Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.

[klosure]

We may not need to pay 2M for a deal.

I agree but for a different reason. We won't end up paying 2M because other actors will be interested in taking a stake in BTER as well. BTER founders themselves certainly won't want to be completely out, and they must have investors, not to mention risk takers in the crypto community at large. What matters is that the IPO itself be done as a Bitshares DAC.

If we could work out a good deal with Bter, perhaps in the region of a few hundred BTCs to entice the thief to return funds.

This time the thief won't return the funds. Last time, the money stollen was in NXT and BTER was the only exchange with actual liquidity and had stopped operations, so the hacker had no way of converting his loot to fiat. If you followed what happened, he traded 85% of his NXT stash for a couple hundred BTCs and then stopped. The reason for that is obvious: after giving back 85% of the NXT, BTER was going to resume operations, and NXT would survive, so the hacker would be able to launder his remaining 15% stash later on.  This time around, the hacker is holding the most liquid crypto around, and has a wide variety of tools to launder the funds and many outlets to cash out. He has no incentrive to return the funds unless he gets doxxed.
So it's safer to assume that BTER won't get back the funds, and is going to go belly up. We should start thinking what that means for Bitshares, and act before it's too late.

we could get licenses to put up an on/off ramp, bter's user base, its 2-year experiences in exchange running, its good reputation with the Chinese community.  We need a good business dev (Gentso1) to start the negotiation though.

Exactly. BTER is very valuable and 2M isn't that much money in fact. Coinbase has raised 78M in their last round of fund raising, and you would have a hard time finding an established exchange that doesn't raise funds to the tune of millions.

[Troglodactyl]

BTER's USD was all frozen even before the hack, so they weren't a direct USD on-ramp at all.  Is the hack supposed to help fix that somehow?

We would need to do our due diligence if we indeed wanted to buy bter.  Questions like why Bter's USD was frozen? Can they unfreeze it? Can their licenses be used for USD, CNY and what other fiats? 

But first, we need the see the value proposition and then agree/disagree on moving forward with helping bter.

They only supported USD through a single third party payment processor - EgoPay, and then they killed even that.  So basically they used a centralized gateway on-ramp onto their centralized exchange.  We already have a decentralized exchange and need an onramp, and they had a centralized exchange and needed an onramp.

The only thing they had that I used was onramp from BTC and other crypto to BTS and bitAssets.

EDIT: I just noticed Bittrex.com has BTS.  Does anyone have experience with them?

[klosure]

Ok we are now short one on/off ramp, a rather large one, but there are more, and more are in the works as we speak.

That on/off ramp is 50% of our customer base. You have just no idea how badly this will hurt the demand for bit assets and BTS. Our market cap will drop by much more than 2M if BTER goes belly up.

2 million to buy a huge user base. You still think this will be a huge user base after this?

If BTER is put under decentralized dac-based management and cold wallet access moved to delegate controlled multisign, this will be a first in crypto history and I would be very surprised if the user base doesn't actually become bigger.

For marketing and PR we would hit most crypto news sites for sure. But is this the kind of marketing an PR we need?

Yes. 100 times Yes. Bitshares has been a marketing non-event since inception. We direly need to start to exist as something news worthy in the mind of our target customer base. Yes this will cost 20x Brian Page's yearly salary, but this will do 1000x time the effect all at once. It's not even speculation: by owning BTER, you effectively have all the altcoin community as a userbase and they'll keeping hearing about Bitshares every time they login to BTER.

We are sending out an message that a decentralised exchange fully depends on central exchanges to operate.

No, we are sending the message that we are a big player capable of acquiring companies, and have an influence in the real world. Being decentralized doesn't mean being completely cut from the real world. That's autism, not decentralization.

Seriously the reality check is on your end.

We shall see.
Hint: there is a reason why NXT almost considered a rollback last time BTER got hacked and strayed involve until a solution was found.

We have to take our losses and move on, without BTER. Nobody will care if BTER is run by a DAC, except this community.

Right, none of the thousands of altcoiners who have balances in BTER will appreciate to find out that they haven't lost their balance after all, and none of them will be interested to know that the cold wallets are becoming multisign and management is transparent, and none of the news outlet will relay that. We must definitely live in a very different reality.

[cube]

BTER's USD was all frozen even before the hack, so they weren't a direct USD on-ramp at all.  Is the hack supposed to help fix that somehow?

We would need to do our due diligence if we indeed wanted to buy bter.  Questions like why Bter's USD was frozen? Can they unfreeze it? Can their licenses be used for USD, CNY and what other fiats? 

