Author Topic: Criteria for selecting delegates  (Read 19953 times)

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Offline callmeluc

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Some criteria I use for selecting delegates (in order of importance):

1) Has the delegate revealed their realworld identity?

Exposing your identity is the single biggest deterrent to doing anything malicious.

2) What is their history/reputation in the community and forums?

Important, ideally in conjunction with #1.

3) Are they technically competent?

The client is not yet resilient enough to be managed by non-technical delegates. Delegates should be scripting their price feed updates and missed block notification, and should be able to react swiftly to attacks on the network.

4) Are they running more than 1 delegate?

I refuse to vote more than 1 delegate per person. Furthermore, if a person has more than a couple of delegates in the top 101 I will do my best to vote them ALL out. It is harmful and should be discouraged.

5) What is their payrate and usage of funds?

Obvious, but not terribly important.

Based on these criteria I think the quality of delegates needs to improve.
I'm from delegate team of coin(delegate ID: bts.coin/e.coin/bimin.coin) in China, and here is why I think you can trust and vote for us.

Our members:
      Two members for sever maintenance and technical support, shift for 24 hours, day and night:
      ID: gyhy, in China. Crypto currency and Bitshares fan. Participate in the development of discuss Bitshares test work. Lives in Beijing. 10 year’s experience in Java, Linux development. Good at network layer, distributed systems, performance optimization and parallel computing. Be familiar with all kinds of open source system.
      ID: sfinder, in Canada. Senior programmer, engaged in medical information system integration in USA and Canada. Early PTS miners, initiative the "Microsoft cloud server mining technology". Toronto Chinese students' Extracurricular projects voluntary counselor. Currently guiding students to set up the Bitshares interest group and delegates.
      You know technicist, only thing can prove their ability is how our delegates running. You can check it here: http://www.bitsharesblocks.com/delegates

      Two members for promotion and messages.
      ID: game. Founder of the Binmin China (www.bimin.cn), known as nangongyuan in China, gives long-term research and promotion of crypto currency.
      ID: metalallen. One of 2 famous translators(for bitshares) in China, and the other one is Michellecat. Bitshares & DACs researcher, interpreter and writer. Here is his special column in Chinese: http://www.bts.hk/author/metalallen
 
      One to speak, and that's me.
      ID: callmeluc. Responsible for community and blog promotion. You can find me here: http://weibo.com/1829352501/profile?topnav=1&wvr=5&user=1

Our answer to your questions:
1) Has the delegate revealed their realworld identity?
     Yes, almost every BTSer in China know us. But few foreigner know us because we most communicate and promote with qq and weibo.com.
     
2) What is their history/reputation in the community and forums?
     The same as question 1. Our good reputation is only known by Chinese BTSer. And you can check it from these websites I mentioned in the member instruction.

3) Are they technically competent?
     Yes. Long-term stability is the primary task, and that's why we got 2 members for sever maintenance. Lucky we have them and they did a great job.
     Our server:
     2Cores CPU + 4GB RAM + 60GB SSD + anti-DDoS +  guaranteed 500Mbps bandwidth.

4) Are they running more than 1 delegate?
     Our 5-person team, have 3 delegates(bts.coin, e.coin and bimin.coin), which I consider the best organizational structure for long-term running. We got 3 different wallets, 3 different servers and 3 different nodes for security requirement.
     I think we're Qualified. If you don't think the same, please let me know.

5) What is their payrate and usage of funds?
     Destroy 10% of fees.
     Giving back 40% to the community for the construction and promotion of BTS/DACs. Check it    here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6963.0
     And 50% for the server and operation cost.

We think delegate running should be professional and industrialized in future, instead of one-person-deal with sparetime. That's the reason for trusting this team.
If you need more information, let me know.
Thanks~
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 06:06:21 pm by callmeluc »
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Offline gamey

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Well since I was accused of something I hadn't done, I went ahead and spent a minute doing it.  I found the exact quote I was referring to.

