crypto & blockchain technologies for a post fossil/capitalist sustainable world

[Stan]

If I were to strand on an island in the Caribbean. And I'd get to take 3 things with me, it would be a can of Coca-Cola, 'Cosmo's Factory' by Creedence Clearwater Revival and the complete works of Martin Luther.

Why Coca-Cola?

 

Coca-Cola is in my top 10 inventions of all time also. Not #1, as this place must be taken by air-conditioning…
If I were to strand on an island in the Caribbean - I will take a fishing pole; as books I will take F Nietzsche and… for music I do not know (yet)

I'd cover all my wishes with just my iPad.  It already has every song I know (including all of Cosmos Factory) and every literary work I could hope to read.)

I might also wish for a supertanker full of Coke, since the supertanker would have other obvious uses... like providing a generator for recharging my iPad.

When making wishes, one must carefully engineer them for maximum effectiveness! 

I'm personally thinking one Enterprise-class starship, outfitted with a replicator, would we wise to include on the list - "Tea, Earl Gray, Hot"

[Troglodactyl]

...
What we have today is better considered "crony capitalism".  Also, the idea of infinite growth is well and good with respect to innovation.  Many of the people today sayjng that the earth cannot provide for all of us not only are introducing dangerous strawmen problems, but also implying only one solution--which has actually worked out FAR worse historically for humanity than the initial "perceived" problems.  Sustainability will not come from a central authority dictating our lives, but from competition to create systems that benefit the largest number of people with the smallest possible input of resources. Let us try not to unnecessarily attribute the the problems that were a byproduct of an outdated paradigm to our inability to sustain "growth".  Rather lets change our conceptualization of what growth is so it does not limit our potential.

The people who drastically change our world for the better are ALWAYS told by the flock that their dreams are impossible.  They manufacture reasons why we cant instead of asking "how can we?"

I would argue we have never realy experienced true capitalism and that America was the closest we've ever been to it...and even today I do not see innovators from all over the world fleeing to other countries in the hope of giving their impossible dreams a chance to be realized.

Unfortunately at this point many are fleeing the U.S. to pursue their innovative dreams, but I agree that for many years the U.S. was a great environment for innovation.  Now I think it's closer to average, depending on the field.

Sustainability is not the problem...our willingness to discount the power of human ingenuity, given proper motivation is our only problem.  Anyone who says otherwise wants to enslave you to their own, dangerously narrow perception of reality.

People really need to research Enron, "Blood and Gore", and there proposed carbon exchanges...it perfectly sets us up for a better understanding of how Agenda 21 is destroying markets and hurting the world population. From there its just a hop skip and jump to 9/11, the "War on Terror" ( which, ironically only serves to perpetuate it), the 2008 stock market attack (it was economic warfare), the larry summers memos, and the "New World Order".

We have ALL the tools we'll ever need.  The question is: will we let those in power let their myopic fears of losing control frame the debate with Warnings of Impossibility...or will we ask forgivness from the scared sheep AFTER proving the nay-sayers wrong?

I like to say that Prometheus stole fire from the gods for mankind, and carbon taxing is the state-worshipers' attempt to steal it back for their god.

[fuzzy]

oh sorry , i think i should have started with my definition of capitalism, here we go:

For me capitalism is our actual system based on infinite growth.
Infinite growth is the esence of capitalism and its result from competition.
Competition in the system impose to each capitalist the necessity of growing


Instead of using blockchain technologies for expanding competition , how about using them for expanding cooperation?

Tipon, do you really think you're going to get anywhere around here denouncing capitalism? Have you not noticed that capitalism is a popular word on these forums?

Here's my suggestion: come up with some other word for the evil system you're describing. The word "capitalism" has too many meanings. To you, it means greedy unsustainable growth and development, but to a lot of people around here it means something much less sinister: something like "the concept that people should be able to own things freely without someone else violently taking them away."

I'm just trying to give you some friendly advice to help you get your point across better. I hate seeing people shooting themselves in the foot through poor choice of words.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

What we have today is better considered "crony capitalism".  Also, the idea of infinite growth is well and good with respect to innovation.  Many of the people today sayjng that the earth cannot provide for all of us not only are introducing dangerous strawmen problems, but also implying only one solution--which has actually worked out FAR worse historically for humanity than the initial "perceived" problems.  Sustainability will not come from a central authority dictating our lives, but from competition to create systems that benefit the largest number of people with the smallest possible input of resources. Let us try not to unnecessarily attribute the the problems that were a byproduct of an outdated paradigm to our inability to sustain "growth".  Rather lets change our conceptualization of what growth is so it does not limit our potential.

The people who drastically change our world for the better are ALWAYS told by the flock that their dreams are impossible.  They manufacture reasons why we cant instead of asking "how can we?"

