Author Topic: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset  (Read 2066 times)

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Offline toast

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2014, 09:09:15 pm »
I like "notes" for general asset and "vibes" for per-artist asset.

Example: As alt-coins tend to be priced in Bitcoin on the exchanges, their $ price tends to rise and fall depending on Bitcoin's price. I suspect Bitshares Music price would be very volatile in the first year but we want the price we charge for songs to be stable and the stock prices of our artists to move independently on their own news. Just pricing songs, stocks and graphs in $ with our conversion in brackets behind should largely address this.

Unless BitUSD is confirmed to work and added to bitshares music, the blockchain has no control over USD-denominated trades. Centralized altcoin exchanges price things in BTC for a reason - they aren't trading USD!
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Offline Empirical1

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2014, 11:17:18 pm »
I like "notes" for general asset and "vibes" for per-artist asset.

Example: As alt-coins tend to be priced in Bitcoin on the exchanges, their $ price tends to rise and fall depending on Bitcoin's price. I suspect Bitshares Music price would be very volatile in the first year but we want the price we charge for songs to be stable and the stock prices of our artists to move independently on their own news. Just pricing songs, stocks and graphs in $ with our conversion in brackets behind should largely address this.

Unless BitUSD is confirmed to work and added to bitshares music, the blockchain has no control over USD-denominated trades. Centralized altcoin exchanges price things in BTC for a reason - they aren't trading USD!

Quote
Centralized altcoin exchanges price things in BTC for a reason - they aren't trading USD!

Regards the pricing of songs...

If a song is priced @ $0.5 it simply means when you buy a song you will be charged $0.5 worth of Bitshares, thereby giving you a stable and advertisable price. (As opposed to saying a song costs 1 Bitshare or whatever, the $ value of which will fluctuate wildly.) This is far preferable and doesn't require BitUSD.

- If 1 Bitshare currently trades @ $0.5 then 1 Bitshare per song would be deducted from your account & the artist would receive 1 Bitshare per download that day.
- If 1 Bitshare currently trades @ $0.25 you would have 2 Bitshares deducted from your account to purchase a song & the artist would get 2 Bitshares per download. 

 
Regards the pricing of stocks...

Traders often keep the alt-coins around their current BTC specific level, because exchanges currently force them to place their buy and sell orders at BTC levels, thereby making them mirror Bitcoin price fluctuations more than they need too.

Eg. Bitshares is listed and graphed currently @ 0.0063 BTC (Which is also convertible to $4.16 each.)

Buyers are putting in orders below 0.0063, sellers are putting orders in above.
If Bitcoin's price doubles, Bitshares buyers will end up paying $8+ for a Bitshare even though it may still only be 0.0062 BTC.  Thereby making Bitshares track Bitcoin as opposed to moving more independently.

If on the other hand the exchange showed the $4.16 price with (0.0063 BTC) in brackets and the graph also showed the dollar conversion. Then traders would have the option to put in buy and sell orders around that dollar price instead.

So when you place a buy order for Bitshares at $4. The exchange will simply buy Bitshares with Bitcoin when the conversion rate for Bitshares priced in Bitcoin equals $4. This does not require BitUSD. But making that adjustment would allow alt-coins or other assets to move more independently and fluctuate closer to a $ price rather than mirroring Bitcoin's price.

The concept may be easier to see if we had 'Silvercoin' which was redeemable for one real ounce of silver.
Traders wouldn't want to put in buy orders at volatile BTC levels but rather $ levels.
The exchange would simply calculate the current dollar value of Silvercoins, (Even though it is traded in Bitcoin) & when that current $ value hit your buy and sell level the purchase or sale would be made in Bitcoin.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 11:27:00 pm by Empirical1 »

Offline toast

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2014, 11:29:48 pm »
I understand your point, and I'm saying without BitAssets you can't do it, you can only price things in terms of the asset and then show $ conversion on the site (which would fluctuate). The frontend website is not going to be a centralized exchange company.

Quote
If a song is priced @ $0.5 it simply means when you buy a song you will be charged $0.5 worth of Bitshares, thereby giving you a stable and advertisable price. (As opposed to saying a song costs 1 Bitshare or whatever, the $ value of which will fluctuate wildly.) This is far preferable and doesn't require BitUSD.

For this to be possible, there would have to be a price feed from the centralized exchange into the blockchain. This would mean some central exchange site and the DAC would be intertwined and interdependent - unless the centralized site also had a USD exchange outside of the DAC.

Quote
The concept may be easier to see if we had 'Silvercoin' which was redeemable for one real ounce of silver.

So why haven't we seen a "silvercoin" yet? This is the entire purpose of BTS X - allowing you to trade in terms of an arbitrary asset value on a blockchain, without a price feed.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 11:33:53 pm by toast »
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Offline toast

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2014, 11:34:24 pm »
Of course if Eddie and Cob plan to run an proper exchange as well then this is possible - just not through the actual wallet client, they would be facilitating trades on behalf of their users.
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Offline carpet ride

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2014, 11:48:36 pm »
notes and vibes are definitely outstanding the rest

so many notes on that vibe +5%
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Offline Empirical1

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2014, 11:57:52 pm »
Of course if Eddie and Cob plan to run an proper exchange as well then this is possible - just not through the actual wallet client, they would be facilitating trades on behalf of their users.

