Author Topic: Metatrader 4 and Bitshares  (Read 19914 times)

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Offline .

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... it says: "We are also investigating supporting de-centralized exchanges."

Offline Akado

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And I just made contact with the CEO of marginsoftware.com. They are VERY interested in BitShares in general and intend to implement BitShares aswell! They say great potential

Did this result in something?
yes

try the link yourself and see.

There's no mention of BitShares/OpenLedger on http://marginsoftware.de/index.html
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Offline jambo110

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And I just made contact with the CEO of marginsoftware.com. They are VERY interested in BitShares in general and intend to implement BitShares aswell! They say great potential

Did this result in something?
yes

try the link yourself and see.

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That's awesome guys.

Good work!!!

Offline Akado

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And I just made contact with the CEO of marginsoftware.com. They are VERY interested in BitShares in general and intend to implement BitShares aswell! They say great potential

Did this result in something?
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Offline puppies

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I dont see any reason why whoever gets mt4 integrated couldn't charge significantly more than what bts charges.  If the integration used our standard transactions it could simply have an extra transaction on every trade that charges the $1 fee.   I am guessing that all mt4 traffic would be piped through a central server somewhere, and thus transactions could be refused by those that aren't willing to pay the fee. 

If we were going to go with a FBA approach, I think that it would be smartest to design new operations that integrate with the mt4 client, and would automatically charge the appropriate fee.  If we could get those 60k traders mentioned above to each pay $1 per trade we should be able to recover that quarter mil.

I don't have $250,000 hanging about.  I also don't have any mt4 experience or connections in the retail trading business.  I would however potentially buy an FBA to help raise the money, and hopefully share in the profits.
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Offline Akado

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Would it make sense to integrate this in BitShares and pay via worker proposal or do you think this should be something a 3rd party service should add themselves in order to have advantage over the competition?

Doing it for BitShares might be faster and attract more people
Having a 3rd party doing it saves shareholders money but we dont know if we are ever going to have someone implement this

Any idea on how much this would cost? @monsterer

I'm unsure what the trading fee's are now since the recent changes.  I thought the only way to make this work would be to use the referral program.  Now that fees are so low it seems extremely difficult to make a profit.

I'm guessing by the time we purchase the license and do all the programming to integrate MT4 it would be 150-200k.

A profitable way to do MT4 would be for a 3rd party to offer the platform and be the counterparty for their clients trades (90% of retail forex traders lose money) and widen the spread slightly higher than what DEX actually is a pocket the spread.  If a client takes on a large enough position, the broker could then hedge using the actual DEX and passing the order there instead of being the sole counterparty.  This approach would be very profitable for the broker, but only minimally beneficial for the BTS ecosystem.

Thats why it would be great if the referral program could be used as the profit generator instead of spread manipulation.  All the trading could be done directly with the DEX instead of the broker.

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2:34 PM @Akado: re MT4 ... There are multiple costs to this.. licensing will be in the neighbourhood of $100k from what I recall.. and the dev for integration would likely be another $100k .. but besides having that we then have to have a VERY aggressive campaign that reaches MT4 traders.. I would estimate another $30k for a 6 month blitz campaign.. otherwise we won't access that userbase.. and if we don't.. it's a waste of a quarter mill. If we can do it in such a way that we can get CUA to around $4  (industry average).. this means we would get 60k new traders out of the deal. Problem though is that we have driven our trading platform cost so low i could be a long time before we see an ROI if at all. Anyways.. this was what I came up with when I looked into it.
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Offline lil_jay890

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Would it make sense to integrate this in BitShares and pay via worker proposal or do you think this should be something a 3rd party service should add themselves in order to have advantage over the competition?

Doing it for BitShares might be faster and attract more people
Having a 3rd party doing it saves shareholders money but we dont know if we are ever going to have someone implement this

Any idea on how much this would cost? @monsterer

I'm unsure what the trading fee's are now since the recent changes.  I thought the only way to make this work would be to use the referral program.  Now that fees are so low it seems extremely difficult to make a profit.

I'm guessing by the time we purchase the license and do all the programming to integrate MT4 it would be 150-200k.

A profitable way to do MT4 would be for a 3rd party to offer the platform and be the counterparty for their clients trades (90% of retail forex traders lose money) and widen the spread slightly higher than what DEX actually is a pocket the spread.  If a client takes on a large enough position, the broker could then hedge using the actual DEX and passing the order there instead of being the sole counterparty.  This approach would be very profitable for the broker, but only minimally beneficial for the BTS ecosystem.

Thats why it would be great if the referral program could be used as the profit generator instead of spread manipulation.  All the trading could be done directly with the DEX instead of the broker.

Offline Akado

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Would it make sense to integrate this in BitShares and pay via worker proposal or do you think this should be something a 3rd party service should add themselves in order to have advantage over the competition?

