Author Topic: Impressions Inside Bitcoin Conference Berlin  (Read 6302 times)

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Offline cass

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Thanks for posting.  Like you I do not see ethereum as a competitor, except in the realm of attention of the community. 

We have different visions.  I have great respect for Charles skills at business development and that was the intent of my post. 

I wish you the best.

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Offline bytemaster

Thanks for posting.  Like you I do not see ethereum as a competitor, except in the realm of attention of the community. 

We have different visions.  I have great respect for Charles skills at business development and that was the intent of my post. 

I wish you the best. 






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Offline bitcool

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charleshoskinson

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I am sure you know better whats good. What appears in my head though is: Why dont you try to settle the case with Charles personally aiming at peace not mostly in business terms but in personal terms? Also making a statement (together with Charles) to the Bitcoin community about what happened what be great even though it is not the easiest way.
If you say you wanna make a statement about all that he might be willing to talk to you.
Also the mess (read the thrad on bitcoin talk where you are both being not very nice towards each other) is bad for BOTH of you. Right now mostly for I3, later on when I3 got of the ground (and the outlaw status didnt hurt the adaption) Charles might look like the one that tried to come up with something random for revenge. So you would both profit from getting over your personal disappointments.

On the one side I aggree the most innovative technology will win. On the other side strong personal connections give you a lot and mostly dont cost anything. In Berlin I heard big money investors wanting to go into bitcoin talk about Ethereum without having a sophisticated understanding of the matter.

A lot of people have great talent and people develope amazing momentum when they are given trust in advance and feel valued. Inviting the wider Bitcoin comunity to participate in Bitshares / I3 can be another way to compensate the lack discussed above. How would that work? I dont know. Posting more on Bitcointalk, having an own Bitshares thread? What else?

I figure I'd drop by for a bit to give my two cents. I helped start Invictus Innovations and had a great time building the foundations with Dan, Stan and Bo. There is no bad blood on my side and whatever differences we have are now in the domain of strategy and vision, yet Ethereum isn't a competitor of Invictus in my mind and I hope Invictus views us in the same light. We are both doing research in this space to bring cryptocurrencies into the next generation and we both share common regulatory and legal challenges in terms of smart property and the relationship of DAOs to their respective jurisdictions.

I suppose it may be great fun to speculate on hidden motives, post some Q&A videos or attempt to infer some sort of behind the curtain drama, but honestly we are all pioneers in a new field trying to make the world a better place, all of our contributions are open sourced and we are all vetted by the free market's needs in the end. Under these constraints, it seems to make more sense to just cooperate and build great things together.

Good Luck all  +5%

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« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 09:51:03 pm by charleshoskinson »

Offline santaclause102

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Mastercoin and Ethereum marketing is not better than Bitshares marketing! Their presence comes from personal involvement with these "elites". They are not elites in terms of knowledge / understanding more in monetary terms and even more in terms of being well connected... Reciprocity... "I give you something - you give me something". That's how making business works.
Geting some Bit Angel Investors on board might help in many terms (promoting Bitshares within these circles and promotion to the masses).

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  These guys are all friends / insiders in the bitcoin community where as we are seen as outsiders.   They get a lot of buzz because of personal connections that we do not have and building these connections is a full time job.   

I have actually talked with the BitAngles, presented our plans to their organization, met with David, etc.   There seems to be some kind of frequency mismatch that keeps them from getting on board with what we are doing.   

There is also an undercurrent of Charles Hoskinson who is VERY good at doing these kinds of deals, networking, and getting people on his side.   When he was with Invictus his skills in this regard were most impressive.    As you can tell from various interviews Charles is actively attempting to outcompete Invictus with a new product and thus working all of his connections behind the scenes to side with Ethereum and downplay Invictus.   

From my conversations with people wearing Ethereum t-shirts in Miami it appears many are supporting the project due to friendships that are entirely independent of technical merits.  They don't understand it, its limits, or its strength but they have bought into the reality distortion field that I use to joke with Charles about.   The reality distortion field is strong with this one.

