Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market

[yidaidaxia]

The overall announcement was very positive.  Overstock is laying the technical requirements for a crypto-system and the work they are doing will pave the way for all of the competitors.   

The fact that they went with counter party means they are dead in the water and will eventually have to migrate to a different foundation.   Why did they go with counter party?

1) They cannot see any other crypto unseating Bitcoin is the digital currency of choice
2) They wanted to securely trade against Bitcoin
3) Their team was available for a buyout. 

Our entire focus of this conference was that Bitcoins real competitor is BitUSD and the fact that BitUSD can be marketed to the masses where as Bitcoin never will be.   By the time Overstock actually releases a crypto-equity BitUSD will have a significant presence in the market.   Traders are going to demand trading against BitUSD and eventually Ovestock will want to list their stock on an exchange that can trade against real currencies.

So this is good for us, they chose a competitor that isn't a threat.   Had the chosen Nxt then I would have been more concerned.   They chose a competitor that will be too SLOW for real trading and too expensive and uncertain.

Their roadmap must include issuing trust-based USD assets on counter party.   Counter party does have "contract for difference" with "price feeds" and thus does provide some hedging options.  It will be interesting.

The BTSX wallet has been built quickly and has not been optimized.  The slowness you see today can be greatly accelerated with a few optimizations to how things are cached on the Javascript side. 

I am relieved that we can focus on BitUSD because it is clear that Overstock is now committed very strongly to Counter Party at this point.   This is a "war" and this battle just shows that most people do not yet get BitUSD... but they will soon enough.

your comments do make sense to me. just one question, in this news, it's said os is hiring counterparty coders to develop their own stock market, no clear statement about it will be based on counterparty or not. actually, if os said os want to issue their own stock on blockchain than it looks like they're going to do it on the counterparty, but they're talking about delevop/own a new stock market/exchange.. really confusing.

[fuzzy]

The Salt Lake City-based company recently hired two of the developers behind CounterParty ... Code-named “Medici,” the project aims to democratize Wall Street in much the same way bitcoin seeks to democratize currency and payments. By operating separate from traditional stock exchanges and the big corporate banks, it could eliminate certain loopholes in the system and reduce the costs associated with issuing and juggling stock ...We think we have the first string in all positions,” Byrne says, referring to Perkins Coie and CounterParty ...The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part, outside the control of the big incumbent banks ... Byrne is committing between five and ten percent of Overstock’s cash flow—”single-digit millions”—to the company’s cryptosecurity project. “Building this—and being the company that owns this—can be more valuable than Overstock,” he says. “It can be more valuable than Alibaba.”

http://www.wired.com/2014/10/overstock-com-assembles-coders-build-bitcoin-like-stock-market

What did I tell you guys weeks ago? The evidence was there in the hiring practices and timing.

You sure did. I thought they were going to build their own tech though...not design something on xcp.

[luckybit]

Dan's immediate reaction was positive and grew more so the more he talked about it in several interviews immediately following the speech (which was awesome).

While it would have been a nice feather in the BTS hat to list them, it would have been a distraction from the bigger goals we are pursuing.  We wouldn't want them to hire away our core team would,we?

Meanwhile we can use all the legal help we can get.  It was gratifying they picked the same law firm we have been working with all year.  Now our law firm will be properly funded to find all the answers we all are seeking.

It is true that building on top of Bitcoin is a serious flaw, but we view it as an opportunity!  Dan is eager to see them start trading so we can accelerate their market by an order of magnitude with bitOverstock!

All in all this will give a sagging coinmarketcap a big shot in the arm and attract new interest to the industry. 

And it's nice to let someone else be the tall poppy with the regulators!

I'm glad you and Dan see it as I'm seeing it. This is positive.

I saw this news coming weeks ago because sometimes you can read the strategic movements of a centralized company by their hiring. This is one area which DACs have an advantage because you don't necessary have to know who a DAC is hiring or for what.

Centralized companies have the advantage of being able to work with regulators. The fact that we now have a centralized representative in Patrick Byrne is great. He can go on TV, give the speeches, speak to the politicians and regulators, deal with the legal situations which we are bound to have to face.

