Author Topic: Interest on BitUSD - A Proposal for Review  (Read 43890 times)

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Offline Method-X

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1) What are your thoughts on putting the "daily burn" toward BitUSD? This way, there is more electoral control over the interest rate.

2) Does this apply to all BitAssets or just BitUSD specifically?
Wouldn't that create unbacked bitUSD?

Ah good point! I forgot that the shares being burned are BTSX and NOT BitUSD.

EDIT: Couldn't the BTSX be used to create BitFiat?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 06:01:40 pm by MeTHoDx »

Offline Riverhead

1) What are your thoughts on putting the "daily burn" toward BitUSD? This way, there is more electoral control over the interest rate.

2) Does this apply to all BitAssets or just BitUSD specifically?
Wouldn't that create unbacked bitUSD?

Offline Riverhead

+5% for the plan

i don't get it how you calculate the time of the bitUSD holding? if i everyday sell and buy bitUSD but my average holding is 1000 bitUSD do i get interest?
I think the idea is for people to hold and use as static savings. If you bought, sold, and bought again you haven't really held it continually.

Offline bytemaster

I am think of calling them "USD Rewards" like a credit card "rewards program".   
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline tonyk

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There is no need to represent a fixed interest rate.

This will be interpreted more as deposit interest and folks are accustomed to banks changing the rate frequently.

Per my last, all that is needed is to market the interest as 'receive up to  5% interest on bitUSD holdings' and then show a graph of historical interest rates.

Who among us wouldn't buy bitUSD with that kind of offer?

Imagine merchants being able to earn interest on their float... imaging APPL being able to get 5% on their cash pile.

I hate the phrase 'up to' personally, I hope it works and I am the odd man out.


1) What are your thoughts on putting the "daily burn" toward BitUSD? This way, there is more electoral control over the interest rate.

2) Does this apply to all BitAssets or just BitUSD specifically?
I think it should apply to all bitCurrencies. As for bitGold/bitSilver, my first reaction is -'NO'.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Method-X

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1) What are your thoughts on putting the "daily burn" toward BitUSD? This way, there is more electoral control over the interest rate.

2) Does this apply to all BitAssets or just BitUSD specifically?

Offline oldman

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Just so we're clear: This is not interest it is a dividend. The holders of bitUSD are participating in a revenue sharing plan. Also, paying out half the revenue as a dividend and retaining the other half as the insurance fund sounds good. The theory that people will look at their dividends as insurance if something bad happens I don't think will fly. The dividend is earned revenue and they'll be upset if they find one day that it needs to be used to bail out the market.


Other than those points I LOVE this idea. It makes a truly compelling case to hold bitUSD.

It has a lot of the elements of a dividend, I agree. I am thinking how to represent it to the people. 'The interest is not truly fixed, but for the last mo/3 mo/ etc it was X%' I do not know, do not like that way too much neither.

There is no need to represent a fixed interest rate.

This will be interpreted more as deposit interest and folks are accustomed to banks changing the rate frequently.

Per my last, all that is needed is to market the interest as 'receive up to 5% interest on bitUSD holdings' and then show a graph of historical interest rates.

Who among us wouldn't buy bitUSD with that kind of offer?

Imagine merchants being able to earn interest on their float... imaging APPL being able to get 5% on their cash pile.

Offline donkeypong

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I strongly support Bytemaster's proposal. We guessed this day would come. Let's tell the world about BitUSD!

Offline xeroc

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+5% for the plan

i don't get it how you calculate the time of the bitUSD holding? if i everyday sell and buy bitUSD but my average holding is 1000 bitUSD do i get interest?
probably not because the blockchain (with TITAN) does simply not know that the transaction are yours ..
You will need to let the sit still .. and unmoved (guessing thought)

Offline xeroc

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let us also have a way (through delegates maybe) to easily adjust the percentage so that we do not need to do hardforks over and over ..

Offline Shentist

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 +5% for the plan

i don't get it how you calculate the time of the bitUSD holding? if i everyday sell and buy bitUSD but my average holding is 1000 bitUSD do i get interest?