Despite the hype, these projects lack technical merit and are economically flawed.   In the free market you can only survive so long on hype before market forces kick in.

I am sure you know better whats good. What appears in my head though is: Why dont you try to settle the case with Charles personally aiming at peace not mostly in business terms but in personal terms? Also making a statement (together with Charles) to the Bitcoin community about what happened what be great even though it is not the easiest way.
If you say you wanna make a statement about all that he might be willing to talk to you.
Also the mess (read the thrad on bitcoin talk where you are both being not very nice towards each other) is bad for BOTH of you. Right now mostly for I3, later on when I3 got of the ground (and the outlaw status didnt hurt the adaption) Charles might look like the one that tried to come up with something random for revenge. So you would both profit from getting over your personal disappointments.

On the one side I aggree the most innovative technology will win. On the other side strong personal connections give you a lot and mostly dont cost anything. In Berlin I heard big money investors wanting to go into bitcoin talk about Ethereum without having a sofisticated understanding of the matter.

A lot of people have great talent and people develope amazing momentum when they are given trust in advance and feel valued. Inviting the wider Bitcoin comunity to participate in Bitshares / I3 can be another way to compensate the lack discussed above. How would that work? I dont know. Posting more on Bitcointalk, having an own Bitshares thread? What else?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 07:10:36 pm by delulo »

Offline barwizi

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Offline 5chdn

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thanks for sharing your impressions +5%

Offline cass

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Mastercoin and Ethereum marketing is not better than Bitshares marketing! Their presence comes from personal involvement with these "elites". They are not elites in terms of knowledge / understanding more in monetary terms and even more in terms of being well connected... Reciprocity... "I give you something - you give me something". That's how making business works.
Geting some Bit Angel Investors on board might help in many terms (promoting Bitshares within these circles and promotion to the masses).

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  These guys are all friends / insiders in the bitcoin community where as we are seen as outsiders.   They get a lot of buzz because of personal connections that we do not have and building these connections is a full time job.   

I have actually talked with the BitAngles, presented our plans to their organization, met with David, etc.   There seems to be some kind of frequency mismatch that keeps them from getting on board with what we are doing.   

There is also an undercurrent of Charles Hoskinson who is VERY good at doing these kinds of deals, networking, and getting people on his side.   When he was with Invictus his skills in this regard were most impressive.    As you can tell from various interviews Charles is actively attempting to outcompete Invictus with a new product and thus working all of his connections behind the scenes to side with Ethereum and downplay Invictus.   

From my conversations with people wearing Ethereum t-shirts in Miami it appears many are supporting the project due to friendships that are entirely independent of technical merits.  They don't understand it, its limits, or its strength but they have bought into the reality distortion field that I use to joke with Charles about.   The reality distortion field is strong with this one.

Despite the hype, these projects lack technical merit and are economically flawed.   In the free market you can only survive so long on hype before market forces kick in.

 +5%
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline BldSwtTrs

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KryptoKit is owned by one of the founders of Ethereum if i'm not mistaken.

Anyway, i'm not worried with the marketing at the moment. I think Bitshares did a good job at Miami, we have a solid website, good branding, nice friendly community and a good funding model. You guys have to keep in mind that people go with the hype. Right now Ethereum is getting a lot of exposure so everyone is jumping that ship.

I strongly believe Bitshares will be the rising Dark Horse of crypto, i used to work in business development and i've seen this happen to many times.

Hype does not equal to guaranteed success! Fundamentals are key and we have a solid foundation being built here.
Also Bitshares will be working (hopefully) whereas Ethereum will not even have started their IPO. This will be a wonderful period for capturing mindshares and the momentum.