Doing it for BitShares might be faster and attract more people
Having a 3rd party doing it saves shareholders money but we dont know if we are ever going to have someone implement this

Any idea on how much this would cost? @monsterer
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 02:22:36 pm by Akado »
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Offline jsidhu

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I bet traders would start coming in if we had this integration.. Use the wallet to setup and mt4 to trade replacing the job of exchanges..

A walet and exchange should not be together theynare seperate problems with seperate comcerns, wastimg time on the exchange portion is inefficient
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Offline puppies

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I wanted to keep this discussion in the correct thread, but it is largely inspired by the following quote from the committee fee discussion thread.
I can assure you forex, stock, option, futures traders do take fee's seriously... but only if the fee's are exorbant.

They will not care if a fee is 1 cent or $1.  What they will care about is when they see they could execute a $100,000 trade on ETrade and pay $7 in commissions, but then try to do that same trade in bitshares and pay $100.  Then imagine if people start using leverage with bond market... multiply their costs by 10.

If you are going to do the %based fee's, there needs to be a ceiling involved.  My back of the napkin sweetspot would be %based fee's up to $20... $20 is half the price that many ECN brokers charge to do larger forex orders.

If forex clients would be happy with a $1 flat fee to trade in our markets then I think MT4 integration could be funded with a fee backed asset.  Lets assume for the sake of argument that development and licensing would cost $250,000.  You could attempt to fund that with a multi sig owned UIA.  Set a giant sell wall at $10.00 per share or whatever.  If the funds are not raised within a certain cutoff period, put up a giant buy wall at $10.00.  You could do this in the USD market, or just adjust it frequently in the BTS market.  Even with having to adjust it, BTS might be better due to current liquidity.  You could even accept BTC through meta or blocktrades. 

Once enough money is raised development begins, and this uia is converted 1 to 1 to the new FBA.  If we had a base limit order create fee roughly 3 times what it currently is, or $0.10 then the FBA would still be able to take in $0.90 per trade.  If the system proves to be popular we could probably even raise the fee over $1. 

Someone with knowledge of this industry needs to do more than spitball a rough estimate of cost.  Who is willing to sell a license.  How much?  What would be the regulatory aspects?  How could we protect the license? 

Then hit up CNX or abit or another dev, and get a quote on development cost.  Be very open on the cut that you are taking yourself for putting this together.

Once we have a number we can start talking about when and how we would acquire users, how many trades on average we expect them to make.  From there we can extrapolate fee requirements.

Depending on all of the factors above, I think this could be a very lucrative use of a persons time.  If the price is right I would invest in the FBA, and I am sure some whales would be interested as well.
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Offline kenCode

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And I just made contact with the CEO of marginsoftware.com. They are VERY interested in BitShares in general and intend to implement BitShares aswell! They say great potential
+5% nice one .. but guess you mean www.marginsoftware.de, right?
.com is redirecting to a DPS

 +5% +5% +5%
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Offline kenCode

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It would also need to be packaged up with a nice installer etc
agreed will working on this ASAP! It's on my to do list ..

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Offline Akado

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Any updates on the progress?

I don't think much has been done since the last post... I've been trying to drum up some interest again though.

The BTS community is stuck on this thought that fee's are the problem with adoption and market cap growth.  The fee's aren't the problem, the interface is.  I'm hoping that the blocktrades worker proposal can be redirected to creating an metatrader plugin.  They seem like the most able candidate to integrate bts and mt4.  I would even advocate doubling their pay to get this done if that's what it takes.
The Chinese bts community is stuck on fees.
They also complain about UI. However most of them have never used MT4 (even BM hasn't).

I don't, but I think we need to be pragmatic, It is the most used platform, it opens doors to many people? Then we should go for it. We shouldn't be too picky about those things. It could be the worst platform, as long as it's the most popular we should go for it, that's what matters.
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Offline abit

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Any updates on the progress?

I don't think much has been done since the last post... I've been trying to drum up some interest again though.

The BTS community is stuck on this thought that fee's are the problem with adoption and market cap growth.  The fee's aren't the problem, the interface is.  I'm hoping that the blocktrades worker proposal can be redirected to creating an metatrader plugin.  They seem like the most able candidate to integrate bts and mt4.  I would even advocate doubling their pay to get this done if that's what it takes.
The Chinese bts community is stuck on fees.
They also complain about UI. However most of them have never used MT4 (even BM hasn't).
Its used worldwide, bm isnt a trader so he doesnt know

This is why cnx hasn't put this high on their priority list.  They are not traders and they don't see the low hanging fruit right in front of their faces.

Mt4 is the most popular trading platform in the world. Saying china doesn't use mt4 is another sweeping generalization that Chinese forum members seem to use all to often. There may be a cheaper option, but none will instantly open the door to millions of traders like an mt4 plugin and license would.
I was not saying that nobody uses MT4 in China. It's mostly used in Forex/Commodity Futures markets, and many people use it. However, afaik very rare discussion about MT4 in BitShares related QQ groups. Don't know why you say "Chinese forum members seem to use all to often", maybe I've misunderstood it.
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