Offline oldman

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BitUSD is incredibly useful as a trading instrument but the "sales pitch" for the average Joe is something like this:

1) Buy BitUSD today and you will be able to sell it back for 98% of what you paid for it (due to the spread)
2) Once you have BitUSD you get all of the benefits of Bitcoin, instant transfers, privacy, security.
3) As a merchant the "cost" of accepting BitUSD (at parity) is currently equal to the cost of a credit card (a few percent)

Initially demand from traders will to hedge against BTSX volatility will help the market grow, but what we *REALLY WANT* is for people to store their wealth in the system, not just their trading account.  To do this BitUSD needs to offer a return that is explicit.  IE: it shouldn't be done via the value deviating from the peg.

Right now the network earns USD via the market and via transaction fees (yes transaction fees can be paid in USD).  This income is saved for a "rainy day" which we don't actually expect to happen, but could.  The value as an insurance system could be better used to pay interest to USD holders.   If BitUSD were an interest bearing asset, then the interest would compensate for the risk of black swans in the same way that the insurance fund does today.

So far BitUSD has earned $1800 on $485,000 issuance in just 2 weeks of light trading.  This is about .4% yield every 2 weeks or about 10% per year.   I have no idea how this will play out over time, but I suspect that it will result in a significant yield for BitUSD holders.   The more people hold BitUSD the more BTSX is worth.   So it is in the best interest (No pun intended) of BTSX holders to pay interest on BitUSD from the fees collected.

I would like to implement it as follows:
1) If you hold a balance for less than 1 month, you earn nothing.
2) If you hold a balance for one year or more then you earn (YOURUSD / TOTAL_USD) * COLLECTED_FEES_BALANCE
3) If you hold a balance for less than one year then you earn a pro-rated amount.     (YOURUSD / TOTAL_USD) * COLLECTED_FEES_BALANCE * FRACTION_OF_YEAR_HELD^2

The result is that long-term holders of BitUSD earn much higher yields than short-term holders.  The yield should more than cover the cost of the spread and thus your pitch to the average Joe is much stronger:

1) Buy BitUSD and earn more (much more) on your dollars than you do at your bank.
2) Enjoy all the other benefits of crypto.

This feature would have a greater impact on adoption than just about anything else being discussed.

Discuss.

If implemented/marketed successfully this could bring a tsunami of wealth into the system.

A few suggestions:

- While technically revenue sharing the payout should be marketed as interest. This aligns with industry norms and investor expectations when holding low risk assets like USD etc. Investors will suspect a scam/ponzi if someone is marketing payment of dividends for holding USD etc.

- Interest paid should be capped at 5% and additional revenue diverted to a liquidity fund; no one can complain about getting paid up to 5% interest to hold low risk assets like USD. That is a better risk/yield ratio than any investment in the world. The Eurozone is now offering negative interest on deposits. We cannot fathom the wealth that would pour into bitUSD5.

- The interest mechanism should be implemented on all currencies by default, including gold and silver, but not on other assets like equities and commodities (bitOSTK, bitOIL, etc.). Revenues from assets other than currency and gold/silver should be diverted to the liquidity fund or burned or some combination of the two

- Consideration should be given to using the liquidity fund or some percentage thereof as capital for automated lending, see this post https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7208.msg96159#msg96159. The revenue potential is staggering

Offline tonyk

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I am very exited about this idea. (I know it is mine  :)  )

But:
People using the service - are not lied to- their interest, is true interest, it is known and fully guaranteed by the system. (not the party offering the CD).
People wanting interest on their savings can choose the CDs or the profit sharing - more choices are great, right.

The risk and benefits are taken by the parties willing to do so. Free market at its best!
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline tonyk

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Here is an idea. The proposal stays as revenue sharing plan/dividends.

-At the same time everybody can offer true interest bearing CDs. (fix rate/fix time/known penalty for early withdrawal).

-The amount received in bitUSD is kept as collateral, plus additional amount for the interest promised;

 => the person saving the bitUSD is absolutely secured the amount + interest;
and The person offering this deposit benefits is this profit sharing produces more than the promised interest?

CD seems as US term only - here is the link: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/certificateofdeposit.asp

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 05:17:33 pm by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline emski

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Reading the thread changed my mind.
"Rainy days" fund is better entirely sent as dividends.
And the key word here is dividends (instead of interest).
If this is made clear then this seems like an extremely nice feature.
When will we have it?