Author Topic: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds  (Read 3205 times)

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Offline Thom

This poll will decide where gentso's delegate pay (85% of a 100% delegate) will be redirected. I will retain my existing 15% fee to maintain the delegate node and supply 24 feeds, and handle any oversight of the chosen recipient(s) should the community decide later this redirection should be changed.

I want to stress this redirection is subject to change based on community input, though it will not be changed without a solid case being made here in the forum and well in advance. These funds will of course disappear should delegate.verbaltech be voted out of the 101.

I have tried to provide a wide range of poll options to choose between, including the last 2 open ended "write ins" which may need a different poll to sort through if lots of other options are suggested. Based on the response to this so far I don't think that will be necessary.

I have given this poll 3 days to finish, which will be on Thursday. Final discussion and decision will be made at the end of Friday's mumble and funds will start flowing immediately. I will set the payout period to be every 7 days.

It should also be emphasized that delegate.verbaltech was voted in based on it's business development / marketing value. Some of the poll choices do not represent that but may be worthy alternatives.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline Thom

Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2015, 02:06:48 pm »
From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2015, 02:20:23 pm »
From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?

Your poll is not really fair... You have a whole bunch of options that say to distribute the funds, but only 1 option to destroy the funds.  This is forcing the voters who would like to see them used for something to spread out their votes.

The more realistic poll results would be:

16- Distribute to a delegate to use for work
14-Burn
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 07:02:49 pm by lil_jay890 »

Offline pc

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Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2015, 06:55:02 pm »
From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?

You don't burn by sending to an address. There's a burn command in the CLI:

Code: [Select]
wallet_burn <amount_to_burn> <asset_symbol> <from_account_name> <for_or_against> <to_account_name> [public_message] [anonymous]
Burns given amount to the given account.  This will allow you to post message and +/- sentiment on someones account as a form of reputation.                                                 
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Offline BunkerChainLabs-com

Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2015, 07:02:23 pm »
From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?

If the final say is burn.. then you should be taking the delegate offline again and letting it get voted down. That is essentially what the poll is saying if you are to interpret that as such. Let the whole delegate go down just like tradebts.gulu in this case.

lil_lay890 also brought up a good point that the final 'consensus' if you want to call it that was in favor of putting the funds to work in some way. I agree with this position more so. The delegate was voted to work for bitshares, not burn... otherwise someone else is being denied the right to be voted in. Most people are not aware of what has happened to your delegate.
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Offline Pheonike

Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2015, 07:04:35 pm »

The majority of people want it to be distributed, so as long and the the total is more than burn you should consider picking the highest distribution option.

Offline Thom

Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2015, 07:06:09 pm »
From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?

You don't burn by sending to an address. There's a burn command in the CLI:

Code: [Select]
wallet_burn <amount_to_burn> <asset_symbol> <from_account_name> <for_or_against> <to_account_name> [public_message] [anonymous]
Burns given amount to the given account.  This will allow you to post message and +/- sentiment on someones account as a form of reputation.                                                 

Bummer. That means I can't simply replace gentso's address in the payroll config to burn his funds. Looks like I need to modify the payroll plugin in bts_tools in order to automate this burn process. That should be easy. Thanks PC for the info.

From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?

Your poll is not really fair... You have a hole bunch of options that say to distribute the funds, but only 1 option to destroy the funds.  This is forcing the voters who would like to see them used for something to spread out their votes.

The more realistic poll results would be:

16- Distribute to a delegate to use for work
14-Burn

I respectfully but emphatically disagree lil_jay.

I provided many options, including the 2 last options where you can express exactly how you want the funds redirected (specify your desires in this thread).

I don't understand your proposal. You failed to say WHICH delegate should receive the funds (16- Distribute to a delegate to use for work), and that's the primary reason for this poll.

I think your objection is a moot point anyway, as it looks like the majority of those voting want the funds burned (15 out of 32 voting as of now) rather than redirected.