Quote
What is "testz" (an organization?), who are the members of testz, how do we contact those people, and where can we get additional information on the organization and people?

"Where can I get additional information on the organization AND PEOPLE"  rofl.  Ok.  Yea, I'm just making stuff up.  Yea you got me again.  And eveeeerrryone can see through it!

I was trying to put together an upgrade proposal to move Bitshares PTS to a DPOS blockchain. Dan said he wasn't responsible and that testz was in charge. I thought testz was an organization, not a forum user. I needed a person to contact, not their realworld ID, just contact information. It's like if I told you to "contact Bitshares", what would you do? I'm sure you would ask "who are the people in charge of Bitshares?" So I'll let you explain how this is an inappropriate request since you brought it up. But you wont, since it isn't.

You made the accusation, looked through my post history, and took my words out of context to prove that I am somehow prying for personal information. Juvenile.

I am juvenile because I did what you asked ?  Really ?  I know *why* you did it, but you denied that you did it.  Do you not remember posting the below quote ?

Quote
So I simply asked him, "who is testz?" not knowing that testz was simply a user on this forum. Somehow you equate this with trying to dox somebody. I'm sure you wont reply with any evidence to support your accusation. Everyone can see through your shit at this point.

Anyway, I have far too much respect for this forum to continue on with you over this.  You will just incessantly argue and backpeddle over your own actions.  You said that you just asked who testz is and I demonstrated that your request was quite a bit more specific than your version of what you asked.

Most people who want information ask for the organization and then go look for the info themselves.  You on the other hand wanted someone to tell you the organization and everyone involved.  Whatever.  Good day.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 01:01:33 am by gamey »
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Offline alphaBar

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Well since I was accused of something I hadn't done, I went ahead and spent a minute doing it.  I found the exact quote I was referring to.

Quote
What is "testz" (an organization?), who are the members of testz, how do we contact those people, and where can we get additional information on the organization and people?

"Where can I get additional information on the organization AND PEOPLE"  rofl.  Ok.  Yea, I'm just making stuff up.  Yea you got me again.  And eveeeerrryone can see through it!

I was trying to put together an upgrade proposal to move Bitshares PTS to a DPOS blockchain. Dan said he wasn't responsible and that testz was in charge. I thought testz was an organization, not a forum user. I needed a person to contact, not their realworld ID, just contact information. It's like if I told you to "contact Bitshares", what would you do? I'm sure you would ask "who are the people in charge of Bitshares?" So I'll let you explain how this is an inappropriate request since you brought it up. But you wont, since it isn't.

You made the accusation, looked through my post history, and took my words out of context to prove that I am somehow prying for personal information. Juvenile.


Offline gamey

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Well since I was accused of something I hadn't done, I went ahead and spent a minute doing it.  I found the exact quote I was referring to.

Quote
What is "testz" (an organization?), who are the members of testz, how do we contact those people, and where can we get additional information on the organization and people?

"Where can I get additional information on the organization AND PEOPLE"  rofl.  Ok.  Yea, I'm just making stuff up.  Yea you got me again.  And eveeeerrryone can see through it!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 11:49:45 pm by gamey »
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Offline gamey

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I really don't know what your obsession with knowing everyone'd id.  You did this with testz in another thread and I don't remember anything else from you outside of that.  Carry on with your note taking and good day.

Again, I have to respond since you are spreading lies about me. For the record, Dan said that "testz is in charge of Bitshares PTS" and I assumed that testz was like DACSUnlimited - a corporate entity of some kind. So I simply asked him, "who is testz?" not knowing that testz was simply a user on this forum. Somehow you equate this with trying to dox somebody. I'm sure you wont reply with any evidence to support your accusation. Everyone can see through your shit at this point.

Edit: Not to mention how creepy it is to see you researching my comment history. I'm sure you appreciate the irony in that...

"Researched" ????   And you say *I* am making up lies?  I'm telling you what I remember of you as a user and your posts.

First you say "I am sure you won't show any evidence".  Then you imply that I've already looked and it is "creepy" that I did so.  These 2 statements don't even make sense when taken together. 