But first, we need the see the value proposition and then agree/disagree on moving forward with helping bter.

[Troglodactyl]

If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?

+5%

Bter has been forthcoming  and recovered well from their NXT hacked.  Now they are facing their second crisis but yet again they are forthcoming  with updates.  Bter has a good following of Chinese community.  Bter was a big exchange for bts before the hack.  If Bter does well, BTS does well too. 

Bter has real world licenses that could be used to perform fiat <-> bts and fiat <-> bitUSD/bitCNY ie on/off-ramp.  If BTS buy out Bter, it gives a big boost to bter (ie increase confidence in their finances) and a huge marketing buzz to BTS  (finally a on/off-ramp!).   This solves a big problem for BTS. Win-Win.

BTER's USD was all frozen even before the hack, so they weren't a direct USD on-ramp at all.  Is the hack supposed to help fix that somehow?

[cube]

Ofcourse this whole BTER mess is a serious blow for BTS.
I still think this is a delusional solution, and I really hope, that the community will have the sense to call this off.

Ok we are now short one on/off ramp, a rather large one, but there are more, and more are in the works as we speak.
2 million to buy a huge user base. You still think this will be a huge user base after this?
For marketing and PR we would hit most crypto news sites for sure. But is this the kind of marketing an PR we need? We are sending out an message that a decentralised exchange fully depends on central exchanges to operate.

Seriously the reality check is on your end. We have to take our losses and move on, without BTER. Nobody will care if BTER is run by a DAC, except this community.

We may not need to pay 2M for a deal. If we could work out a good deal with Bter, perhaps in the region of a few hundred BTCs to entice the thief to return funds, we could get licenses to put up an on/off ramp, bter's user base, its 2-year experiences in exchange running, its good reputation with the Chinese community.  We need a good business dev (Gentso1) to start the negotiation though.

[graffenwalder]

Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.

+5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?

Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.

Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.

It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there.  Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.

Ofcourse this whole BTER mess is a serious blow for BTS.
I still think this is a delusional solution, and I really hope, that the community will have the sense to call this off.

Ok we are now short one on/off ramp, a rather large one, but there are more, and more are in the works as we speak.
2 million to buy a huge user base. You still think this will be a huge user base after this?
For marketing and PR we would hit most crypto news sites for sure. But is this the kind of marketing an PR we need? We are sending out an message that a decentralised exchange fully depends on central exchanges to operate.

Seriously the reality check is on your end. We have to take our losses and move on, without BTER. Nobody will care if BTER is run by a DAC, except this community.

[Frodo]

If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?

+5%

Bter has been forthcoming  and recovered well from their NXT hacked.  Now they are facing their second crisis but yet again they are forthcoming  with updates.  Bter has a good following of Chinese community.  Bter was a big exchange for bts before the hack.  If Bter does well, BTS does well too. 

Bter has real world licenses that could be used to perform fiat <-> bts and fiat <-> bitUSD/bitCNY ie on/off-ramp.  If BTS buy out Bter, it gives a big boost to bter (ie increase confidence in their finances) and a huge marketing buzz to BTS  (finally a on/off-ramp!).   This solves a big problem for BTS. Win-Win.

Agreed. BTER as on/off-ramp would be epic. Their sevice was always good and reliable.

[fav]

Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.

+5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?

Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.

Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.

It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there.  Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.

Fully agree. I don't like bter, but it's needed for bts.

[cube]

If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?

+5%

Bter has been forthcoming  and recovered well from their NXT hacked.  Now they are facing their second crisis but yet again they are forthcoming  with updates.  Bter has a good following of Chinese community.  Bter was a big exchange for bts before the hack.  If Bter does well, BTS does well too. 

Bter has real world licenses that could be used to perform fiat <-> bts and fiat <-> bitUSD/bitCNY ie on/off-ramp.  If BTS buy out Bter, it gives a big boost to bter (ie increase confidence in their finances) and a huge marketing buzz to BTS  (finally a on/off-ramp!).   This solves a big problem for BTS. Win-Win. 

[merlin0113]

Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.

+5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?

Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.

Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.

It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there.  Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.

If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?

[klosure]

Created a thread to discuss this further. Please post your replies there and let's keep this thread to discuss the evolution of the situation at BTER.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14311.0

[klosure]

Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.

+5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?

Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.

Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.

It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there.  Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.

[Method-X]

Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.

+5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?

[graffenwalder]

Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.

Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.