Overstock has the money to support the growth of this industry and what we should be doing is trying to get other centralized corporations like Overstock to rally around a central idea. If that idea is to build a new kind of stock market then it's a start and it's something Overstock, Reddit and many other large companies can rally behind.

This means we now in the same phase Linux was in when big companies started funding development. It raises the chances for success the more we see resources put into the central idea. So it shouldn't be seen as competition like how some people by instinct see it, but more as the ultimate outcome when you're trying to grow a new industry from scratch.

I was surprised to hear overstock going with counterparty.  Thought they were going to use bitshares.   There are still other companies.

XCP is taking off from the news release.     XCP NXT bitsharesX    My three favorite cryptos, because they are focusing on crypto2.0

Too bad I didn't buy any xcp or nxt  but did buy a few btsx, and very happy i did.

Bitshares X can trade BitOverstock or anything else. It does not need endorsement by the company beyond that the company will accept payment in BitOverstock in exchange for shares in Overstock.

I think that could easily be arranged and we could trade on Bitshares X with or without permission.

[mbaeichapareiko]

I was surprised to hear overstock going with counterparty.  Thought they were going to use bitshares.   There are still other companies.

XCP is taking off from the news release.     XCP NXT bitsharesX    My three favorite cryptos, because they are focusing on crypto2.0

Too bad I didn't buy any xcp or nxt  but did buy a few btsx, and very happy i did.


 

[carpet ride]

We should rally to fight this, let others know who was first

Don't be emotionally foolish. We should support this. No one cares who thought of something first but who does it best.

Overstock is about to pump massive amounts of money and resources into an effort we all support. There is enough money to make people on this forum millionaires or even billionaires.

Overstock cannot do what Bitshares X can do because Overstock is a centralized company. Months ago we were talking about how we needed an IOU Gateway, someone to turn our BitAssets into legal securities. It was always the case that we needed a centralized company to do this.

We should connect with Overstock to get them to provide an exit out of Bitshares X and into the real stock market. BitAssets are not real stocks but if they peg to the same price of real stocks then it shouldn't be hard to turn them into IOUs for the real stock.

BitAAPL could simply be used to purchased Apple stock through Overstocks network as long as the network is designed with an open API to allow this to happen. We should seize this opportunity to make sure they open their network up so that Bitshares X can communicate and connect to it.

As long as our network can connect to their network then it doesn't matter anymore. Each network will fill a niche. There are trillions of dollars available to go around so we should all work together.

I agree. Apologies for the remark. I see great future gains due to Overstocks participation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[luckybit]

Its nice to see their is a change in attitude. This is a competition and the best technology isn't necessarily going to be the winner, It could simply be the first one that gets their without a major screw
up. But lets not get lost here it's one company and they have to build from the ground up.  We have time but we should understand time is a factor in everything thats happening right now.  Once
overstock launches this exchange they have a globally recognized name and a legal team that has experience in crypto to jump through SEC hoops. If you read the article it should be noted they
aren't just going to try to launch something for Overstock but a exchange that they will try to attract any "The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part,
outside the control of the big incumbent banks. " All they need now is a bitUSD (their is no reason they shouldn't implement market pegged assets) and wow it is starting to sound alot like bitsharesX.

 

Am I the only one thinking about this as a programmer?
If developers of Bitshares X meet with developers of this new system then it can be designed in such a way where both networks can communicate with each other.

All we need is to make it possible for value in Bitshares X to be able to transfer in and out. If you can send your value to this securities exchange from Overstock from Bitshares X via BitAssets then it's less work for Bitshares X developers. You could send your BitGold to Overstock where it becomes actual Gold.

Now what about that API? We need good code more than anything else. Fighting over politics is fine as long as it doesn't interfere with the quality and flexibility of the code. The code should be a team effort and then let the users decide which platform to use based on their situation.