Do you want me to go find the quote?  Or have I already looked and it is "creepy" ?

And you're the one that is always over the top belligerent telling me all the stuff about incessantly arguing and puking up posts that make no sense, blah, blah, blah.  You can't even maintain a consistent thought in your own posts outside being obnoxious 100% of the time when someone doesn't agree with you.
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Offline alphaBar

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I really don't know what your obsession with knowing everyone'd id.  You did this with testz in another thread and I don't remember anything else from you outside of that.  Carry on with your note taking and good day.

Again, I have to respond since you are spreading lies about me. For the record, Dan said that "testz is in charge of Bitshares PTS" and I assumed that testz was like DACSUnlimited - a corporate entity of some kind. So I simply asked him, "who is testz?" not knowing that testz was simply a user on this forum. Somehow you equate this with trying to dox somebody. I'm sure you wont reply with any evidence to support your accusation. Everyone can see through your shit at this point.

Edit: Not to mention how creepy it is to see you researching my comment history. I'm sure you appreciate the irony in that...
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 11:24:58 pm by alphaBar »

Offline gamey

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I think I was a bit clearer, but my point is that claiming people are going to be beaten up/house burned/dog shot/what have you is silly.  That may happen, but by and large these types of threats are  laughable.  Yes, it is a factual statement.  It is also a factual statement that if you were to open your front door right now, you might be mauled by a lion.  Is that a deterrent to keep you from opening your front door ?   

Let's think about this for a second. You steal a large sum of money from a large number of people (let's say 10,000 shareholders of BTSX) AND your identity is publicly known. You're telling me that the probability of somebody coming after you (legally or otherwise) is the same as "opening your front door and being mauled by a lion." Let me tell you something about this hypothetical scenario, Internet friend. It has already happened with multiple people. Why do you think the Roger Ver hacker returned access upon threat of being doxed??? According to you it was because "it doesn't matter if people know your identity" since this is just "nerd money" anyway, amirite??? Also there would be nothing anyone could do to him anyway!

To summarize your points:

* Delegates cannot steal money, they can only break BTSX (I disagree, but both are bad so who cares)
* If a delegate tried to break BTSX, knowing their identity is of no use

Do you ever just sit down and read what you've written before you post, or do you just puke it out, hope it makes sense, and then argue incessantly?

The thing I disagree about is pushing for everyone to give out their full identification.  I think overall that is a negative thing and hurts the decentralized aspect of it.  Even if I gave you my ID, figured out a way to rob the blockchain, do you think I'd ever be prosecuted?  Probably not.  If I was smart enough to figure out an exploit, I am smart enough to hide it or play dumb.

This bullshit here is why I continue to respond to your nonsense arguments. Nobody here is "pushing" anyone else to give out their "full identification." Show me one post that I or anyone else made "pushing" another user to give out their full ID. VOLUNTARY. Do you understand the meaning of voluntary???

You can come up with a dozen things where hackers were pursued.  Those examples are not that valid because it is always a blatantly criminal act.  If you were to do something evil as a delegate, you would have a pool of plausible deniability as it is an "inside job".   I'm sure you can come up with examples all day, and i can come up with far more examples where something hinky happened and nothing occurred except a theft.

And LOL at you not pushing for delegates to give out their ID.   Of COURSE it is voluntary.  You are not the President. 

I really don't know what your obsession with knowing everyone'd id.  You did this with testz in another thread and I don't remember anything else from you outside of that.  Carry on with your note taking and good day.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 08:14:17 pm by gamey »
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Offline alphaBar

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I think I was a bit clearer, but my point is that claiming people are going to be beaten up/house burned/dog shot/what have you is silly.  That may happen, but by and large these types of threats are  laughable.  Yes, it is a factual statement.  It is also a factual statement that if you were to open your front door right now, you might be mauled by a lion.  Is that a deterrent to keep you from opening your front door ?   