Yes I think that is what I'm thinking of. I thought they said in the interview they were running a centralised front end that would be letting people use different payment methods etc. so I thought something like this would be possible. Though it is pretty late here...

Edit: I'll come back to it the morning. In my head it still seems this is possible without BitAssets. like just using conversion rates.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 12:01:52 am by Empirical1 »

Offline toast

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2014, 12:27:44 am »
What we really need is Eddie or Cob to explain to give one explanation so that we're all on the same page  :P
(I still don't know the exact incentive model behind how the shares (vibes?) work)
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Offline Empirical1

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2014, 12:42:52 am »
What we really need is Eddie or Cob to explain to give one explanation so that we're all on the same page  :P
(I still don't know the exact incentive model behind how the shares (vibes?) work)

Thanks for the replies anyway.

With a known $ to BitsharesMusic share exchange rate, which may require a feed from an exchange.
I think both my things are possible. Because it doesn't require being able to hold the value of a $ like a bit-asset can, but just reference that exchange rate to determine how many Bitshares Music units to charge for a song or when a buy/sell order for non $ denominated stock should be activated.

Sorry for the thread derail guys.

Offline D4vegee

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2014, 11:49:32 am »
Blockchain units: Grooves (A-Sides)
Artist Asset: Groovecoins (B-Sides)

Or am i just not getting it..
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 11:52:38 am by D4vegee »

Offline liondani

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2014, 02:16:12 pm »
Blockchain units:
Personally I think this might partly depend on the name of the Domain you end up getting.

 +5%

I would consider pricing the songs and artist stocks in $ for the first year, with the price in our currency in brackets behind it. (These $ prices will be more familiar to the average user as well as the fact that listing songs and stocks in our currency would make them very volatile.) 

or bitUSD ?   ;)

Offline yellowecho

Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2014, 03:59:34 pm »
My concern with 'grooves', 'vibes', or 'notes' is that they'll be more difficult to market and understand for the end user.  It seems like it would be easier to explain what 'votes' or 'slices' are in relation to the asset than 'vibes'.  How much does it cost to play a song on the jukebox?  50 vibes?  Or 20 votes?

We should consider the context in which they'll be used.
696c6f766562726f776e696573

Offline D4vegee

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2014, 04:14:13 pm »
My concern with 'grooves', 'vibes', or 'notes' is that they'll be more difficult to market and understand for the end user.  It seems like it would be easier to explain what 'votes' or 'slices' are in relation to the asset than 'vibes'.  How much does it cost to play a song on the jukebox?  50 vibes?  Or 20 votes?

We should consider the context in which they'll be used.

I hear what you are saying. But wouldn't you agree the majority audience for the Music DAC (initially) are for the younger generation? To start with anyway. They are more familiar with the 'vibe or 'groove' term. 'Votes', (my daughter anyway) would assume 'oh that must be boring' ie associate with politics or something. I just feel the whole branding, which has to be nailed from day one - needs to be young and 'jazzy'. Forgive the cheese.

Offline Empirical1

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Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2014, 07:34:38 pm »
My concern with 'grooves', 'vibes', or 'notes' is that they'll be more difficult to market and understand for the end user.  It seems like it would be easier to explain what 'votes' or 'slices' are in relation to the asset than 'vibes'.  How much does it cost to play a song on the jukebox?  50 vibes?  Or 20 votes?

We should consider the context in which they'll be used.

I hear what you are saying. But wouldn't you agree the majority audience for the Music DAC (initially) are for the younger generation? To start with anyway. They are more familiar with the 'vibe or 'groove' term. 'Votes', (my daughter anyway) would assume 'oh that must be boring' ie associate with politics or something. I just feel the whole branding, which has to be nailed from day one - needs to be young and 'jazzy'. Forgive the cheese.

Personally I think we might be trying to create new words for concepts that already exist - Stocks and Shares.

Hollywood Stock Exchange for example trades movie stocks and shares. They could have created jazzy new names for movie specific stocks, 'slices of pie' 'bits of a box' 'notes on a blockbuster' but we'd probably still end up just calling them shares in movie stocks, it's just a format that hadn't previously been offered before.

I'm not against making something creative and interesting I just think as it's a new concept - trading shares in Artists/Songs it could be best to make the terminology, currencies and layout as simple, clear and familiar as possible to the average person.
(unless there are legal considerations etc.)

(Though as I said before, if the domain name is catchy there might be something that comes naturally off that, which people start using to refer to trading in artists and music in general.)

Offline yellowecho

Re: NAME BRAINSTORMING THREAD: Blockchain units and artist issued asset
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2014, 09:58:41 pm »
Personally I think we might be trying to create new words for concepts that already exist - Stocks and Shares.

Hollywood Stock Exchange for example trades movie stocks and shares. They could have created jazzy new names for movie specific stocks, 'slices of pie' 'bits of a box' 'notes on a blockbuster' but we'd probably still end up just calling them shares in movie stocks, it's just a format that hadn't previously been offered before.

I'm not against making something creative and interesting I just think as it's a new concept - trading shares in Artists/Songs it could be best to make the terminology, currencies and layout as simple, clear and familiar as possible to the average person.
+5%
696c6f766562726f776e696573