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Offline tonyk

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This is partly in response to the following conversation (which starts here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9464.msg123288#msg123288) I had with bitmeat.

So generally, I suck because I answered 4 of his question (albeit jokingly) and Agent86 answered only 1 of them but politely.

It does not matter that A86 is the mastermind behind this new short market rules. It does not matter that I have managed to collect like 85% of the answer HOW those market rules work. I have done that through scraping through post partly relate/explaining said rules and through tests in the BTSX client. Test that as we speak have left  non-cancelable orders, orders stretching not only in one market, but appearing in several (bitUSD/BTSX and bitBTC/bitUSD in that case).

But the person who designed those market changes, the person who knows 100% of not only HOW but also WHY those market rules work, as well as what are the benefits from them cares to politely answer just one question (from time to time) when several questions are asked. Requests for explanation of those rules have been plenty – in posts and even entire threads have been dedicated to  that! But the only person that knows the real answers (other than the developers themselves, but we all know they have more work than humanly possible to handle) does not care to post them.
But for that I suck and he does not!

I also suck because before giving the right answers to bitmeat, I have to dig out what the problem of mf-tzo was regarding his short orders. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9361.msg123205#msg123205 The usually helpful xeroc was on the wrong path regarding the issue… the reason for that – nobody has written straight all the new rules regarding shorting. So, your rule digging, just 85% sure about those rules, in house sucker, had to help the guy.
But for that I suck and the above it all politely answering from time to time, masterminds of those rules does not!


Cheers!


Update: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9521.msg123822#msg123822
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 09:46:55 PM by dat peg doe »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Method-X

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2014, 01:49:05 PM »
Speaking of which. You should create an ELI5 for the new market rules and have it stickied. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me the new market engine is meant only for bot trading? The lack of understanding would certainly explain why BitUSD volume has tanked.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2014, 02:11:33 PM »
Speaking of which. You should create an ELI5 for the new market rules and have it stickied. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me the new market engine is meant only for bot trading? The lack of understanding would certainly explain why BitUSD volume has tanked.

Yes, ELI5 that is 85% correct and that does not explain why we need this, would be awesome .   :)
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Method-X

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2014, 02:18:34 PM »
Speaking of which. You should create an ELI5 for the new market rules and have it stickied. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me the new market engine is meant only for bot trading? The lack of understanding would certainly explain why BitUSD volume has tanked.

Yes, ELI5 that is 85% correct and that does not explain why we need this, would be awesome .   :)

I get your point but it can be updated as the people in the thread collectively figure it out together. Eventually one of the devs will chime in to correct our mere mortal errors... Maybe?

Offline Agent86

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 03:21:37 PM »
This is partly in response to the following conversation (which starts here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9464.msg123288#msg123288) I had with bitmeat.

So generally, I suck because I answered 4 of his question (albeit jokingly) and Agent86 answered only 1 of them but politely.

It does not matter that A86 is the mastermind behind this new short market rules. It does not matter that I have managed to collect like 85% of the answer HOW those market rules work. I have done that through scraping through post partly relate/explaining said rules and through tests in the BTSX client. Test that as we speak have left  non-cancelable orders, orders stretching not only in one market, but appearing in several (bitUSD/BTSX and bitBTC/bitUSD in that case).

But the person who designed those market changes, the person who knows 100% of not only HOW but also WHY those market rules work, as well as what are the benefits from them cares to politely answer just one question (from time to time) when several questions are asked. Requests for explanation of those rules have been plenty – in posts and even entire threads have been dedicated to  that! But the only person that knows the real answers (other than the developers themselves, but we all know they have more work than humanly possible to handle) does not care to post them.
But for that I suck and he does not!

I also suck because before giving the right answers to bitmeat, I have to dig out what the problem of mf-tzo was regarding his short orders. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9361.msg123205#msg123205 The usually helpful xeroc was on the wrong path regarding the issue… the reason for that – nobody has written straight all the new rules regarding shorting. So, your rule digging, just 85% sure about those rules, in house sucker, had to help the guy.
But for that I suck and the above it all politely answering from time to time, masterminds of those rules does not!


Cheers!
I don't know why you're giving devs a free pass for being busy but not me.  I have a time consuming full time job and I'm also a volunteer like you.  I'm hoping to start working on things full time but it's not my current situation.  I would like to spend time on content/ELI5 but I am busy.  I have said you are helpful on the forums, I think bitmeat was only joking when he said you suck.

