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Offline AgeraS

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Due diligence questions?
« on: March 04, 2014, 11:43:53 PM »

For due diligence purposes, are all of following correct, please correct where wrong?

  • Both AGS and PTS give a percent of future DACs.
  • The only difference between AGS and PTS is PTS can be traded.
  • Snapshot for BTS was on Feb. 28
  • Currently (because it is past the BTS snapshot) the only way for people to get BTS is to trade for them once they are available for exchange.
  • It is assumed that most DACs will not be part of BTS chain but rather PTS/AGS, thus it is still worthwhile to hold AGS/PTS even though BTS Feb. 28 snapshot has passed.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 11:51:19 PM by AgeraS »

Offline oco101

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Re: Due diligence questions?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2014, 12:24:31 AM »
Correct !!!

Offline onceuponatime

Re: Due diligence questions?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2014, 01:16:12 AM »
I confirm that your statements exactly mirror my understanding upon which I base my investment decisions.

Offline Stan

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Re: Due diligence questions?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 01:19:00 AM »
For due diligence purposes, are all of following correct, please correct where wrong?

  • Both AGS and PTS give a percent of future DACs.
  • The only difference between AGS and PTS is PTS can be traded.
  • Snapshot for BTS was on Feb. 28
  • Currently (because it is past the BTS snapshot) the only way for people to get BTS is to trade for them once they are available for exchange.
  • It is assumed that most DACs will not be part of BTS chain but rather PTS/AGS, thus it is still worthwhile to hold AGS/PTS even though BTS Feb. 28 snapshot has passed.

Well, that's pretty close. 

Both AGS and PTS will converge to 2 million shares this summer.  At that time they will be equally effective in recommended minimum shareworthiness.  Prior to that, there will be fewer AGS in circulation so you get a gradually fading advantage with AGS for any DAC snapshots taken over the next few months.

Also each developer gets to decide what percentage they want to award to each category of stakeholder so there could theoretically be gratuities of 10/20 or 50/40 between the two.  We always recommend they stay balanced and 50/50 is obviously the most competitive combination unless there is some additional group (like a DACs desired customers) that a developer decides to include in the mix.

Developers decide the mix for their own DACs based on their own assessment of how it will help their DACs gain traction.

We decide how much to support a developer based upon how well they treat PTS/AGS holders.

BitShares X was specified to allocate all of its XTS shares 50/50 to PTS/AGS holders on Feb 28th.  So to get more of these you'll have to buy from someone who now owns them.

Most of our plans are for more DACS that will derive from PTS/AGS.

That said, XTS will be a very big family because the same code can be reused to implement many, many profitable businesses.   We will be working very hard to make this a success since it proves the potential of DACs still in the pipeline.   Also, many of our own resources are now also denominated in XTS, so we are certainly motivated to grow their value too.

But other families bigger than this will derive directly from PTS/AGS.

Keep in mind that much of our development firepower is currently stored in PTS.  So recharging their market value is essential and part of the plan.  We have the resources to do so, we just need to build up the industry bandwidth to employ them.

Each of these three powerful tools plays an important role in how we plan to bootstrap the industry.   And as more families are born, investors will have more and more flexibility in choosing where they want to focus their own resources.  Hopefully something to suit everybody's preferred style.

To misquote Charlton Heston: 
"You can have my PTS/AGS/XTS when you pry them from my cold dead hands"



Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline AgeraS

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Re: Due diligence questions?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2014, 02:23:12 AM »
Awesome Guys, thanks for confirmations and corrections!

Offline biophil

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Re: Due diligence questions?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2014, 07:45:18 PM »
For due diligence purposes, are all of following correct, please correct where wrong?

  • The only difference between AGS and PTS is PTS can be traded.

To very briefly address this one: not quite.

Invictus has made no commitment to honor AGS and PTS equally, only that they're each going to get at least 10% of each new DAC. There's nothing to stop them from awarding 40% to AGS and 10% to PTS.

On the other hand, if non-invictus DAC developers have no access to AGS funds, they have no explicit incentive to honor AGS. If you want to read a big argument about this, see this topic: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2924.0

Offline Stan

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Re: Due diligence questions?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2014, 09:53:28 PM »
For due diligence purposes, are all of following correct, please correct where wrong?

  • The only difference between AGS and PTS is PTS can be traded.

To very briefly address this one: not quite.

Invictus has made no commitment to honor AGS and PTS equally, only that they're each going to get at least 10% of each new DAC. There's nothing to stop them from awarding 40% to AGS and 10% to PTS.

On the other hand, if non-invictus DAC developers have no access to AGS funds, they have no explicit incentive to honor AGS. If you want to read a big argument about this, see this topic: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2924.0

True, we have not made balance mandatory, that's just our recommendation. 

Developers should read the 10 Natural Laws of the Crypto-Currency Universe and consider their real reasons for honoring each group?

Goal 1: Do you want to attract supporters who have proven that they mine and hold?
Give PTS holders a stake.

Goal 2:  Do you want to attract supporters who have proven that they invest in new ideas
Give AGS holders a stake.

