BitShares PTS2 - Community Input Thread

[Mako]

dear stan ，maybe you dont know that most Chinese investors are realy confused and angry. you have to make it clear ,not make things more and more complicated，3i dacs have not growed up yet. pts1 and pts2 co-exist will lead to many  serious problems. you have to realize it，things are not
that simple...we discuss a whole day long,we will let someone good in English tell that...but you realy have to shot down pts 1.0....i love 3i and i am one of the most bts holder ....i agree 3i every time, and i wait patiently without any words,   but this time, make me feel really really really upset. When i say upset,i mean really upset

[mess]

DPOS frees up 300,000 that would have been needed to pay miners.

What do to with them is the question.

Not mining them (i.e. burning them) would give a 15% one time windfall to PTS holders even though it was AGS donations that made the DPOS breakthrough possible.

We think those savings from that R&D should be used to benefit everyone in our industry.

I think that 300,000 saved PTS honors 50/50 to PTS/AGS would be a good choice.

But how would that bring in more new demand from outside our community?
Wouldn't using it to grow the value of what you have already got increase your wealth more?
We think so, so we have recommended going after new demand and getting the network effect up there to protect your investment from forking raiders.

• Stop being such an asshole to scare investors away, and more new demand will come to you. Seriously!
• NO! NO! NO! It will not! The only way that will increase our wealth more is that 3I takes control of the unmined PTS and hopefully launch a fair and helpful distribution of those PTS, which I don't think is very likely to happen, according to your track record. Stan, you have made similar promises aspirations before and almost none of them was fulfilled. So, please, do something helpful other than BS to your investors!

[svk]

Jeez I am confused.  So PTS2 will not be the same at PTS1?  I thought they would just killed mining, make it DPOS via snapshot and the old network would just be ignored by most people.  Keeping track of yet another branch/currency makes all this super complicated for someone dipping their feet into the Bitshares ecosystem.

I don't care that much what happens to the remaining PTS.  Whether given away or kept by AGS.  What I do care about is there now being 2 PTSs that just muddy the waters even more.  BTSX will be tested, so PTS will just be another snapshot and the old chain can die. Does it seriously need to be more complicated ?

I agree that the old PTS1 chain should just be left to die, hopefully it will happen quickly once PTS2 is launched.

The giveaway is of PTS2 though, equivalent to the number of PTS1 left to be mined, or about 300k shares. So either we scale PTS2 to map onto the PTS1 holders with a ~2/1.7 ratio, or we reserve those shares for marketing purposes.

Say we decide to do the marketing thing, who would control those funds in order to distribute them? I3? A community representative? Do we hardcode a mapping to some other coins? Or would it go to a single address before being distributed? It's touchy issue in the same way a premine is imo, and something that would have to be handled carefully.

[bulabu]

Jeez I am confused.  So PTS2 will not be the same at PTS1?  I thought they would just killed mining, make it DPOS via snapshot and the old network would just be ignored by most people.  Keeping track of yet another branch/currency makes all this super complicated for someone dipping their feet into the Bitshares ecosystem.

I don't care that much what happens to the remaining PTS.  Whether given away or kept by AGS.  What I do care about is there now being 2 PTSs that just muddy the waters even more.  BTSX will be tested, so PTS will just be another snapshot and the old chain can die. Does it seriously need to be more complicated ?

[gamey]

Jeez I am confused.  So PTS2 will not be the same at PTS1?  I thought they would just killed mining, make it DPOS via snapshot and the old network would just be ignored by most people.  Keeping track of yet another branch/currency makes all this super complicated for someone dipping their feet into the Bitshares ecosystem.

I don't care that much what happens to the remaining PTS.  Whether given away or kept by AGS.  What I do care about is there now being 2 PTSs that just muddy the waters even more.  BTSX will be tested, so PTS will just be another snapshot and the old chain can die. Does it seriously need to be more complicated ?

[pgbit]

Bitshares-PTS2 - or another more inspiring name? I like PTS name, just it might be an opportunity to rename / simplify the branding nomenclature, instead of adding a 2; these shares might be argued to no longer be "proto" or early shares, so maybe this would become a misnomer? Also, the full name of the coin is currently Bitshares-PTS, the S also referencing shares for the second time in the same phrase. Possibly, simplify the naming system.