If these results stand at the end of the mumble, I will change the payroll plugin to burn gentso's portion.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline sschechter

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Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2015, 07:09:57 pm »
I think arbitrarily burning funds is stupid.  It only makes sense from a value perspective when everyone knows exactly what has been burned.  There is no depreciation if we can't track exactly whats been burned.  If your friend drops $1 down in the sewer, it doesn't make your $1 more valuable.  In abstract theory, maybe, but in practice, it has no effect.
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Offline Thom

Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2015, 07:15:39 pm »
From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?

If the final say is burn.. then you should be taking the delegate offline again and letting it get voted down. That is essentially what the poll is saying if you are to interpret that as such. Let the whole delegate go down just like tradebts.gulu in this case.

lil_lay890 also brought up a good point that the final 'consensus' if you want to call it that was in favor of putting the funds to work in some way. I agree with this position more so. The delegate was voted to work for bitshares, not burn... otherwise someone else is being denied the right to be voted in. Most people are not aware of what has happened to your delegate.

I don't understand, as I just posted in my reply to PC & lil_jay.

I agree with you concerning the applied to some effort vs. burn, however the poll results show the majority of those voting are NOT voting to redirect but rather to burn. This seems to conflict with what you are saying.

As I said from the start, this entire concern goes away if delegate.verbaltech gets voted out. That is not my choice to make. I wish to operate a witness when 2.0 is released, should that be an option. To that end I will not terminate the delegate myself. I am only trying to make the best of a bad situation, and be respectful of the community at the same time.

I welcome all comments.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline BunkerChainLabs-com

Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2015, 07:20:14 pm »
From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?

You don't burn by sending to an address. There's a burn command in the CLI:

Code: [Select]
wallet_burn <amount_to_burn> <asset_symbol> <from_account_name> <for_or_against> <to_account_name> [public_message] [anonymous]
Burns given amount to the given account.  This will allow you to post message and +/- sentiment on someones account as a form of reputation.                                                 

Bummer. That means I can't simply replace gentso's address in the payroll config to burn his funds. Looks like I need to modify the payroll plugin in bts_tools in order to automate this burn process. That should be easy. Thanks PC for the info.

From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?

Your poll is not really fair... You have a hole bunch of options that say to distribute the funds, but only 1 option to destroy the funds.  This is forcing the voters who would like to see them used for something to spread out their votes.

The more realistic poll results would be:

16- Distribute to a delegate to use for work
14-Burn

I respectfully but emphatically disagree lil_jay.

I provided many options, including the 2 last options where you can express exactly how you want the funds redirected (specify your desires in this thread).

I don't understand your proposal. You failed to say WHICH delegate should receive the funds (16- Distribute to a delegate to use for work), and that's the primary reason for this poll.

I think your objection is a moot point anyway, as it looks like the majority of those voting want the funds burned (15 out of 32 voting as of now) rather than redirected.

If these results stand at the end of the mumble, I will change the payroll plugin to burn gentso's portion.

Delegate should die then.. you provided every option in the poll except for that option. This is denying good delegates a position in the 101 who can do good for bitshares. The delegate was voted in to work, not to be burned. Maintaining the position is denying the votes that wanted a 100% delegate working for bitshares.

Majority consensus voted for the delegate to continue to provide support to bitshares in divided options. You have denied the consensus.

I will be removing all my votes and my slates from voting for this delegate today and urge you to post an update about the no longer functional delegate position you are maintaining in your delegate proposal/update thread.
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Offline Thom

Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2015, 07:21:13 pm »

The majority of people want it to be distributed, so as long and the the total is more than burn you should consider picking the highest distribution option.

But the majority of those voting don't want it distributed. 15 votes were cast to burn, the rest of the votes are scattered among the other options.

It's not the option I prefer, but that's just me. My vote carries no more weight than any other's. In fact I wouldn't have voted at all if I could see the poll results.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline BunkerChainLabs-com

Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2015, 07:24:42 pm »

The majority of people want it to be distributed, so as long and the the total is more than burn you should consider picking the highest distribution option.

But the majority of those voting don't want it distributed. 15 votes were cast to burn, the rest of the votes are scattered among the other options.

