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Offline Agent86

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Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« on: August 26, 2014, 06:17:32 PM »

BitUSD should only be brought newly into existence when it is trading above the value of USD (extra demand for the extra benefits of the bitAsset version of BitUSD)

I suggest we use feeds to set a floor for shorting bitUSD.  You can short but it won't be matched with buy orders unless it is above the median feed price. You can let the market otherwise operate freely and still use the moving average to trigger margin calls.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2014, 06:20:17 PM »
market is out of control of the delegates ... 1h moving average took over .. feeds are worthless now .. (at least that is my understanding of the ignition of the market)
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Offline Agent86

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Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2014, 06:22:52 PM »
market is out of control of the delegates ... 1h moving average took over .. feeds are worthless now .. (at least that is my understanding of the ignition of the market)
I'm suggesting we revisit this policy and take a different approach.

Offline luckybit

Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2014, 06:28:00 PM »
BitUSD should only be brought newly into existence when it is trading above the value of USD (extra demand for the extra benefits of the bitAsset version of BitUSD)

I suggest we use feeds to set a floor for shorting bitUSD.  You can short but it won't be matched with buy orders unless it is above the median feed price. You can let the market otherwise operate freely and still use the moving average to trigger margin calls.

Here is my take on the problem. The problem is the Bitshares X interface. All of my problems have been with the interface and not with the market technology itself.

1) The interface should alert us to opportunities based on either our trading patterns or our trading mode which we select.

2) We should not be expected to "know what to do" when events happen. We have to be guided by signals and most of us will take a good profit opportunity if we know it exists and know how.


So in my opinion priority number 1 should be to improve the interface so that opportunities signal to the user in the GUI, or to their email, SMS, or whatever they provide the client.

For example I might want the client to send an instant message to me on Skype and tell me I'm missing an arbitrage opportunity. This would be simple to write as it's just a bot (a simple script) but it's not clear how to go about automating things like that. We need instructions, scripts, bots, better signalling, there is a lot which goes into a good exchange.

tl;dr
The interface has to do a better job relaying information about the market and signalling market participants of profit opportunities. The sad fact is we are missing profit opportunities because of lag in the time to discover them.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 06:31:19 PM by luckybit »
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 06:38:07 PM »
So in my opinion priority number 1 should be to improve the interface so that opportunities signal to the user in the GUI, or to their email, SMS, or whatever they provide the client.
There will be .. afaik it is under HEAVY DEVELOPMENT ... and Brian promised that it will be a TRADING software rather than a wallet ..
All I know "cass" is working on it .. and that can only mean, interface will be AWESOME ...

anyway .. i linked your proposals in a message to cass and brian .. just in case they did not yet have that on the todo list
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Offline Agent86

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Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 01:07:32 AM »
I know the "purists" don't like it, but we need to use the price feeds guys.  We need to use the median price feed as a floor for new issuance.  Without the price feeds it doesn't work!

Offline cygnify

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Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 01:11:35 AM »
I'm slightly confused, hasn't the peg been following pretty closely currently without the feeds?
And this is only just over 24 hours in.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 01:16:19 AM »
I do not know if I am purist or not but:

Trading bitUSD based on feeds is just plan B, in case the true market does not work.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline GaltReport

Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 01:20:18 AM »
I know the "purists" don't like it, but we need to use the price feeds guys.  We need to use the median price feed as a floor for new issuance.  Without the price feeds it doesn't work!

Nyet to price feeds!!  Let the free market inside BitShares reign and remain FREE.  Don't like the prices, don't place an order.

User interface does need improving and simplifying but I think there is a limit to how much you can expect it to make a profit for you.

Offline toast

Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 01:21:29 AM »
For the fact that it is not tracking perfecrly now to be evidence that you need feeds you would have to explain why you wouldnt see undervalued usd at this point with feeds. There has not yet been any event that whose outcome would have depended on what the feeds said assuming they were sourced from bter and btc38

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Offline Agent86

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Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 01:27:50 AM »
I do not know if I am purist or not but:

Trading bitUSD based on feeds is just plan B, in case the true market does not work.

It is still based on market forces, the only thing I am changing is that you can't issue new bitUSD (short it into existance) at a price below the actual value of a dollar.  It makes no sense for us to issue more bitUSD when there is an abundance that is pushes the price below parity.  Without feeds it doesn't work.  And the price feeds are designed in a very good way so they are very difficult to manipulate.

Offline Agent86

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Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2014, 01:31:28 AM »
For the fact that it is not tracking perfecrly now to be evidence that you need feeds you would have to explain why you wouldnt see undervalued usd at this point with feeds. There has not yet been any event that whose outcome would have depended on what the feeds said assuming they were sourced from bter and btc38

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Using feeds as a floor for initial shorts would make the price track very well.   The reason the price is undervalued is because people are allowed to short it into existence below the actual value of a dollar.

Offline GaltReport

Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2014, 01:34:13 AM »
For the fact that it is not tracking perfecrly now to be evidence that you need feeds you would have to explain why you wouldnt see undervalued usd at this point with feeds. There has not yet been any event that whose outcome would have depended on what the feeds said assuming they were sourced from bter and btc38

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Using feeds as a floor for initial shorts would make the price track very well.   The reason the price is undervalued is because people are allowed to short it into existence below the actual value of a dollar.

But why are people doing that?  Their must some potential financial gain that they are looking for? Is their strategy invalid or are they just crazy people?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 01:36:13 AM by GaltReport »

Offline toast

Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2014, 01:34:48 AM »
So? These are people who would still short at a dollar. They have to pay more so there would be some percentage fewer usd but they would still be selling and pushing the bids down. Why would it suddenly track?

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Offline Agent86

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Re: Use feeds to restrict BitUSD shorting (BitUSD issuance)
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2014, 01:42:14 AM »
So? These are people who would still short at a dollar. They have to pay more so there would be some percentage fewer usd but they would still be selling and pushing the bids down. Why would it suddenly track?

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Well if they're shorting at a dollar then the price of bitUSD is now a dollar (what we want)

 

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