better to be greedy or lazy?
Are those the only options? If so it depends on what you want, chances are lazy people live longer, where greedy people might suffer from stress related illnesses like say a bad heart.

In that sense the live long and prosper quote might be a hidden curse instead of a blessing.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 11:51:34 pm by JoeyD »

Offline luckybit

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Actually I think one of the most important points of what bitshares is trying to do and is not emphasized, realized and sold nearly enough: Everyone is free to make their own version of a blockchain-solution with the tools and prototypes being developed here.

I think most assume the goal is to create either a pump-n-dump or another vendor-lock-in monopoly chain to rule them all scheme. Most people also focus on the "premine" aspect without realizing that PoS needs that exact stake(premine) to be present in order to function in the first place. To counterbalance that fear of premines, it should be communicated more clearly that the goal is to create toolkits and prototypes and that everyone is free to compete/collaborate and devise coin-distributions as they see fit. Bitshares should be clearly differentiated from the standard scam-coins, while off course even allowing scam-coins to be built as well if one so desires.

I don't think there is that much opposition to the idea of trying to setup sustainable ecosystems apart from people vested in threatened monopolies. If profitability is a scary word for many people and only appeals to greed how about using the term sustainability instead? Although I must admit I personally think greed(more than the other vices) is the most fundamental human trait making DACs sustainable.

If you know of any people on twitter who seem to be actively warning people of the scams out there, please let me know.  We need to "recruit" them to help inform the general public. 

On everything else you said, JoeyD...you are SPOT on imo.  That is the philosophy I signed on for +5%

Wealthy people tend to call other people greedy when those other people are refusing to work for them and their businesses (because they're working for themselves, disruptive competition). If these people don't work at all then the wealthy call them lazy.

So is it better to be greedy or lazy?
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Offline fuzzy

Actually I think one of the most important points of what bitshares is trying to do and is not emphasized, realized and sold nearly enough: Everyone is free to make their own version of a blockchain-solution with the tools and prototypes being developed here.

I think most assume the goal is to create either a pump-n-dump or another vendor-lock-in monopoly chain to rule them all scheme. Most people also focus on the "premine" aspect without realizing that PoS needs that exact stake(premine) to be present in order to function in the first place. To counterbalance that fear of premines, it should be communicated more clearly that the goal is to create toolkits and prototypes and that everyone is free to compete/collaborate and devise coin-distributions as they see fit. Bitshares should be clearly differentiated from the standard scam-coins, while off course even allowing scam-coins to be built as well if one so desires.

I don't think there is that much opposition to the idea of trying to setup sustainable ecosystems apart from people vested in threatened monopolies. If profitability is a scary word for many people and only appeals to greed how about using the term sustainability instead? Although I must admit I personally think greed(more than the other vices) is the most fundamental human trait making DACs sustainable.

If you know of any people on twitter who seem to be actively warning people of the scams out there, please let me know.  We need to "recruit" them to help inform the general public. 

On everything else you said, JoeyD...you are SPOT on imo.  That is the philosophy I signed on for +5%
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline JoeyD

Actually I think one of the most important points of what bitshares is trying to do and is not emphasized, realized and sold nearly enough: Everyone is free to make their own version of a blockchain-solution with the tools and prototypes being developed here.

I think most assume the goal is to create either a pump-n-dump or another vendor-lock-in monopoly chain to rule them all scheme. Most people also focus on the "premine" aspect without realizing that PoS needs that exact stake(premine) to be present in order to function in the first place. To counterbalance that fear of premines, it should be communicated more clearly that the goal is to create toolkits and prototypes and that everyone is free to compete/collaborate and devise coin-distributions as they see fit. Bitshares should be clearly differentiated from the standard scam-coins, while off course even allowing scam-coins to be built as well if one so desires.

I don't think there is that much opposition to the idea of trying to setup sustainable ecosystems apart from people vested in threatened monopolies. If profitability is a scary word for many people and only appeals to greed how about using the term sustainability instead? Although I must admit I personally think greed(more than the other vices) is the most fundamental human trait making DACs sustainable.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 07:07:41 pm by JoeyD »

Offline liondani

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Offline CLains

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Barriers to entry are still extremely high. To convince "leftists" who are not nerds or investors now, we need to paint a pretty Elsewhere. This elsewhere cannot smell of basement, wires, code and capitalism; it must smell of green grass, flowers, human interaction, community spirit and wonderful achievements.

We cannot be elsewhere now. The only way at present is to color the future to make people see the light. How? With the motto Envisioning the BitShares Ecosystem. For each demographic a different vision will attract. We are large, we contain multitudes. People select their own preferred environment, we just need to arrange the visions in an accessible manner.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 03:24:15 pm by CLains »

Offline Pimpshares.com

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I'm all for beautiful women on the left and the right. That'll be me after my IPO on Bitshares Me.

Offline gamey

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I found this off google news.  Not really worth its own thread, but fits within this one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bollier/post_7339_b_5144053.html


Quote
Commoners are not all alike. They have many profound differences in their governance systems, management practices and cultural values. And commons are not without their conflicts, struggles and failures. That said, most commoners tend to share fundamental commitments to participation, openness, inclusiveness, social equity, ecological respect, and human rights.