Goal 3:  If you want to include "supporters" who mine, dump, and move on
by all means use traditional mining lotteries.

And remember:  The traditional model is that developers must give away 100% to Goal 3 "supporters".  With our model, they can reserve some to raise funds to develop their DAC or to attract the DAC's targeted customers, without hearing screams of "pre-mining".  Honoring AGS and PTS holders frees up 80% of your coins/shares for whatever fund-raising model you can convince the market is fair.

And yes, as icing on the cake, they get our promotional support.  We are still delighted (even desperate) to use funds on competent and committed third parties.  Where do people get the idea that we don't?

Read our recent newsletters.  See this recent post:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3394.msg42988#msg42988
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 09:59:36 PM by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline barwizi

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Re: Due diligence questions?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2014, 10:13:51 PM »
For due diligence purposes, are all of following correct, please correct where wrong?

  • The only difference between AGS and PTS is PTS can be traded.

To very briefly address this one: not quite.

Invictus has made no commitment to honor AGS and PTS equally, only that they're each going to get at least 10% of each new DAC. There's nothing to stop them from awarding 40% to AGS and 10% to PTS.

On the other hand, if non-invictus DAC developers have no access to AGS funds, they have no explicit incentive to honor AGS. If you want to read a big argument about this, see this topic: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2924.0

True, we have not made balance mandatory, that's just our recommendation. 

Developers should read the 10 Natural Laws of the Crypto-Currency Universe and consider their real reasons for honoring each group?

Goal 1: Do you want to attract supporters who have proven that they mine and hold?
Give PTS holders a stake.

Goal 2:  Do you want to attract supporters who have proven that they invest in new ideas
Give AGS holders a stake.

Goal 3:  If you want to include "supporters" who mine, dump, and move on
by all means use traditional mining lotteries.

And remember:  The traditional model is that developers must give away 100% to Goal 3 "supporters".  With our model, they can reserve some to raise funds to develop their DAC or to attract the DAC's targeted customers, without hearing screams of "pre-mining".  Honoring AGS and PTS holders frees up 80% of your coins/shares for whatever fund-raising model you can convince the market is fair.

And yes, as icing on the cake, they get our promotional support.  We are still delighted (even desperate) to use funds on competent and committed third parties.  Where do people get the idea that we don't?

Read our recent newsletters.  See this recent post:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3394.msg42988#msg42988

 :P not much "holding" going on at the moment. The average person in the crypto business is still trying to wrap theeir minds around this or is more "quick profit" minded.

I think major campaigns will be due in the future....err, once i am done buying cheap PTS that is.
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Offline Stan

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Re: Due diligence questions?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 10:28:04 PM »
For due diligence purposes, are all of following correct, please correct where wrong?

  • The only difference between AGS and PTS is PTS can be traded.

To very briefly address this one: not quite.

Invictus has made no commitment to honor AGS and PTS equally, only that they're each going to get at least 10% of each new DAC. There's nothing to stop them from awarding 40% to AGS and 10% to PTS.

On the other hand, if non-invictus DAC developers have no access to AGS funds, they have no explicit incentive to honor AGS. If you want to read a big argument about this, see this topic: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2924.0

True, we have not made balance mandatory, that's just our recommendation. 

Developers should read the 10 Natural Laws of the Crypto-Currency Universe and consider their real reasons for honoring each group?

Goal 1: Do you want to attract supporters who have proven that they mine and hold?
Give PTS holders a stake.

Goal 2:  Do you want to attract supporters who have proven that they invest in new ideas
Give AGS holders a stake.

Goal 3:  If you want to include "supporters" who mine, dump, and move on
by all means use traditional mining lotteries.

And remember:  The traditional model is that developers must give away 100% to Goal 3 "supporters".  With our model, they can reserve some to raise funds to develop their DAC or to attract the DAC's targeted customers, without hearing screams of "pre-mining".  Honoring AGS and PTS holders frees up 80% of your coins/shares for whatever fund-raising model you can convince the market is fair.

And yes, as icing on the cake, they get our promotional support.  We are still delighted (even desperate) to use funds on competent and committed third parties.  Where do people get the idea that we don't?

Read our recent newsletters.  See this recent post:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3394.msg42988#msg42988

 :P not much "holding" going on at the moment. The average person in the crypto business is still trying to wrap theeir minds around this or is more "quick profit" minded.

I think major campaigns will be due in the future....err, once i am done buying cheap PTS that is.

To the one who has accumulated the Proof of Work called Knowledge and Understanding goes the spoils.   :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline cygnify

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Re: Due diligence questions?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2014, 02:30:53 AM »
Excuse my ignorance, are there any planned projects that will be using the AGS donated in the near future (obviously apart from the bitshares X snapshot on Feb 28).

Offline bytemaster

Re: Due diligence questions?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2014, 02:44:32 AM »
Excuse my ignorance, are there any planned projects that will be using the AGS donated in the near future (obviously apart from the bitshares X snapshot on Feb 28).

Yes,  BitShares Music, BitShares Me, and BitShares DNS are all on the roadmap this year.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

 

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