Let's think about this for a second. You steal a large sum of money from a large number of people (let's say 10,000 shareholders of BTSX) AND your identity is publicly known. You're telling me that the probability of somebody coming after you (legally or otherwise) is the same as "opening your front door and being mauled by a lion." Let me tell you something about this hypothetical scenario, Internet friend. It has already happened with multiple people. Why do you think the Roger Ver hacker returned access upon threat of being doxed??? According to you it was because "it doesn't matter if people know your identity" since this is just "nerd money" anyway, amirite??? Also there would be nothing anyone could do to him anyway!

To summarize your points:

* Delegates cannot steal money, they can only break BTSX (I disagree, but both are bad so who cares)
* If a delegate tried to break BTSX, knowing their identity is of no use

Do you ever just sit down and read what you've written before you post, or do you just puke it out, hope it makes sense, and then argue incessantly?

The thing I disagree about is pushing for everyone to give out their full identification.  I think overall that is a negative thing and hurts the decentralized aspect of it.  Even if I gave you my ID, figured out a way to rob the blockchain, do you think I'd ever be prosecuted?  Probably not.  If I was smart enough to figure out an exploit, I am smart enough to hide it or play dumb.

This bullshit here is why I continue to respond to your nonsense arguments. Nobody here is "pushing" anyone else to give out their "full identification." Show me one post that I or anyone else made "pushing" another user to give out their full ID. VOLUNTARY. Do you understand the meaning of voluntary???

Offline xeroc

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I've been researching btsx, and it would appear it's possible for a delegate to raise fees (maybe). Would people be massively opposed to a delegate doing so, but only if they were a charity?

All fees are pooled. So the higher fee charged would only benefit the charity node if people were willing to pay it.
this will probably someday become an issue for the (100%-payrate)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 08:44:32 am by xeroc »

Offline bytemaster


I've been researching btsx, and it would appear it's possible for a delegate to raise fees (maybe). Would people be massively opposed to a delegate doing so, but only if they were a charity?

All fees are pooled. So the higher fee charged would only benefit the charity node if people were willing to pay it. 
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cryptillionaire

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I've been researching btsx, and it would appear it's possible for a delegate to raise fees (maybe). Would people be massively opposed to a delegate doing so, but only if they were a charity?

Offline gamey

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The implied threats about ... jail time "or worse"... are borderline silly and about as flawed as anything in this thread.

So let me get this straight - if you put someone in a position of trust you think it is "silly" to want to know who they are??? And if they steal something from you, pursuing legal action against them is "silly" too? The "or worse" part was meant to convey they fact that there are bad actors out there who will use non-legal means to get their money back. See the situation with Mark K for example. Not condoning that, but it is a factual statement and a valid deterrent for would-be scammers.

I think I was a bit clearer, but my point is that claiming people are going to be beaten up/house burned/dog shot/what have you is silly.  That may happen, but by and large these types of threats are  laughable.  Yes, it is a factual statement.  It is also a factual statement that if you were to open your front door right now, you might be mauled by a lion.  Is that a deterrent to keep you from opening your front door ?   

I've heard/known so many stories of people being scammed and owing 6 figures USD etc.  Never heard a story of anything ever happening to them.  The basic misconception is that you're dealing with nerd's money, not mobster's money. 

When delegates start being paid a lot more, then perhaps I can understand being so demanding of them.

Nice attempt of just making up random nonsense about what I meant.  Just like your childish sarcasm the other time I responded to you.  I should have learned my lesson the first time.  My apologies.

And if you haven't figured out, yes, I think any theft should be pursued within whatever abilities.  That doesn't mean I think it can or would happen even if the person's id is known. 

This is why I decided against running a delegate, too much of a headache having to deal with random people on the internet amongst other things when considering what is gained.

Edit - One last thing.  I fully support this thread and the general direction.  I like the idea of criteria.  I've been trying to push for a centralized area where we have information on every delegate who is serious. 