It's not the option I prefer, but that's just me. My vote carries no more weight than any other's. In fact I wouldn't have voted at all if I could see the poll results.

17 votes for funds to be redirected to work
15 votes for burn

Consensus denied.. just going to burn anyways << message you are sending.

You must make a post to notify those that voted for you tat your delegate is no longer working for bitshares and they should remove their votes.
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Offline pc

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Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2015, 07:26:35 pm »
I think arbitrarily burning funds is stupid.  It only makes sense from a value perspective when everyone knows exactly what has been burned.  There is no depreciation if we can't track exactly whats been burned.

Burned BTS are visible in the blockchain, and the client should adjust the total share supply accordingly.
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Offline lil_jay890

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Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2015, 07:27:09 pm »
From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?

You don't burn by sending to an address. There's a burn command in the CLI:

Code: [Select]
wallet_burn <amount_to_burn> <asset_symbol> <from_account_name> <for_or_against> <to_account_name> [public_message] [anonymous]
Burns given amount to the given account.  This will allow you to post message and +/- sentiment on someones account as a form of reputation.                                                 

Bummer. That means I can't simply replace gentso's address in the payroll config to burn his funds. Looks like I need to modify the payroll plugin in bts_tools in order to automate this burn process. That should be easy. Thanks PC for the info.

From what I see now it looks like the consensus is for burning all 85% of gentso's delegate pay.

If that holds true by tomorrow I will redirect that pay to the burn bucket.

What address constitutes a verifiable burn address? I tried to search for "burn" and "burn address" here in the forum but could not find such an address. What's the best way to accomplish burning funds now?

Your poll is not really fair... You have a hole bunch of options that say to distribute the funds, but only 1 option to destroy the funds.  This is forcing the voters who would like to see them used for something to spread out their votes.

The more realistic poll results would be:

16- Distribute to a delegate to use for work
14-Burn

I respectfully but emphatically disagree lil_jay.

I provided many options, including the 2 last options where you can express exactly how you want the funds redirected (specify your desires in this thread).

I don't understand your proposal. You failed to say WHICH delegate should receive the funds (16- Distribute to a delegate to use for work), and that's the primary reason for this poll.

I think your objection is a moot point anyway, as it looks like the majority of those voting want the funds burned (15 out of 32 voting as of now) rather than redirected.

If these results stand at the end of the mumble, I will change the payroll plugin to burn gentso's portion.

Thom,  A fair poll would read something like this:

[
A: Burn
B: Distribute to delegates/workers

If B garners the most votes then a separate poll will be created for distribution of funds
]

Right now all the people who want to distribute the funds need to pick 1 of several answers.  While people who want to burn only have to chose 1 option.  Therefore you are dividing the votes of distributers and concentrating those of burners.  In order for the distributers to win, they would all have to agree upon a certain distribution right off the bat without any debate, which is very unlikely.  Do you see what I mean now?

Offline Thom

Re: Please cast your vote for where to send gentso's delegate funds
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2015, 07:34:40 pm »
Delegate should die then.. you provided every option in the poll except for that option. This is denying good delegates a position in the 101 who can do good for bitshares. The delegate was voted in to work, not to be burned. Maintaining the position is denying the votes that wanted a 100% delegate working for bitshares.

Majority consensus voted for the delegate to continue to provide support to bitshares in divided options. You have denied the consensus.

I will be removing all my votes and my slates from voting for this delegate today and urge you to post an update about the no longer functional delegate position you are maintaining in your delegate proposal/update thread.

I have denied nothing. The delegate is still securing the network. That has value. You do what you will Jonathon. As a "threat" that is meaningless to me. If delegate.verbaltech is voted out so be it, no regrets. But I will not hasten it along. All I will do is find a place for the 85% based on this poll.

Also, please keep in mind I could have kept my mouth shut and not done any of this, so DSN's demand that I voluntarily kill the delegate would leave a gap in security, which from the start he said was his main concern. Sounds like that may not actually be your primary concern. You're just looking for an easy opportunity to gain yet another delegate. You're not the only one trying to survive a bad economy Jonathon.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html