Some users will not be sophisticated investors so they wont be allowed to interact with a lot of the functionality of Overstock's solution. You can trade BitAssets without the SEC on you because it's not a security but the SEC is going to be all over Overstock because Overstock is a centralized company giving them something to attack and because they are actively trying to replace the NASDAQ while Bitshares X was trying to build a parallel market.

In my opinion this is how it is supposed to be. Only a centralized company can comply with all the legal responsibilities necessary to build a real securities exchange. Bitshares X would have had to connect to a centralized entity either through Ripple Gateways or through whatever Overstock ends up doing.

So it's ultimately just a matter of figuring out how to connect the two networks together. On Overstock you'll have to comply with all the rules but on Bitshares X since no actual shares are traded it's just people trading bottle caps. Those bottle caps are still worth enough money to purchase the actual stock on the stock market though if there is a Gateway to connect to.

If you have 100 BitAAPL then you have enough value to transform it into 100 AAPL. Behind the scenes it could use BitUSD, Bitcoin or cash and no one would really care as long as from the Bitshares X interface they can push a button and turn their BitAAPL into AAPL securities.

[luckybit]

We should rally to fight this, let others know who was first

Don't be emotionally foolish. We should support this. No one cares who thought of something first but who does it best.

Overstock is about to pump massive amounts of money and resources into an effort we all support. There is enough money to make people on this forum millionaires or even billionaires.

Overstock cannot do what Bitshares X can do because Overstock is a centralized company. Months ago we were talking about how we needed an IOU Gateway, someone to turn our BitAssets into legal securities. It was always the case that we needed a centralized company to do this.

We should connect with Overstock to get them to provide an exit out of Bitshares X and into the real stock market. BitAssets are not real stocks but if they peg to the same price of real stocks then it shouldn't be hard to turn them into IOUs for the real stock.

BitAAPL could simply be used to purchased Apple stock through Overstocks network as long as the network is designed with an open API to allow this to happen. We should seize this opportunity to make sure they open their network up so that Bitshares X can communicate and connect to it.

As long as our network can connect to their network then it doesn't matter anymore. Each network will fill a niche. There are trillions of dollars available to go around so we should all work together.

[James212]

Its nice to see their is a change in attitude. This is a competition and the best technology isn't necessarily going to be the winner, It could simply be the first one that gets their without a major screw
up. But lets not get lost here it's one company and they have to build from the ground up.  We have time but we should understand time is a factor in everything thats happening right now.  Once
overstock launches this exchange they have a globally recognized name and a legal team that has experience in crypto to jump through SEC hoops. If you read the article it should be noted they
aren't just going to try to launch something for Overstock but a exchange that they will try to attract any "The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part,
outside the control of the big incumbent banks. " All they need now is a bitUSD (their is no reason they shouldn't implement market pegged assets) and wow it is starting to sound alot like bitsharesX.

 

[luckybit]

This really annoys me. Seems to me we are better across the board, and we have bitAssets.

I hope the crew will give one last shot at trying to form some sort of a partnership. We have a mutual enemy.

Bitshares isn't "better" by default. This is what I predicted would happen and Overstock is not an enemy or competition. Bitshares has to find it's niche and the niche is that you can trade value over Bitshares without regulation while Overstock will have to be in a niche of their own and that niche is they must be regulated. Overstock is a centralized company which will have to use KYC, AML and follow all sorts of legal regulations.

Overstock will lower development costs for the Bitshares X team because all of their solutions can be used by Bitshares X. Bitshares X is not trying to trade legal securities so when Overstock develops their solution Bitshares X can simply connect to it like it's a Gateway.

[luckybit]

The Salt Lake City-based company recently hired two of the developers behind CounterParty ... Code-named “Medici,” the project aims to democratize Wall Street in much the same way bitcoin seeks to democratize currency and payments. By operating separate from traditional stock exchanges and the big corporate banks, it could eliminate certain loopholes in the system and reduce the costs associated with issuing and juggling stock ...We think we have the first string in all positions,” Byrne says, referring to Perkins Coie and CounterParty ...The ultimate aim of the project is to create a stock system that operates, in large part, outside the control of the big incumbent banks ... Byrne is committing between five and ten percent of Overstock’s cash flow—”single-digit millions”—to the company’s cryptosecurity project. “Building this—and being the company that owns this—can be more valuable than Overstock,” he says. “It can be more valuable than Alibaba.”

http://www.wired.com/2014/10/overstock-com-assembles-coders-build-bitcoin-like-stock-market

What did I tell you guys weeks ago? The evidence was there in the hiring practices and timing.