I'd like to see something like forum post age.  Like coin age used in POS.  How many days have passed since each post.  There are lots of metrics like this that could be used.  The thing I disagree about is pushing for everyone to give out their full identification.  I think overall that is a negative thing and hurts the decentralized aspect of it.  Even if I gave you my ID, figured out a way to rob the blockchain, do you think I'd ever be prosecuted?  Probably not.  If I was smart enough to figure out an exploit, I am smart enough to hide it or play dumb. 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 08:47:52 pm by gamey »
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Offline cryptillionaire

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So let me get this straight - if you put someone in a position of trust you think it is "silly" to want to know who they are??? And if they steal something from you, pursuing legal action against them is "silly" too? The "or worse" part was meant to convey they fact that there are bad actors out there who will use non-legal means to get their money back. See the situation with Mark K for example. Not condoning that, but it is a factual statement and a valid deterrent for would-be scammers.
Except a malicious delegate can't steal from you. Perhaps a double spend attack could occur, but anyone doing so would be promptly removed from the list of delegates.

Offline alphaBar

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You have this halfway backwards.  Revealing your identity could open you up to jail time (or worse) regardless of your performance as a delegate.

For example, if it is known I am sitting on a few million in USD via BTSX, it is far far less safe for me to have my real identity known.  The same thing can be said if BTSX comes under some unforseen legal attack.

You understand that these two are not mutually exclusive, right? I already stated that this is a risk for delegates. The difference is that this is a personal risk, not a systemic one (if a delegate is forced by government to shut down they are simply voted out). On the other hand, if an anonymous delegate or group of delegates colluded to harm Bitshares the risk is systemic. I maintain that there would be no recourse against them.

The implied threats about ... jail time "or worse"... are borderline silly and about as flawed as anything in this thread.

So let me get this straight - if you put someone in a position of trust you think it is "silly" to want to know who they are??? And if they steal something from you, pursuing legal action against them is "silly" too? The "or worse" part was meant to convey they fact that there are bad actors out there who will use non-legal means to get their money back. See the situation with Mark K for example. Not condoning that, but it is a factual statement and a valid deterrent for would-be scammers.

Offline cryptillionaire

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Alright, perhaps I was incorrect in using the term 'requiring', but some comments from users here are along the lines of not voting for anyone who does not disclose their real life identities, and voting out users who don't disclose identities is excluding users who believe privacy is important.

Here is what it boils down to: people can vote however they like. Some people want to vote for people whose identity they know. Some people don't care about identity. We can argue about the advantages and disadvantages of each, but for you (and others) to come here and start bullying people because they have different voting preferences than you is wrong. Who are you to tell me that I cannot vote out delegates whose identity I don't know and trust??? That is the entire point of DPOS - you vote how you want and I vote how I want, each according to his values and criteria. I don't care if you disagree with me but when you start acting machismo (like the dude who had to let us know that he carries a gun lol) and threatening other people because of their voluntary voting preferences you are just making yourself look stupid.

What do you forsee malicious users being able to pull off with one delegate node? Surely this system is more secure than being able to fall victim to one delegate? If you're worried about one user having 50 different identities and 50 delegates, then don't vote in users who offer nothing back to the community.

I described one such attack above. And FYI there is really no way to know for sure the number of delegates that a particular user is running.

On another note - if someone was to break the btsx system, there would be no legal consequences.. this isn't a regulated system, nor is running a delegate providing you a legally binding contract. The real life consequences you refer to sounds like promoting psychopathic vigilantism.

Wrong again. Cryptocurrencies are treated as a commodity asset (ie, property) in most legal jurisdictions, and as a currency in others. Stealing property/money is illegal in most places and can land you in jail. Apparently punishing people for theft is "psychopathic vigilantism." I don't even... how could.... sometimes I don't even know why I try...

At no point did I bully or threaten you.
Yeah, stealing property/money from a person is illegal, but no delegate can possibly steal from you - it's just not possible. The only thing they could do is break btsx, but even then if you just vote in users who offer something to the community and have something to lose (their reputation) then it won't happen.