[JoeyD]

stan
why not just use Proof of Burn？
Burn 1pts1.0   you get 1pts2.0 before the deadline
then destroy the address of pts1.0
All the DACs  honor  PTS2.0&AGS  such as  Lotto  DNS  etc.

Proof of Burn would be a good solution in a perfect world where everyone could participate, but it will add time and effort to the upgrade, and it will be perceived as unfair for those missing out on the burn. Even if "burn donations" are accepted over a long time period of several months, there will probably be some who miss out, through sickness, vacations, natural disasters or any number of things that can occupy you for a long period of time.

Those people who miss the burn will be left with worthless PTS1.0 and no way to convert them to PTS2.0. That's not fair, so I prefer letting the two coexist so people can get their PTS2.0 whenever they want.

However, I'm mixed as to whether the remaining 300k shares should be airdropped or not. As Stan points out, giving them to existing holders will give them a 15% dividend, but on the other hand doing a pure airdrop/marketing scheme will dilute them. Let's not forget that those 300k shares are not currently mined, and theoretically represent a dilution of the value of each share if they get instamined this way.

The marketing/airdrops might create buzz and raise the value, but this is still a risk to the investments of current holders. I therefore propose that at least a portion of the remaining 300k shares are distributed to current holders, something like 20% to PTS. I'd even support giving a percentage to AGS holders, as a reward for supporting the development of the technology enabling PTS2.0.

good points. I am also not a fan of burning!

I have to agree. I don't see how burning could possibly work, not even mathematically, because you have to keep mining to even be able to burn and that would mean you'd only get more pts1.0 that you'd have to burn again and the whole thing approaches ridiculousness in infinity but never quite reaches it completely. I'm having a hard time believing miners will stick around till the bitter end without some form of incentive. I'm currently keeping up 1.2/2.4% of the pts-network as a charity, but even I have a hard time convincing myself to keep doing that if it's all going to be burned anyway. (I do not have massive amounts of PTS I only started doing it after all the opportunistic miners left)

Will there be an update for the PTS1.0 chain to fix the difficulty before 2.0 gets released? I think that would be a nice gesture and still give the 1.0 network a little bit more of a fighting chance.

[bulabu]

if someone release a dac and give ptser（not pts2er）some stocks……
ags + pts vs ags +pts +pts2？
the agser will have to accept dilution of their stock.
it‘s unfair to agser.
it's not a good idea.
pts must be abolished or abandoned……

[xeroc]

stan
why not just use Proof of Burn？
Burn 1pts1.0   you get 1pts2.0 before the deadline
then destroy the address of pts1.0
All the DACs  honor  PTS2.0&AGS  such as  Lotto  DNS  etc.

Proof of Burn would be a good solution in a perfect world where everyone could participate, but it will add time and effort to the upgrade, and it will be perceived as unfair for those missing out on the burn. Even if "burn donations" are accepted over a long time period of several months, there will probably be some who miss out, through sickness, vacations, natural disasters or any number of things that can occupy you for a long period of time.

Those people who miss the burn will be left with worthless PTS1.0 and no way to convert them to PTS2.0. That's not fair, so I prefer letting the two coexist so people can get their PTS2.0 whenever they want.

However, I'm mixed as to whether the remaining 300k shares should be airdropped or not. As Stan points out, giving them to existing holders will give them a 15% dividend, but on the other hand doing a pure airdrop/marketing scheme will dilute them. Let's not forget that those 300k shares are not currently mined, and theoretically represent a dilution of the value of each share if they get instamined this way.

The marketing/airdrops might create buzz and raise the value, but this is still a risk to the investments of current holders. I therefore propose that at least a portion of the remaining 300k shares are distributed to current holders, something like 20% to PTS. I'd even support giving a percentage to AGS holders, as a reward for supporting the development of the technology enabling PTS2.0.

good points. I am also not a fan of burning!

