Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx  (Read 392 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Felix

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« on: October 21, 2014, 02:15:31 PM »

To compensate ags/pts holders, Invictus should use the btsx shares of its own to buy back both ags and pts instead of increasing 20% of btsx total amount. As such, 2 billions btsx shares need not be expanded.  Actually, as Invictus holds a lot of ags/pts, the big part of the btsx shares Invictus consumes still go back to Invictus. I thinks  that this is the best solution.

Offline emski

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1283
    • View Profile
    • http://lnkd.in/nPbhxG
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2014, 02:17:58 PM »
To compensate ags/pts holders, Invictus should use the btsx shares of its own to buy back both ags and pts instead of increasing 20% of btsx total amount. As such, 2 billions btsx shares need not be expanded.  Actually, as Invictus holds a lot of ags/pts, the big part of the btsx shares Invictus consumes still go back to Invictus. I thinks  that this is the best solution.
I think not. These funds should be used for further development.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12058
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2014, 02:33:51 PM »
To compensate ags/pts holders, Invictus should use the btsx shares of its own to buy back both ags and pts instead of increasing 20% of btsx total amount. As such, 2 billions btsx shares need not be expanded.  Actually, as Invictus holds a lot of ags/pts, the big part of the btsx shares Invictus consumes still go back to Invictus. I thinks  that this is the best solution.
I think not. These funds should be used for further development.
*agreed* ... I3 is supposed to build a business .. not pay out shareholders for their quick buck
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline jsidhu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1337
    • View Profile
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2014, 02:36:26 PM »
To compensate ags/pts holders, Invictus should use the btsx shares of its own to buy back both ags and pts instead of increasing 20% of btsx total amount. As such, 2 billions btsx shares need not be expanded.  Actually, as Invictus holds a lot of ags/pts, the big part of the btsx shares Invictus consumes still go back to Invictus. I thinks  that this is the best solution.
I think not. These funds should be used for further development.
I agree since they hold most of pts ags this will simply be a conversion process for them... and at the same time putting upwards pressure on btsx to create some excitement while dacs are merged in... the only time btsx should expand is during capital infusion after voting for new dacs to integrate.
Hired by blockchain | Developer
delegate: dev.sidhujag

Offline Felix

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2014, 02:49:40 PM »
To compensate ags/pts holders, Invictus should use the btsx shares of its own to buy back both ags and pts instead of increasing 20% of btsx total amount. As such, 2 billions btsx shares need not be expanded.  Actually, as Invictus holds a lot of ags/pts, the big part of the btsx shares Invictus consumes still go back to Invictus. I thinks  that this is the best solution.
I think not. These funds should be used for further development.

But Invictus buys back ags/pts by adding 20% btsx shares, which definitely impairs btsx holders. Although btsx shareholders will possibly acquire some shares of future DACs, this is really alike the previous commitments made to ags/pts holders. And now btsx holders think that Invictus protects itself well from any loss and risk!isn't it?

Offline emski

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1283
    • View Profile
    • http://lnkd.in/nPbhxG
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2014, 02:54:44 PM »
To compensate ags/pts holders, Invictus should use the btsx shares of its own to buy back both ags and pts instead of increasing 20% of btsx total amount. As such, 2 billions btsx shares need not be expanded.  Actually, as Invictus holds a lot of ags/pts, the big part of the btsx shares Invictus consumes still go back to Invictus. I thinks  that this is the best solution.
I think not. These funds should be used for further development.

But Invictus buys back ags/pts by adding 20% btsx shares, which definitely impairs btsx holders. Although btsx shareholders will possibly acquire some shares of future DACs, this is really alike the previous commitments made to ags/pts holders. And now btsx holders think that Invictus protects itself well from any loss and risk!isn't it?

You might want to read my "analysis" here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10225.0 .
BTSX holders were promised 100% stake in future BTSX Descendants but not in future 3rd party DACs. With the merge they will get stake in all future DACs. This is fair deal even when 1B new shares are issued and transferred to PTS/AGS.

Moreover regardless of distribution scheme AGS and PTS holders prior feb28 are unaffected. Assuming they still hold the AGS/PTS.

Offline Rune

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1120
    • View Profile
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2014, 02:55:26 PM »
I know it can be difficult to understand exactly why the inflation has to be done the way it will be done. But at a certain point, you simply have to trust Bytemaster and the large stakeholders of the DAC to vote and do what is best for the DAC. We all own BTSX shares, and will own BTS shares in the future. We will ONLY do what increases the profitability of shares, and thus your profits as well.

Offline sschechter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 379
    • View Profile
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2014, 02:59:01 PM »
To compensate ags/pts holders, Invictus should use the btsx shares of its own to buy back both ags and pts instead of increasing 20% of btsx total amount. As such, 2 billions btsx shares need not be expanded.  Actually, as Invictus holds a lot of ags/pts, the big part of the btsx shares Invictus consumes still go back to Invictus. I thinks  that this is the best solution.

And you think I3 has enough shares for the buy back while still owning enough for themselves?  Why would they develop for this ecosystem with no shares?
BTSX: sschechter
PTS: PvBUyPrDRkJLVXZfvWjdudRtQgv1Fcy5Qe

Offline Felix

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2014, 03:39:46 PM »
To compensate ags/pts holders, Invictus should use the btsx shares of its own to buy back both ags and pts instead of increasing 20% of btsx total amount. As such, 2 billions btsx shares need not be expanded.  Actually, as Invictus holds a lot of ags/pts, the big part of the btsx shares Invictus consumes still go back to Invictus. I thinks  that this is the best solution.
I think not. These funds should be used for further development.
But Invictus buys back ags/pts by adding 20% btsx shares, which definitely impairs btsx holders. Although btsx shareholders will possibly acquire some shares of future DACs, this is really alike the previous commitments made to ags/pts holders. And now btsx holders think that Invictus protects itself well from any loss and risk!isn't it?

