BitShares PTS2 - Community Input Thread

[xeroc]

So this leaves two options I can think of either distribute to both AGS and PTS holders evenly or use it in marketing and adding more value to your current investment. Pumping up the value of your worthless shares instead of giving you more worthless shares, doesn't sound to bad. As long as it doesn't pay for wages it sounds like Mess would be okay with it.

sounds reasonable to me

[sudo]

Snapshot+update client  is  simple & efficient
when once   Snapshoted  you can convert  forever
for example  5years later  someone remembered he had bought some PTS at 2013
he find the Wallet.dat   opened with PTSx.0 client（maybe 10.0）,he still has all the shares.

my guess: invictus wants to use their toolkit for pts2 instead of fiddling with satoshi client .. and I can underatand that decision well

 Bitshares Toolkit  embedded  Genesis block？And Genesis block  contains AGS amount list&PTS2.0 amout list？
 when donate is finished   AGS amount list is fixed。But PTS2.0 amout list is not fixed，how to solve this problem？

how about this？  PTS2.0 amout list@snapshot of PTS1.0  & get data from the PTS2.0 networ from geneis  to  some certain block？

[JoeyD]

To the Chinese community and Mess and any that I missed, do you realize that Invictus/Stan no longer have absolute control over PTS, because it is an opensource distributed network? So they no longer have the power to destroy or replace it with an upgrade, like an app in the appstore. Instead of screaming centralization and throwing around some rather serious allegations could you propose alternatives that would please you?

Incrementally updating PTS via consecutive hard forks and new wallets into the proposed DPOS PTS2.0 variant doesn't sound feasible to me. It would also take too long and cost too much.

They can't kill off PTS1, because they really can't, it's out of their hands, it is no longer theirs to kill.

So the quickest route to upgrade to DPOS (which is also the same as releasing the new tech you've been waiting for/investing in) is to go with the proposed snapshot-copy and release of PTS2.0 while effectively still leave all the power and choice to the community, because they do not have absolute control over you or the other participants. Now here's the thing with PoS, to work with the stake it needs to be there, you have to know the total amount to even be able to talk about a stake in the first place. So that leaves the issue with the remaining coins and how to solve that. What should be done with those extra coins that will give you the most return in the long run?

Distributing the remaining shares to PTS-holders is not fair to the would be miners, miningpools and electricity companies, because those are the one that would have earned that value. It also wouldn't be fair to all speculators, because they decided the price on the fact of there being a total of 2 million plus 1% inflation. It also isn't fair to AGS-investors, because they have really paid for the development of the tech and value of PTS and apparently misused it for speculation as well, which means the relative share-distribution can't change anymore either.

Distributing to AGS is unfair to PTS-holders.

So this leaves two options I can think of either distribute to both AGS and PTS holders evenly or use it in marketing and adding more value to your current investment. Pumping up the value of your worthless shares instead of giving you more worthless shares, doesn't sound to bad. As long as it doesn't pay for wages it sounds like Mess would be okay with it.

I'm not meaning to offend, but it sure does sound like people are complaining for all the wrong reasons and actually trying to hurt themselves more than they realize.

[xeroc]

Snapshot+update client  is  simple & efficient
when once   Snapshoted  you can convert  forever
for example  5years later  someone remembered he had bought some PTS at 2013
he find the Wallet.dat   opened with PTSx.0 client（maybe 10.0）,he still has all the shares.

my guess: invictus wants to use their toolkit for pts2 instead of fiddling with satoshi client .. and I can underatand that decision well

[ebit]

Snapshot+update client  is  simple & efficient
when once   Snapshoted  you can convert  forever
for example  5years later  someone remembered he had bought some PTS at 2013
he find the Wallet.dat   opened with PTSx.0 client（maybe 10.0）,he still has all the shares。



POB may hurt someon who forget his PTS，hurt someon in prison & can't control the PTS wallet temporarily。
My  previous reply of POB  considered  not thoughtful，sorry。

yes .in this way pob is not perfect.

[sudo]

Snapshot+update client  is  simple & efficient
when once   Snapshoted  you can convert  forever
for example  5years later  someone remembered he had bought some PTS at 2013
he find the Wallet.dat   opened with PTSx.0 client（maybe 10.0）,he still has all the shares。



POB may hurt someon who forget his PTS，hurt someon in prison & can't control the PTS wallet temporarily。
My  previous reply of POB  considered  not thoughtful，sorry。

[ebit]

simple is the best

steps：

1. Notice Snapshot time  in advance & contact the exchange（mainly  BTC38&BTER ）publish announcement
2. 3I  announce DACs will honor PTS2.0&AGS instead of PTS1.0&AGS
3. the exchange（mainly  BTC38&BTER ） stop trading（just like 2.28）
4. Snapshot of PTS1.0  & Release PTS2.0 client (with genesis block honoured the PTSer in Snapshot)
5. the exchange（mainly  BTC38&BTER ） start   trading  of PTS2.0


ps
Put  the  unmined PTS  into DAC fund。 Promote the development of  DAC ecosystem。