Speaking of which. You should create an ELI5 for the new market rules and have it stickied. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me the new market engine is meant only for bot trading? The lack of understanding would certainly explain why BitUSD volume has tanked.
The market rules are not meant only for bot trading, getting rid of the prioritization by fee in favor of prioritization by collateral just made it less costly to trade on deviations/inefficiencies in the market so you may see more bot activity.

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2014, 03:31:26 PM »
Well tonyk you didn't really answer the important questions. You provided steps which were... well useless.

Agent86 however understood what I asked and answered it well.

In general if you just tone down your sarcasm you'd be a great contributor. Instead you come off as a total jerk. There I said it. I get the jokes, but when people ask serious questions and I get hit with this 5 year old mentality, it's putting people off. I can manage it, it doesn't REALLY bother me, but newcomers will not find this attitude welcoming.

Just my 2 BTSX.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2014, 03:43:25 PM »
Well tonyk you didn't really answer the important questions. You provided steps which were... well useless.

Agent86 however understood what I asked and answered it well.

In general if you just tone down your sarcasm you'd be a great contributor. Instead you come off as a total jerk. There I said it. I get the jokes, but when people ask serious questions and I get hit with this 5 year old mentality, it's putting people off. I can manage it, it doesn't REALLY bother me, but newcomers will not find this attitude welcoming.

Just my 2 BTSX.

Good to hear you were the lucky ONE getting helped, then.

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Friedrich Nietzsche

« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 03:50:55 PM by dat peg doe »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2014, 03:52:05 PM »
Basically it's dangerous to make assumptions, especially since every new release has some new twist. It's good to get answers that any random visitor would get. I like the ELI5 idea. Even better would be an info-graphic showing how the market works. What's the collateral, when does it get triggered, etc. Picture worth a thousand words.

Offline Method-X

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2014, 03:57:18 PM »
Quote from: Agent86
The market rules are not meant only for bot trading, getting rid of the prioritization by fee in favor of prioritization by collateral just made it less costly to trade on deviations/inefficiencies in the market so you may see more bot activity.

Congratulations on the new market mechanics A86. The peg is tracking ALL assets beautifully.

Offline oldman

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2014, 04:31:24 PM »
Quote from: Agent86
The market rules are not meant only for bot trading, getting rid of the prioritization by fee in favor of prioritization by collateral just made it less costly to trade on deviations/inefficiencies in the market so you may see more bot activity.

Congratulations on the new market mechanics A86. The peg is tracking ALL assets beautifully.

Seconded, well done.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2014, 04:38:30 PM »
Congratulations on the new market mechanics A86. The peg is tracking ALL assets beautifully.

Give me a break... some markets did not even had short orders 2 hours ago...





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsgcXZzu6io

noun: sway
1.
a rhythmical movement from side to side.
"the easy sway of her hips"

synonyms: swing, roll, shake, oscillation, undulation
"the sway of her hips"

2.
rule; control.
"the part of the continent under Russia's sway"

synonyms: clout, influence, power, weight, authority, control
"his opinions have a lot of sway"

Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Method-X

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2014, 04:43:53 PM »
Children need rules, adults can be free.

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2014, 07:24:16 PM »
Well...Over the past week I have been trying to short bitusd and all the answers I have received had nothing to do with the real reason.

Only dat peg doe in here showed me just the relevant post that BM explained it. I am still only 20% sure sure I understand it.

MeTHoDX even posted on stupid questions thread some questions which are not stupid but if not answered will create even more confusion..

Now I will continue post my questions and hopefully things will get more clear day by day by day...But if BM or someone 100% familiar with the GUI just explains in a thread exactly how short works, what all the fields mean, how can one see in what order his collateral is vs. to others try to short so we get an estimation what orders we have to compete against, give specific numerical examples everyone will feel more comfortably with all that and we can finally move on...
 

Offline bytemaster

Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2014, 07:26:58 PM »
Well...Over the past week I have been trying to short bitusd and all the answers I have received had nothing to do with the real reason.

Only dat peg doe in here showed me just the relevant post that BM explained it. I am still only 20% sure sure I understand it.

MeTHoDX even posted on stupid questions thread some questions which are not stupid but if not answered will create even more confusion..

Now I will continue post my questions and hopefully things will get more clear day by day by day...But if BM or someone 100% familiar with the GUI just explains in a thread exactly how short works, what all the fields mean, how can one see in what order his collateral is vs. to others try to short so we get an estimation what orders we have to compete against, give specific numerical examples everyone will feel more comfortably with all that and we can finally move on...

I am working with GUI team to provide help bubbles on each field.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Why I suck and Agent86 does not!
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2014, 07:30:36 PM »
Quote
I am working with GUI team to provide help bubbles on each field.

That is good enough for me for now...thanks!

 

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