[ebit]

stan
why not just use Proof of Burn？
Burn 1pts1.0   you get 1pts2.0 before the deadline
then destroy the address of pts1.0
All the DACs  honor  PTS2.0&AGS  such as  Lotto  DNS  etc.

Proof of Burn would be a good solution in a perfect world where everyone could participate, but it will add time and effort to the upgrade, and it will be perceived as unfair for those missing out on the burn. Even if "burn donations" are accepted over a long time period of several months, there will probably be some who miss out, through sickness, vacations, natural disasters or any number of things that can occupy you for a long period of time.

Those people who miss the burn will be left with worthless PTS1.0 and no way to convert them to PTS2.0. That's not fair, so I prefer letting the two coexist so people can get their PTS2.0 whenever they want.

However, I'm mixed as to whether the remaining 300k shares should be airdropped or not. As Stan points out, giving them to existing holders will give them a 15% dividend, but on the other hand doing a pure airdrop/marketing scheme will dilute them. Let's not forget that those 300k shares are not currently mined, and theoretically represent a dilution of the value of each share if they get instamined this way.

The marketing/airdrops might create buzz and raise the value, but this is still a risk to the investments of current holders. I therefore propose that at least a portion of the remaining 300k shares are distributed to current holders, something like 20% to PTS. I'd even support giving a percentage to AGS holders, as a reward for supporting the development of the technology enabling PTS2.0.

The missed pts1 has value yet. The PTS1 is a brand for 3i. Please don't throw it to market ,it will be fucked.

[svk]

stan
why not just use Proof of Burn？
Burn 1pts1.0   you get 1pts2.0 before the deadline
then destroy the address of pts1.0
All the DACs  honor  PTS2.0&AGS  such as  Lotto  DNS  etc.

Proof of Burn would be a good solution in a perfect world where everyone could participate, but it will add time and effort to the upgrade, and it will be perceived as unfair for those missing out on the burn. Even if "burn donations" are accepted over a long time period of several months, there will probably be some who miss out, through sickness, vacations, natural disasters or any number of things that can occupy you for a long period of time.

Those people who miss the burn will be left with worthless PTS1.0 and no way to convert them to PTS2.0. That's not fair, so I prefer letting the two coexist so people can get their PTS2.0 whenever they want.

However, I'm mixed as to whether the remaining 300k shares should be airdropped or not. As Stan points out, giving them to existing holders will give them a 15% dividend, but on the other hand doing a pure airdrop/marketing scheme will dilute them. Let's not forget that those 300k shares are not currently mined, and theoretically represent a dilution of the value of each share if they get instamined this way.

The marketing/airdrops might create buzz and raise the value, but this is still a risk to the investments of current holders. I therefore propose that at least a portion of the remaining 300k shares are distributed to current holders, something like 20% to PTS. I'd even support giving a percentage to AGS holders, as a reward for supporting the development of the technology enabling PTS2.0.

[sudo]

stan
why not just use Proof of Burn？
Burn 1pts1.0   you get 1pts2.0 before the deadline
then destroy the address of pts1.0
All the DACs  honor  PTS2.0&AGS  such as  Lotto  DNS  etc.

[xeroc]

Your being rude. Stan is doing what he and 3I think is best for their investors and I agree with them. Your grasping at straws here dude. This is good news for all of us.

i think so too. But I expect a HUGE marketing buzz for that money!!!

[smiley35]

Here is a simpler question Stan:

 ‘Why after you announce you *genius* idea how to increase the value of PTS  ” 2x to 10X”, the price of PTS went down?’

I guess your non- full-of-yourself, non-arrogant answer would be that the market is not smart enough to see your genius?
Why don’t you consider for once the more trivial explanation that people see when they are served bullshit?

Your being rude. Stan is doing what he and 3I think is best for their investors and I agree with them. Your grasping at straws here dude. This is good news for all of us.

[Simeon II]

Here is a simpler question Stan:

 ‘Why after you announce you *genius* idea how to increase the value of PTS  ” 2x to 10X”, the price of PTS went down?’

I guess your non- full-of-yourself, non-arrogant answer would be that the market is not smart enough to see your genius?
Why don’t you consider for once the more trivial explanation that people see when they are served bullshit?