Offline rysgc

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I think a few articles on well established (financial/ tech) websites and magazines will be so much more powerful then any connection in the Bitcoin community. Although they might get you these articles quicker I think this is something which should and will expand far beyond the regular bitcoin community so I wouldn't care too much on who knows who in the bitcoin circle but rather get the eyes and ears of some well established financial heavyweights .
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Offline Giga

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I also met with the Hive wallet guys (the funds behind Ethereum) in an effort to partner with them to produce the BitShares wallet.   They ended up going with Ethereum. 

We were also actively talking with the KriptoKit developers prior to launch with an interest toward building a web wallet for BitShares... they seem to be going some other way.

So from where I sit it isn't a lack of reaching out to these players, they all seem to have their own momentum and biases that seem to get in the way of working with us.   

Fortunately we have players in our field that are stepping to take the opportunities these other guys passed on.

KryptoKit is owned by one of the founders of Ethereum if i'm not mistaken.

Anyway, i'm not worried with the marketing at the moment. I think Bitshares did a good job at Miami, we have a solid website, good branding, nice friendly community and a good funding model. You guys have to keep in mind that people go with the hype. Right now Ethereum is getting a lot of exposure so everyone is jumping that ship.

I strongly believe Bitshares will be the rising Dark Horse of crypto, i used to work in business development and i've seen this happen to many times.

Hype does not equal to guaranteed success! Fundamentals are key and we have a solid foundation being built here.

Offline CWEvans

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An alternative to attending Bitcoin conferences, where we might be seen as also-rans and wannabes, might be attending the conferences of target industries, like import/export, economic development, etc.

I had a bit more to offer by way of justification for this, but I got carried away. The rest of my post is here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2932.0.

Offline bytemaster

I also met with the Hive wallet guys (the funds behind Ethereum) in an effort to partner with them to produce the BitShares wallet.   They ended up going with Ethereum. 

We were also actively talking with the KriptoKit developers prior to launch with an interest toward building a web wallet for BitShares... they seem to be going some other way.

So from where I sit it isn't a lack of reaching out to these players, they all seem to have their own momentum and biases that seem to get in the way of working with us.   

Fortunately we have players in our field that are stepping to take the opportunities these other guys passed on.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Mastercoin and Ethereum marketing is not better than Bitshares marketing! Their presence comes from personal involvement with these "elites". They are not elites in terms of knowledge / understanding more in monetary terms and even more in terms of being well connected... Reciprocity... "I give you something - you give me something". That's how making business works.
Geting some Bit Angel Investors on board might help in many terms (promoting Bitshares within these circles and promotion to the masses).

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  These guys are all friends / insiders in the bitcoin community where as we are seen as outsiders.   They get a lot of buzz because of personal connections that we do not have and building these connections is a full time job.   

I have actually talked with the BitAngles, presented our plans to their organization, met with David, etc.   There seems to be some kind of frequency mismatch that keeps them from getting on board with what we are doing.   

There is also an undercurrent of Charles Hoskinson who is VERY good at doing these kinds of deals, networking, and getting people on his side.   When he was with Invictus his skills in this regard were most impressive.    As you can tell from various interviews Charles is actively attempting to outcompete Invictus with a new product and thus working all of his connections behind the scenes to side with Ethereum and downplay Invictus.   

From my conversations with people wearing Ethereum t-shirts in Miami it appears many are supporting the project due to friendships that are entirely independent of technical merits.  They don't understand it, its limits, or its strength but they have bought into the reality distortion field that I use to joke with Charles about.   The reality distortion field is strong with this one.

Despite the hype, these projects lack technical merit and are economically flawed.   In the free market you can only survive so long on hype before market forces kick in.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 11:59:48 am by cassiopaia »
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline santaclause102

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Mastercoin and Ethereum marketing is not better than Bitshares marketing! Their presence comes from personal involvement with these "elites". They are not elites in terms of knowledge / understanding more in monetary terms and even more in terms of being well connected... Reciprocity... "I give you something - you give me something". That's how making business works.
Geting some Bit Angel Investors on board might help in many terms (promoting Bitshares within these circles and promotion to the masses).