You might want to read my "analysis" here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10225.0 .
BTSX holders were promised 100% stake in future BTSX Descendants but not in future 3rd party DACs. With the merge they will get stake in all future DACs. This is fair deal even when 1B new shares are issued and transferred to PTS/AGS.

Moreover regardless of distribution scheme AGS and PTS holders prior feb28 are unaffected. Assuming they still hold the AGS/PTS.

I only know that the sum of btsx shares increases 20%. In my view, it is an important rule to keep the sum unchanged. Moreover, PTS holders who have already got btsx shares will acquire it again. 

Offline jsidhu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1337
    • View Profile
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2014, 03:41:21 PM »
To compensate ags/pts holders, Invictus should use the btsx shares of its own to buy back both ags and pts instead of increasing 20% of btsx total amount. As such, 2 billions btsx shares need not be expanded.  Actually, as Invictus holds a lot of ags/pts, the big part of the btsx shares Invictus consumes still go back to Invictus. I thinks  that this is the best solution.
I think not. These funds should be used for further development.

But Invictus buys back ags/pts by adding 20% btsx shares, which definitely impairs btsx holders. Although btsx shareholders will possibly acquire some shares of future DACs, this is really alike the previous commitments made to ags/pts holders. And now btsx holders think that Invictus protects itself well from any loss and risk!isn't it?

You might want to read my "analysis" here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10225.0 .
BTSX holders were promised 100% stake in future BTSX Descendants but not in future 3rd party DACs. With the merge they will get stake in all future DACs. This is fair deal even when 1B new shares are issued and transferred to PTS/AGS.

Moreover regardless of distribution scheme AGS and PTS holders prior feb28 are unaffected. Assuming they still hold the AGS/PTS.

But BTSX holders will not recieve stake in BTSX descendents since it is zero sum. They will only effectively recieve stake in 3rd party DACs thus it makes more sense to create a bitProtoAngel for AGS/PTS purposes and have it freely traded, speculated on as new DACs are released... if they wish to convert their bitProtoAngel's to BTSX it will help BTSX valuation rather than put sell pressure on BTSX when releasing non 3rd party DACs.

We know price falls faster than it rises and fear is stronger than greed thus as BTSX is inflated by x % there is an expectation that price will decrease based on that % to keep market cap even once the stake is received. Usually it will fall more than x % because of fear. This expectation is one of the reasons to simply convert PTS/AGS into a DPOS dac which was the original plan for PTS anyway. Putting it into BTS(BTSX) is not the smartest idea IMO.
Hired by blockchain | Developer
delegate: dev.sidhujag

Offline Felix

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2014, 03:42:05 PM »
To compensate ags/pts holders, Invictus should use the btsx shares of its own to buy back both ags and pts instead of increasing 20% of btsx total amount. As such, 2 billions btsx shares need not be expanded.  Actually, as Invictus holds a lot of ags/pts, the big part of the btsx shares Invictus consumes still go back to Invictus. I thinks  that this is the best solution.

And you think I3 has enough shares for the buy back while still owning enough for themselves?  Why would they develop for this ecosystem with no shares?
hope that BM can give more exact info.

Offline NewMine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
    • View Profile
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2014, 03:54:44 PM »
In attempt to make things less complicated we are making it more complicated.  ;D

Finding what AGS is worth is the hardest part. The fairest way is take the average prices of BTC and PTS over the AGS donation period and the multiply it to the amounts of each coin donated. Add those two together.  This will give you the averaged out cap of AGS.

Now you have to also consider BTSX.  Since some people have sold their AGS accumulated BTSX, we are going to give them a double dip. So you have to conclude current BTSX holders should get a majority of any new shares. This also ensures that people who have bought more in the meantime don't get those shares taken away and are rewarded laterally.  So the FEB 28th should have zero to do with anything at this point.  The fairest way to distribute BTSX so they get the lions share is to take the average market cap of BTSX up to the snapshot day.

Do the same for PTS.

Next Pick a date at which the "Mega" snapshot will occur. It has to be the same time, same day for all chains (PTS, BTSX, DNS).

Add average PTS, average BTSX, and averaged out AGS market caps to get allocation percentages.

Example.

Average BTSX market cap is probably around $65million
Average  PTS market cap is maybe around $8 million
AGS averages equal the guessed $5 million (this one will be harder to find but possible)

BTSX holders get 83% of new BTS
PTS holders  get 10.2% of BTS
AGS gets 6.5%of BTS

AGS should get the least to avoid the double dipping of pre 28th distribution and to avoid rewarding post Feb 28th'ers with a cheaper buy in to BTS.

The numbers above are total guesses and maybe completely different.

DNS  should be an asset like distributions and thus the allocation should be equal to what anyone holds at the time of the Mega Snap.




Offline pc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1012
    • View Profile
    • Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko?
  • BTS: cyrano
  • Witness: cyrano
  • Payrate: 100%
Re: best solution for merging ags、pts and btsx
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2014, 04:52:48 PM »
Finding what AGS is worth is the hardest part. The fairest way is take the average prices of BTC and PTS over the AGS donation period and the multiply it to the amounts of each coin donated. Add those two together.  This will give you the averaged out cap of AGS.

Actually, what AGS is worth is the easiest part. It is irrelevant how much BTC/PTS was paid for AGS. It is only relevant how much AGS holders would have received in future DACs. The conclusion is that the total AGS value is the same as the total PTS value.
Please vote for my BitShares witness "cyrano" and for my STEEM witness "cyrano.witness"!
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

 

Google+