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Online Shentist

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Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« on: October 23, 2014, 06:04:33 PM »

1.
I am a supporter of the merger, because I see a need to only trade bitUSD on a single blockchain. Much easier for the user
2.
If you followed my posts it is not suprising, that I don’t support the proposed allocation of Bytemaster. But reality is, it would be impossible to change Bytemasters view, so I suppose it will be :
80% BTSX 7 % AGS 7% PTS 3% DNS 3% VOTE

Instead of complaining all the day I dicided to make a better proposal to fix some issues I see. My proposal will not change the BTS allocation, but will include some new entity.

Why is the allocation wrong?

If you take a calm look, it is clear that the merger is in favor of the Feb. 28 Snapshot and didn’t consider the risk the AGS and PTS donors took who donored of bought PTS after this snapshot. They are diluted the most.

So what can we do, to fix this unfairness?

I propose to create on BTS the first Asset on the exchange – GENESIS (GNS).

Genesis will hold the promises given AGS and PTS for the use of bitshares toolkit from 3rd parties with 20 % in the sharedrops.

The tweak with Genesis is, we will reverse the allocation done for the BTS creation:

20% BTSX : 40% AGS : 40% PTS or 1:2:2 = = 5 Million GNS

To give Genesis more value I propose as well to use them for the creation of new assets on the exchange instead of BTSX.

With this approach we could smooth some unfair allocations in favor on the Feb. 28 Snapshot.

I hope you like my idea!

More details:

Genesis – 5 Million  GNS – 1 BTSX : 2 AGS : 2 PTS allocation

What are GNS good for?


  • If a new DAC with the toolkit is created, GNS holders will get at least a sharedrop after the max. Sharecount of 20%
  • To issue assets on the BTS exchange you need to pay the fees in Genesis shares!



To make it much simpler for the enduser I would like to price all the fees in bitUSD and we could buy the needed GNS in the backround without confusing the user.

Creation of new assets:

a) BitAssets

BitAssets should be created by vote and every holder of Genesis will be deducted with the needed GNS for creating a new bitAsset. Everyone has to pay, because it benefits the whole community.
   Or
If someone is willing to pay the fees, he can also create a bitAsset

Assume a Altcoin want to be traded as bitAsset, the Altcoin community can create this new bitAsset and can fund it by crowdsale.



b) user issued Assets

Bitshares ME: (no restrictions)
       x bitUSD has to be paid, but in the backround the blockchain will buy the needed Genesis shares on the market and will increase the value with buying pressure of GNS
suppose to create a bitAsset without restriction you have to pay 100 bitUSD and the system will buy the needed GNS

 Bitshares X (for companies like Overstock; legal problems solved etc.)
suppose we charge 0,5% bitUSD for the issued valued shares
example: you create a new asset with 1.000.000 Overstock shares and the nominal value is 1 bitUSD. So the fees will be 5.000 bitUSD to be paid

this is just a quick idea, but i am looking for a solution everyone can agree. with GNS in place the late AGS and PTS donors can compensate overtime the cutted allocation in new DACs and the BTSX holder will also get a fair share.

Offline gamey

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 06:14:16 PM »

I like the first part.  Give BTS something, but it really makes no sense to sharedrop on top of BTS holders.  Thats just reality. 

You start losing me about bitAssets being paid by GNS.. Why ?  Seems like everything becomes overly complicated.  Someone should and I am guessing will create a PTS/AGS snapshot to continue the social consensus.
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Offline toast

Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 06:16:37 PM »
I think this is a good idea. BTS isn't a great vehicle for the social consensus, but GNS could be. I'd say it should just be 50/50 AGS/PTS.
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Offline emski

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 06:18:24 PM »
I think this is a good idea. BTS isn't a great vehicle for the social consensus, but GNS could be. I'd say it should just be 50/50 AGS/PTS.
Exactly! And if III want to honor the original contract their 20% total stake in future DACs should be non-dilutable.
But again if this happens, why are PTS/AGS given a stake in BTS ?

Online Shentist

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2014, 06:18:59 PM »

I like the first part.  Give BTS something, but it really makes no sense to sharedrop on top of BTS holders.  Thats just reality. 

You start losing me about bitAssets being paid by GNS.. Why ?  Seems like everything becomes overly complicated.  Someone should and I am guessing will create a PTS/AGS snapshot to continue the social consensus.

for simplicity i would agree, but to make the whole merger fairer i really feel that the supportes after Feb. 28 snapshot should be rewarded more, because they took a huge risk and loose now much of the promised value.