This is the best solution I have heard so far! The only difference to previous proposals is that by not completely kill PTS1, once the snapshot is done and PTS2 is mapped to PTS1, some people might be able to sell their PTS1 to others who haven't followed the thread. Obviously, if we can sell to others  worthless PTS1 after the snapshot of PTS2 for anything it is always good but that doesn't make it fair though and might hurt the marketing efforts...

pts2 should give a new name

[Agent86]

pts1 and pts2 co-exist will lead to many  serious problems.

THIS IS NOT COMPLICATED!!

For anyone who is struggling to understand: all this is is an upgrade to PTS to get rid of mining. 

This is needed and has been expected for a long time.

The way Stan has proposed is the logical way to do this.

Stan is just describing the process in precise terms to let you know he is not a dictator and can't make everyone do something: he can't go to your house and make you stop mining PTS.  He can't put a gun to your head and tell you what to buy and what to sell.  In theory anyone can release a DAC or coin that honors any percentage of any chain they like, but in practice no one is going to honor PTS after PTS2 is released.  I3 will recommend DACs honor a minimum 10% to AGS and 10% to PTS2.

Here is the dumbed down version:  PTS will be replaced by PTS2.

[mf-tzo]

simple is the best

steps：

1. Notice Snapshot time  in advance & contact the exchange（mainly  BTC38&BTER ）publish announcement
2. 3I  announce DACs will honor PTS2.0&AGS instead of PTS1.0&AGS
3. the exchange（mainly  BTC38&BTER ） stop trading（just like 2.28）
4. Snapshot of PTS1.0  & Release PTS2.0 client (with genesis block honoured the PTSer in Snapshot)
5. the exchange（mainly  BTC38&BTER ） start   trading  of PTS2.0


ps
Put  the  unmined PTS  into DAC fund。 Promote the development of  DAC ecosystem。

This is the best solution I have heard so far! The only difference to previous proposals is that by not completely kill PTS1, once the snapshot is done and PTS2 is mapped to PTS1, some people might be able to sell their PTS1 to others who haven't followed the thread. Obviously, if we can sell to others  worthless PTS1 after the snapshot of PTS2 for anything it is always good but that doesn't make it fair though and might hurt the marketing efforts...

[xeroc]

Sure.. practical .. but the 15% premine issue persists.

I am afraid of the public opinion calling these 15% a premine (which its is, if 3i holds the privkey)   thus will tank the price imo.

We should really consider a community fund.

+die pts1 ... die!!!
+pts2 .. tha moon ;-)

[solaaire]

sounds like a practical solution. cant wait to see dpos in action!

[sudo]

simple is the best

steps：

1.3I  announce DACs will honor PTS2.0&AGS instead of PTS1.0&AGS
and  announce Snapshot time  in advance & contact the exchange（mainly  BTC38&BTER ）publish announcement
2.  the exchange（mainly  BTC38&BTER ） stop trading（just like 2.28）
3.  Snapshot of PTS1.0  & Release PTS2.0 client (with genesis block honoured the PTSer in Snapshot)
4.  the exchange（mainly  BTC38&BTER ） start   trading  of PTS2.0


ps
Put  the  unmined PTS  into DAC fund。 Promote the development of  DAC ecosystem。

[xeroc]

Say we decide to do the marketing thing, who would control those funds in order to distribute them? I3? A community representative? Do we hardcode a mapping to some other coins? Or would it go to a single address before being distributed? It's touchy issue in the same way a premine is imo, and something that would have to be handled carefully.

this is THE opportunity to test a community fund with a multi-sig address containing these pts!!!

[mess]

We will offer the best possible product we can devise.
The market will choose whether to accept it.

 

• It's only the best possible product through which 3I can get more money, not the best solution for the community. I don't think 3I and its investors share the same benefit down this route.
• It's not a free market, since you guys have fucked it up so much.

[ebit]

dear stan ，maybe you dont know that most Chinese investors are realy confused and angry. you have to make it clear ,not make things more and more complicated，3i dacs have not growed up yet. pts1 and pts2 co-exist will lead to many  serious problems. you have to realize it，things are not
that simple...we discuss a whole day long,we will let someone good in English tell that...but you realy have to shot down pts 1.0....i love 3i and i am one of the most bts holder ....i agree 3i every time, and i wait patiently without any words,   but this time, make me feel really really really upset. When i say upset,i mean really upset

 
We love pts_dpos , but pts still in market is bad .
 Anyway , then, we should choice a good name for pts2. Such as dacshares.