I would argue we have never realy experienced true capitalism and that America was the closest we've ever been to it...and even today I do not see innovators from all over the world fleeing to other countries in the hope of giving their impossible dreams a chance to be realized.

Sustainability is not the problem...our willingness to discount the power of human ingenuity, given proper motivation is our only problem.  Anyone who says otherwise wants to enslave you to their own, dangerously narrow perception of reality.

People really need to research Enron, "Blood and Gore", and there proposed carbon exchanges...it perfectly sets us up for a better understanding of how Agenda 21 is destroying markets and hurting the world population. From there its just a hop skip and jump to 9/11, the "War on Terror" ( which, ironically only serves to perpetuate it), the 2008 stock market attack (it was economic warfare), the larry summers memos, and the "New World Order".

We have ALL the tools we'll ever need.  The question is: will we let those in power let their myopic fears of losing control frame the debate with Warnings of Impossibility...or will we ask forgivness from the scared sheep AFTER proving the nay-sayers wrong?

[amencon]

Theres this old darwinian theory that says that evolution is determined by competition.
This theory is incomplete.
Evolution has always be also determined by cooperation.
This idea that we humans are in escence competitive is wrong .
Classical economists used to think that individuals following individual interests  and acting competitive would lead to the satisfaction of the whole society.  These theory is wrong.
In humans history there have been a lot of cultures and civilizations that have existed without competition , cultures that have existed in a sustainable way.
I think competition is not something inherent to human nature that cant be changed.
Collaboration on global scale would need a radical change of paradigms, first all those liberal economic theories based on a reductionistic approach should be proscribed as obsolete.

On an evolutionary scale, cooperation is often performed in order to better compete for various things.  I think you're off-base with your determination that the theory is incomplete.  In fact, why would the cooperation be necessary in the first place if there wasn't competition that drives the need for better performance?

It's also absurd to think there have been entire civilizations where there was no competition to be found.

There are times when competition is advantageous and others when cooperation is, and sometimes they are both desirable at the same time for different groups.  I think the world is a bit too complex to fit in your stated simplistic reductionist theories.

I've been hearing the peak oil drum banging for a long time now and the truth is that there exists plenty of oil on the planet.  Advancing technologies continue to allow us to make what is left go further, grant harvesting of reserves previously uneconomical to tap and is opening doors for future alternate fuel sources.  As reserves dwindle in the future the pressure to explore and implement alternative energy solutions will increase since "necessity is the mother of invention".

"Infinite growth" is theoretically possible without any increase in resource usage as increasing efficiencies are continuously developed.

Interesting to think about the future and what role DACs may play in it though.

[donkeypong]

Theres this old darwinian theory that says that evolution is determined by competition.
This theory is incomplete.
Evolution has always be also determined by cooperation.

You are correct. Slavery used to be 'essential' to the economy. Getting women drunk and raping them used to be called chivalry. Humans are naturally animals, but we've proved that we can do better. And we achieve the most when we act together; isn't that the very essence of civilization?

I don't think capitalism will ever go away. Human nature includes greed, some do not have a strong moral compass, and there will always be weaker people to exploit in some way. But with a culture of cooperation, we can create higher expectations for human behavior. And maybe cooperation becomes a new norm.

[tipon]

Theres this old darwinian theory that says that evolution is determined by competition.
This theory is incomplete.
Evolution has always be also determined by cooperation.
This idea that we humans are in escence competitive is wrong .
Classical economists used to think that individuals following individual interests  and acting competitive would lead to the satisfaction of the whole society.  These theory is wrong.
In humans history there have been a lot of cultures and civilizations that have existed without competition , cultures that have existed in a sustainable way.
I think competition is not something inherent to human nature that cant be changed.
Collaboration on global scale would need a radical change of paradigms, first all those liberal economic theories based on a reductionistic approach should be proscribed as obsolete.
We need to recognize ourselfs not as separate individuals but as part of a bigger community , not only the nearest communities living around you but the whole planet.
We all act in a shared biosphere and exist in an interdependant relationship with nature. All our actions leaves an ecological footstep that  affect the wellbeing and  lives of others human  and species in the world.

I think the posibilities of technologies as crypto stuff and block chain is that it allows new ways of social collaboration and cooperation that would lead to the construction of a new society with a new economic paradigm based on cooperation.
Capitalists markets are gonna be obsolete.

oh sorry , i think i should have started with my definition of capitalism, here we go:

For me capitalism is our actual system based on infinite growth.
Infinite growth is the esence of capitalism and its result from competition.
Competition in the system impose to each capitalist the necessity of growing

tipon, You can't stop people from being competitive or motivated by self interest and you seem to think this is the root problem that leads to "infinite growth" which is your definition of capitalism.  I don't think the definition makes much sense.  Bytemaster said to define capitalism by the actions that lead to it, so you say the action that leads to it is competition.  Well, competition can't be avoided, people are not inherently altruistic otherwise you might just give away all your money.