I would like to see that GNS would not matter in daily life, just if you want to create a Asset or shardrop. I would also like that the Asset could only create in bitUSD and are automatically converted from buying GNS. so for the enduser he can handle everything in bitUSD and for creating new Assets we will have GNS in the backround.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2014, 06:19:50 PM »
Interesting proposal ..

how are you calculating "liquidity" into the PTS/AGS equations?
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Offline gamey

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2014, 06:20:42 PM »
I agree 50/50 too, but in interest of trying to build bridges etc I am also fine with 20% BTS.
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Online Shentist

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2014, 06:20:54 PM »
I think this is a good idea. BTS isn't a great vehicle for the social consensus, but GNS could be. I'd say it should just be 50/50 AGS/PTS.

thx toast - your support means a lot to me. but i would like to reverse the allocation so everyone in the new BTS will have some equal supply. with a reverse allocation no one can argue we prefer someone.

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2014, 06:22:37 PM »
Interesting proposal ..

how are you calculating "liquidity" into the PTS/AGS equations?

i don't, but in fact PTS will get more because only 1.7 million are mined right now and 2 mill AGS are granted. So you could say PTS will get a premium.

Offline gamey

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2014, 06:26:47 PM »


for simplicity i would agree, but to make the whole merger fairer i really feel that the supportes after Feb. 28 snapshot should be rewarded more, because they took a huge risk and loose now much of the promised value.

I would like to see that GNS would not matter in daily life, just if you want to create a Asset or shardrop. I would also like that the Asset could only create in bitUSD and are automatically converted from buying GNS. so for the enduser he can handle everything in bitUSD and for creating new Assets we will have GNS in the backround.

This is interesting.  We need a way to go back and forth with assets.  Say someone wants 20% of bitPuppies to go to PTS, then they can just transfer to those keys/addresses.  Now someone sells 10% of my bitPuppies as something of a crowdsale.   Now when it comes time for genesis block creation, can the asset owners be pulled out for a genesis block creation or is it not possible due to TITAN ? 
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Offline toast

Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2014, 06:28:00 PM »
We can't change the proposed allocation without hurting yet another group.

The #1 group to be hurt was DNS and we are taking lots of effort to make them whole.

The other groups are "close enough" in my eyes that changing the allocation now can only help insiders.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Online Shentist

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2014, 06:31:52 PM »


for simplicity i would agree, but to make the whole merger fairer i really feel that the supportes after Feb. 28 snapshot should be rewarded more, because they took a huge risk and loose now much of the promised value.

I would like to see that GNS would not matter in daily life, just if you want to create a Asset or shardrop. I would also like that the Asset could only create in bitUSD and are automatically converted from buying GNS. so for the enduser he can handle everything in bitUSD and for creating new Assets we will have GNS in the backround.

This is interesting.  We need a way to go back and forth with assets.  Say someone wants 20% of bitPuppies to go to PTS, then they can just transfer to those keys/addresses.  Now someone sells 10% of my bitPuppies as something of a crowdsale.   Now when it comes time for genesis block creation, can the asset owners be pulled out for a genesis block creation or is it not possible due to TITAN ? 


I don't know. But it should be possible to build in a snapshot feature for a share allocation. GNS should only be tradeable on the BTS exchange. So no external exchanges who are not supporting a sharedrop.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 06:33:47 PM by Shentist »

Online Shentist

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2014, 06:33:26 PM »
We can't change the proposed allocation without hurting yet another group.

The #1 group to be hurt was DNS and we are taking lots of effort to make them whole.

The other groups are "close enough" in my eyes that changing the allocation now can only help insiders.

what do you mean? my proposal is not a new allocation. The merger allocation will be aneffected, just the given promise is reallocated slightly and a asset is created to do it on the blockchain without the AGS/PTS outside snapshots.

Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2014, 06:34:30 PM »
I personally think BTSX should keep 100%, add dilution & make a merger deal with Vote DAC. They can also make their best offer to DNS. BTSX can then compete by itself to either copy features or make merger deals.

PTS & AGS can go on as before.

(Edit: I want to bring AGS & PTS into BTSX to make one BitShares, but if the deal is viewed negatively, complicates BTSX and removes income then AGS & PTS are maybe better off competing separately. Though I will get behind whatever deal Bytemaster is for, just as I was behind the original deal even though it was too generous to PTS & my AGS imo.)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 07:17:08 PM by Empirical1.1 »

Offline toast

Re: Final allocation offer - slightly changed proposal!
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2014, 06:35:47 PM »
We can't change the proposed allocation without hurting yet another group.

The #1 group to be hurt was DNS and we are taking lots of effort to make them whole.

The other groups are "close enough" in my eyes that changing the allocation now can only help insiders.

what do you mean? my proposal is not a new allocation. The merger allocation will be aneffected, just the given promise is reallocated slightly and a asset is created to do it on the blockchain without the AGS/PTS outside snapshots.

What do you mean "the given promise is reallocated?"  -  you just mean using AGS/PTS-based snapshots via GNS instead of BTS-based snapshots, right?
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

 

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