Estimated Price of 1 Bitshare

[bytemaster]

Can any expert out there make any justified argument that says Bitshares will not surpass Lite coin, Bitcoin, and every other coin out there, in a big way?  Is there any other investment out there that is better than, or even close to Bitshares?  Isn't Etherium about to start something similar?  How does it compare?  Others?

Brent Allsop

Ethereum is an interesting academic exercise and a great way for people to explore the DAC space, but anything worthwhile that can be made into a "true" DAC will be cloned, made more profitable and scalable, and made to honor PTS =D

But yes BTS blows all altcoins out of the water, the only advantage BTC has is confidence in the code. I think we shouldn't be in a rush to market until the code is battle-hardened a bit

Exactly... we will not start our major marketing push until we have it battle hardened.

[toast]

Can any expert out there make any justified argument that says Bitshares will not surpass Lite coin, Bitcoin, and every other coin out there, in a big way?  Is there any other investment out there that is better than, or even close to Bitshares?  Isn't Etherium about to start something similar?  How does it compare?  Others?

Brent Allsop

Ethereum is an interesting academic exercise and a great way for people to explore the DAC space, but anything worthwhile that can be made into a "true" DAC will be cloned, made more profitable and scalable, and made to honor PTS =D

But yes BTS blows all altcoins out of the water, the only advantage BTC has is confidence in the code. I think we shouldn't be in a rush to market until the code is battle-hardened a bit

[pgbit]

*[...]  Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?

Ask that guy who donates 10 BTC nearly every day  :)

How do you know this?  Is this information visible someplace publicly?
I'd like to put a lot more into Bitshares, but not sure the best way to do it.

Here's a link to the daily donation listings: http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

[Brent.Allsop]

When Invictus deliver, even owning a handful of bitshares will prove rewarding. There is much to accomplish but I believe in Invictus.

Using the PTS and AGS price, I estimate they are currently around 15 USD. In my opinion they are severely undervalued.

On launch I will not be surprised by $100+ USD.

Why only Lite coin?  Lite coin is just a clone of Bitcoin, with no significant differences.  While Bitshares is vastly superior in so many ways.  The most important way, according to investors, like me, is the amount of new coins coming into existence, which is like a tax on the holders.  Not only are there drastically fewer Bitshares, and where Bitcoin has 12% new coins each year, Bitshares has none of this.  So right out of the gate you have at least 10% better performance, just on this alone, to say nothing of all the other improvements.

Seems to me this must also blow away Bitcoin, not just Litecoin.

And if THIS is true, we need to get this information canonized, and communicated out to the public better.  One thing we don't want, for sure, is for something like this to blindside everyone.  It looks to me like we are all the only ones that know about this.  And once These are trading, it could, within a few days, kill Bitcoin and surpass it's market share, in a very messy way - with LOTS of people losing LOTS of money.

Sure we'll all profit from it, but think about what that will do to crypto currency in the eyes of the public.  They will view it as a bunch of nerds successively creating new better coins, selling the public on them, then secretly creating better coins to take all this money away from them.  The only way to avoid this is to publicize this kind of information in a trusted place like Canonizer.com, so it is very public information, otherwise the regulators, and public in general, are going to come after us big time.  For example, we should create a new topic describing why we all think Bitshares is superior to all other Bitcoins, and why here:

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/150

Can any expert out there make any justified argument that says Bitshares will not surpass Lite coin, Bitcoin, and every other coin out there, in a big way?  Is there any other investment out there that is better than, or even close to Bitshares?  Isn't Etherium about to start something similar?  How does it compare?  Others?

Brent Allsop

[Brent.Allsop]

*[...]  Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?

Ask that guy who donates 10 BTC nearly every day  :)

How do you know this?  Is this information visible someplace publicly?
I'd like to put a lot more into Bitshares, but not sure the best way to do it.

[JakeThePanda]

*[...]  Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?

Ask that guy who donates 10 BTC nearly every day  :)

How do you know he's allin?  Maybe his net worth is like a billion dollars.

[Markus]

*[...]  Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?

Ask that guy who donates 10 BTC nearly every day  :)

[Bitcoinfan]

Dividends are no longer given up by the short seller.  its just a 5% fee, which does the same thing as giving up dividends in the end 

[toast]

Folks,

I still have a few questions about this valuation information:
* When will Bitshares start trading, and could this be delayed?

Unknown, my estimate is Q2

* Will protoshares cease to exist at that time, having been converted to Bitshares?