[fuzzy]

There is only one thing I can think of that would compete in buzz....the launch of...



bitCocaine.

[gamey]

Does anybody have any more information about the part where he says he wants to own it. That sounds more than a little worrying to me.  I have this feeling a lot of people are starting to lose sight of what decentralization means. If this turns into a recreation of everything that's wrong today, than this is not turning out well.

Also if more companies are entering this with the idea to "own" it, which is their usual MO, it will also mean that instead of the dotcom-bubble we'll be seeing the stock-exchange bubbles and any other financial instrument bubble.

Jikes, now I'm suspecting loads of patent trolls are already running to get their slice of "owning" the new thing, this will give me bad dreams.

EDIT
Lucky that Stan illustrated a lot of the benefits for this as well. But then again, I hope they'll be doing the legal battles with the focus on decentralization, otherwise those legal struggles won't help much.

I didn't quite catch it all, but after his speech someone who is far more knowledgeable about blockchain technology claimed that some portion of the code will not even be open sourced.   Which I guess goes along with the idea the Patrick Byrne (sp?) wishes to own the exchange ?  Not entirely sure...

The people I was sitting next to in the Bitshares crew seemed a bit down and it seemed a WTF impression was prevalent.

Apparently it has been an "open secret" amongst bitcoin insiders.

[bytemaster]

The overall announcement was very positive.  Overstock is laying the technical requirements for a crypto-system and the work they are doing will pave the way for all of the competitors.   

The fact that they went with counter party means they are dead in the water and will eventually have to migrate to a different foundation.   Why did they go with counter party?

1) They cannot see any other crypto unseating Bitcoin is the digital currency of choice
2) They wanted to securely trade against Bitcoin
3) Their team was available for a buyout. 

Our entire focus of this conference was that Bitcoins real competitor is BitUSD and the fact that BitUSD can be marketed to the masses where as Bitcoin never will be.   By the time Overstock actually releases a crypto-equity BitUSD will have a significant presence in the market.   Traders are going to demand trading against BitUSD and eventually Ovestock will want to list their stock on an exchange that can trade against real currencies.

So this is good for us, they chose a competitor that isn't a threat.   Had the chosen Nxt then I would have been more concerned.   They chose a competitor that will be too SLOW for real trading and too expensive and uncertain.

Their roadmap must include issuing trust-based USD assets on counter party.   Counter party does have "contract for difference" with "price feeds" and thus does provide some hedging options.  It will be interesting.

The BTSX wallet has been built quickly and has not been optimized.  The slowness you see today can be greatly accelerated with a few optimizations to how things are cached on the Javascript side. 

I am relieved that we can focus on BitUSD because it is clear that Overstock is now committed very strongly to Counter Party at this point.   This is a "war" and this battle just shows that most people do not yet get BitUSD... but they will soon enough.   

 

[ripplexiaoshan]

So sad for Overstock that they didn't choose BTS as the stock platform.

[JoeyD]

Does anybody have any more information about the part where he says he wants to own it. That sounds more than a little worrying to me.  I have this feeling a lot of people are starting to lose sight of what decentralization means. If this turns into a recreation of everything that's wrong today, than this is not turning out well.

Also if more companies are entering this with the idea to "own" it, which is their usual MO, it will also mean that instead of the dotcom-bubble we'll be seeing the stock-exchange bubbles and any other financial instrument bubble.

Jikes, now I'm suspecting loads of patent trolls are already running to get their slice of "owning" the new thing, this will give me bad dreams.

EDIT
Lucky that Stan illustrated a lot of the benefits for this as well. But then again, I hope they'll be doing the legal battles with the focus on decentralization, otherwise those legal struggles won't help much.