It is bascially a book review about the "commons" as a new cultural movement.  Not really tied to any particular political system, but a cultural movement that spans a lot of beliefs.  I couldn't help but think about Bitshares within this context.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 09:48:44 pm by gamey »
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Offline fuzzy

The left/right divide is a false divide...   

The only divide that matters is freedom / slavery divide.

Damn...took the words right out of my mouth. 

What we should be doing is building a platform and working together to use that platform to inform people that this technology, coupled with a few other trends in technology should be able to give people of all political persuasions what they need. 

I do not shy away from saying that right now we are looking into a future that could effectively be described as the Second Industrial Revolution.  People might think this sounds crazy right now, but if we can free the markets from manipulation...we effectively destroy the current paradigm's stranglehold on innovation.  We no longer need human slaves...now we can have Android Slaves (lets try not to think of iRobot, yet). 

People I have reached out to recently: 
Chris Duane:  http://www.youtube.com/profile_redirector/102670214221715916560 (please upvote it & write your own!)
Bill Still: thesecretofoz@gmail.com

Organizations that might be interested:
Electronic Frontier Foundation (bitShares IS the frontier right?)
The Real News Network (a Crowd-funded, Left-leaning News Organization)


P.S.  I will personally tip every single person who swarms them to message me at BeyondBitcoin@gmail.com.  My hope is that CWEvans will do an Interview with Bill Still, asking questions that the community believes are important (voted on in the Subreddit), and Chris Duane and Bytemaster will chat it up as well...we can record all conversations and post them to the BeyondBitcoin/bitShares Youtube channels.   

« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 07:40:20 am by fuznuts »
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Offline donkeypong

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Not all of us on here are libertarians; I count myself as more of a liberal. Personally, I think Austrian economics in practice would be a disaster. That said, things are obviously out of whack in our society. Libertarians often have the right idea that a simpler way is needed. The biggest problem I see is not the government (though it could use a stiff kick), but the economic inequality that is accelerating as rich become richer, poor become poorer, and the middle class disappears. My interest in Bitshares is that I see the power of a peer-to-peer economy that strips down the waste and greed that are rampant in the private sector, enabling greater opportunities for poor and average people. Yet we must make sure that this system works for them, because so far the peer-to-peer companies seem to work mostly for those who are well-educated and moneyed. I think Bitshares could change that and really spread out a wealth of opportunities for real people in a number of different fields. Hopefully, it will also help us eliminate or downsize some of the wasteful and greedy institutions which profit by exploiting the little guys.

Bitshares: for everyone, not just libertarians!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 06:51:02 pm by donkeypong »

Offline CWEvans

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Apologies if some of my formulations above come across as irreverant. My OP was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but the underlying sentiment is very serious.

I live in South Florida, which is a patchwork of wealth and poverty that has been described as Brazilianization. I very much am looking forward to introducing BitShares to people who would stand out at a Bitcoin conference like a Klingon at a Star Wars convention.

We have very large communities of Argentines, Brazilians, and Venezuelans here, whose relatives are severely restricted in how much money they are allowed to take out of their countries. 

Also, we have a huge Haitian population. A few months ago, I met with a Haitian activist who runs a shared workspace for entrepreneurs within bicycling distance of the house that Trayvon Martin grew up in. They told me that some Musicians in Haiti have millions of fans, but do not receive enough of the proceeds from their music to afford to visit a hospital, if they are injured. When I learned that BitShares Music is already under development, I felt like a kid on Christmas Eve.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 07:19:11 pm by CWEvans »

Offline pariah99

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I wouldn't try to paint cryptocurrency enthusiasts with too broad a stroke.  Admittedly, I only know a few people personally who are even aware of their existence, but it pops up every once in a while and I happily explain to them the advantages of their decentralized structure.  Of the few people who understand or are interested in cryptocurrencies, I think that the common thread is not that they are libertarian; rather, they have some interest/understanding of basic micro/macroeconomic principles.

Spoiler: I am about to graduate with two degree in economics and engineering; whatever else my diploma is worth, at least it lends me some credibility in observing other people's economic acumen.  I'd also consider myself to be pretty damn liberal and/or socialist.  My personal motivation is that I am a techie, and I think that the Federal Reserve has gone completely off the deep end with QE (among other things).

Offline Stan

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Both left and right have
people who want to force their views on others
and
people who just want to be left alone.

:)

Decentralization aims to protect the latter from the former.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline santaclause102

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What Charles described could be a great application for BTS ME.

With regard to movements and left / right identities, I think the world has seen enough of those identity providing but overall (for society as a whole) dividing movements.

What could make this movement different is: An open minded discussion culture which is uniting in that its members share the high value of the possibility to allow different perspectives to coexist and to inspire each other. Whenever a movement has to fight it needs unity of opinion - and fight mode mostly creates simplistic world views - and unity of appearance towards outsiders which is defeating the purpose from the beginning.

edit: and most importantly religious like left/right division prevents people from looking at the arguments of "the other side" at all or at least in a biased way. 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 02:51:25 am by delulo »