[Agent86]

oh sorry , i think i should have started with my definition of capitalism, here we go:

For me capitalism is our actual system based on infinite growth.
Infinite growth is the esence of capitalism and its result from competition.
Competition in the system impose to each capitalist the necessity of growing

tipon, You can't stop people from being competitive or motivated by self interest and you seem to think this is the root problem that leads to "infinite growth" which is your definition of capitalism.  I don't think the definition makes much sense.  Bytemaster said to define capitalism by the actions that lead to it, so you say the action that leads to it is competition.  Well, competition can't be avoided, people are not inherently altruistic otherwise you might just give away all your money.

[Troglodactyl]

Capitalism (at least the free market variety) is about competition to arrange the available resources into the most valuable possible configuration without the use of violent coercion.  It doesn't make much sense without scarcity, so I find the suggestion that it's incompatible with limited natural resources rather puzzling.

[tonyk]

If I were to strand on an island in the Caribbean. And I'd get to take 3 things with me, it would be a can of Coca-Cola, 'Cosmo's Factory' by Creedence Clearwater Revival and the complete works of Martin Luther.

Why Coca-Cola?

 

Coca-Cola is in my top 10 inventions of all time also. Not #1, as this place must be taken by air-conditioning…
If I were to strand on an island in the Caribbean - I will take a fishing pole; as books I will take F Nietzsche and… for music I do not know (yet)

Nietzsche should take care of any urge you might have to sustain yourself in this particular situation. So you won't need the fishing pole.

" After all, we needn't disregard a statement merely because it expresses something false" Nietzsche

[Mrrr]

If I were to strand on an island in the Caribbean. And I'd get to take 3 things with me, it would be a can of Coca-Cola, 'Cosmo's Factory' by Creedence Clearwater Revival and the complete works of Martin Luther.

Why Coca-Cola?

 

Coca-Cola is in my top 10 inventions of all time also. Not #1, as this place must be taken by air-conditioning…
If I were to strand on an island in the Caribbean - I will take a fishing pole; as books I will take F Nietzsche and… for music I do not know (yet)

Nietzsche should take care of any urge you might have to sustain yourself in this particular situation. So you won't need the fishing pole.

[tonyk]

On a side note BM is already working toward post fossil world (per OP) already...

*Fossils (from Classical Latin fossilis, literally "obtained by digging/mining[1]")

[tonyk]

If I were to strand on an island in the Caribbean. And I'd get to take 3 things with me, it would be a can of Coca-Cola, 'Cosmo's Factory' by Creedence Clearwater Revival and the complete works of Martin Luther.

Why Coca-Cola?

 

Coca-Cola is in my top 10 inventions of all time also. Not #1, as this place must be taken by air-conditioning…
If I were to strand on an island in the Caribbean - I will take a fishing pole; as books I will take F Nietzsche and… for music I do not know (yet)

[tonyk]

You need always more oil.
Can we change this using block chain technologies?

That is a question for Dan.
Dan can you find a way to use blockchains as fuel/and main ingredient for pretty much everything?
...
I do not think the Prophet will be enough here, you will need the God herself, but let’s wait.

I suspect a DAC may be able to help fund these things...

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/

See he can only fund them

[tipon]

I just did, please read my previous posts.

Energy use is related with specific organizations that adopt societies.
Which kind of social organization would allow a sustainable use of energy?
Capitalism tend to centralism, concentration of power, gigantism, and the creation of megalopolies that are not sustainable.

In which way can block chain technologies made it possible to create new types of social organizations?

You need always more oil.
Can we change this using block chain technologies?

That is a question for Dan.
Dan can you find a way to use blockchains as fuel/and main ingredient for pretty much everything?
...
I do not think the Prophet will be enough here, you will need the God herself, but let’s wait.

I am sorry, but your definition of Capitalism is interfering with the ability to reason.   You are defining it by 'effects' instead of what it actually is...   You then judge the effects as wrong.   

Please describe capitalism by the actions that create it rather than by the effects.

[Mrrr]

If I were to strand on an island in the Caribbean. And I'd get to take 3 things with me, it would be a can of Coca-Cola, 'Cosmo's Factory' by Creedence Clearwater Revival and the complete works of Martin Luther.

Why Coca-Cola?

 

My reasoning was that if I would take a bottle of water I'd perish the same but just one day later. If I'd take a bottle of beer I'd want another one and feel sour, and then perish. While with Coca-Cola I could just sit back and enjoy (or at least that's what it says on the can).

P.S. now that I think of it a bottle of Strychnine would also be a good option, or a bottle with a genie inside.