Protoshares will continue to exist and will by honored by future DACs

* As far as people that really understand this stuff, what is your target position for how much you be your target holdings?.  For example when the funding round closes, what percentage of your capital will be Bitcoin vs protoshares vs angel shares?  Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?

My BTS X snapshot allocation will be around 50/50 PTS/AGS, assuming PTS:AGS donation average gets pretty close to 1

* Will the security of Bitshares be equal to the Mining of Bitcoin?

We will see. Bytemaster can give you lots of theory about why BTS will be more secure.

* Once the financing round closes in a few months, would, or could there ever be any more Bitshares put into the economy?

There will be other chains under the "BitShares" brand, but we are actually talking about BTS X, the first chain which has mostly currencies. There will be no new BTS X (first chain base unit) after financing round

* Still struggling to understand who is paying this Bitshare interest.  What controls how much this will be?  Will it be the amount if interest and activity in futures contracts?

BitAsset only: +1 directly from 5% short sell fee, +?% sacrificed BTS dividends from short sell
BTS: transaction fees, inactivity fees, maybe other "network cost" stuff

[valtr]

Folks,

I still have a few questions about this valuation information:
* When will Bitshares start trading, and could this be delayed?
* Will protoshares cease to exist at that time, having been converted to Bitshares?
* As far as people that really understand this stuff, what is your target position for how much you be your target holdings?.  For example when the funding round closes, what percentage of your capital will be Bitcoin vs protoshares vs angel shares?  Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?
* Will the security of Bitshares be equal to the Mining of Bitcoin?
* Once the financing round closes in a few months, would, or could there ever be any more Bitshares put into the economy?
* Still struggling to understand who is paying this Bitshare interest.  What controls how much this will be?  Will it be the amount if interest and activity in futures contracts?

Thanks!

Brent Allsop

Nobody knows the date of start. It depends on development. Maybe 3-5/2014?

Protoshares will not cease to exist ever. Holders will get 10% stake in any other DAC released by Invictus or based on Invictus software and released by 3rd party.
Bishares just spoken about are only the first chain with first 16 assets. More independent chains with different assets will be released step by step. The chain has space limit in MB.

The rest I don't know or I am not able to explain with my English.

[Brent.Allsop]

Folks,

I still have a few questions about this valuation information:
* When will Bitshares start trading, and could this be delayed?
* Will protoshares cease to exist at that time, having been converted to Bitshares?
* As far as people that really understand this stuff, what is your target position for how much you be your target holdings?.  For example when the funding round closes, what percentage of your capital will be Bitcoin vs protoshares vs angel shares?  Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?
* Will the security of Bitshares be equal to the Mining of Bitcoin?
* Once the financing round closes in a few months, would, or could there ever be any more Bitshares put into the economy?
* Still struggling to understand who is paying this Bitshare interest.  What controls how much this will be?  Will it be the amount if interest and activity in futures contracts?

Thanks!

Brent Allsop

[oco101]

Ok sorry got it !!

[toast]

What about the exchange rate of BTS to BTC? Does anybody want to speculate on what that may be?

Please correct if wrong.
Before the AGS funding round PTS was traded at 0.03 BTC, then every PTS would be awarded with 1 BTS. And there would be 20 million.

You mean 4 million BTS

before: 20m
after: 4m

[oco101]

What about the exchange rate of BTS to BTC? Does anybody want to speculate on what that may be?

Please correct if wrong.
Before the AGS funding round PTS was traded at 0.03 BTC, then every PTS would be awarded with 1 BTS. And there would be 20 million.

You mean 4 million BTS

[toast]

What about the exchange rate of BTS to BTC? Does anybody want to speculate on what that may be?

Please correct if wrong.
Before the AGS funding round PTS was traded at 0.03 BTC, then every PTS would be awarded with 1 BTS. And there would be 20 million.

The average daily BTC donation, prices AGS under 0.01BTC.

So not taking in to account that BTS is more scarce, and assuming BTS release would take 200 days (unlikely) This would be a factor 3 ROI.

This is a very low estimation, but I don't like to be over optimistic with investments. Also BTS should be considered the first dividend payout. There will be multiple BTS chains and DAC's which should pay at least 10% to the AGS holders.

And remember, that assumption is very conservative for only if you are trying to sell BTS right away. The longer after release the better deal it becomes because of the scarcity factor you are ignoring, because the new BTS will not be devalued down by 90% over time.

You can basically plot a function of time that would produce a multiplier for how much better the new allocation is in terms of BTS per PTS, it would start at 3x converge to something higher