Quote from: lovejoy on November 25, 2015, 08:39:59 pm

The mall analogy while useful, only doesn't hold up because we are not bound by physical space, so the lifetime lease issue is a moot point.  It's really a matter of how useful a feature will remain for what length of time, and when will it be replaced or amended and how do we as a community decide to handle these cases, who is making these agreements, and what is the process for negotiating?  I personally think that a general, boiler plate agreement would be best in most cases, since it would provide something which is generally lacking around here, which is a standard operating procedure for how things get done.  Case by case is costly.  I say let investors make a case to make an exception to the boiler-plate agreement and otherwise don't mess with it.  We already have so many moving parts as it is.

The analog to physical space in a mall is transaction bandwidth on the blockchain.  Any new business on the chain needs to pay for the resources it consumes, plus a profit for the BitShares platform which is itself trying to be a profitable business.

I think the market will eventually home in on a few standard operating procedures but we are all still exploring this space so I'm not sure we yet know what to standardize on.

The answer will probably be, "Whatever works" 

That said, regulatory complexities will eventually drive us to implement certain built-in templates that help everyone stay out of trouble.

hey guys, any idea of when stealth transfers will be available in the wallets?
 
once that feature is in there, I think you will start seeing more money flowing into the system. right now, that money doesn't want to be revealed on cryptofresh, the big money wants some damn privacy.

Quote from: donkeypong on November 25, 2015, 01:26:37 am

Onceuponatime may soon have nearly $45,000 worth of UIA crapcoin tips in his wallet!

You may be surprise, I sold FISTBUMP and HIGHFIVE and made 1300BTS from it. But thats beside the point.

I may be able to setup a sales page for you and write the copy @onceuponatime and with some help from metaexchange, people will be able to buy  directly from the sales page. If I could get the help of someone like @kenCode or @Method-X  to promote it, I think it would be worth it in order to attract some eyeballs from the large cryptocurrency crowd...especially on the darknet.

#sharebits "onceuponatime" 1 THANKYOU

Who wouldn't want to get a cut of every stealth transaction made forever on the bitshares blockchain?

Quote from: bytemaster on November 24, 2015, 09:49:52 pm

I would estimate it would take about 1 month of effort. Allowing for various delays etc, I would guess 6 weeks from the time we start on it.

But it is software, I wouldn't want to be penalized for taking longer than 6 weeks.

Would that put a hold on things like updating the API or just remove resources? If it's removing resources, what percentage would other projects suffer? Also, what about an up-front payment and then rest in escrow (if that's possible) once the work is successfully delivered?

First of all a big thank you to onceuponatime. He is a very well known supporter of bitshares and has my full support! for everything you have done to bitshares so far!!

Secondly I like also the idea of UIA. Let everyone who wants to participate in this buy the UIA by supporting the project. This way onceuponatime will share the risks but also the profits. CNX will get it done and the rest will be history. The UIA holders should receive a very big % of the fees. I would say something like 90% at least.

Either way whatever you decide is good for me as long as it is gets done. So I just have one question that I don't see anyone addressed yet...

If CNX gets the $45k funding via onceuponatime or via crowdfunding and various investors, @bytemaster ,  how long will it take to finish the project?

Quote from: onceuponatime on November 24, 2015, 12:17:29 am

Quote from: NotSmart on November 23, 2015, 11:40:48 pm

Quote from: onceuponatime on November 23, 2015, 11:32:26 pm

Quote from: bytemaster on November 23, 2015, 11:21:56 pm

Quote from: tonyk on November 23, 2015, 11:07:29 pm

I really do not get 'the no lifetime fees' crowd.

What is up with you people? Someone making too much money, according to you?

If yes go pay it yourselves, or get up and organize it as a UIA funding that you can buy into...


PS
And keep in mind that I say that while I have only 3 prime suspects for this secret investor - CNX being one of those.

CNX is not one of them, nor is it CCEDK nor Bunker.   In other words, there is no slight of hand here, I just wanted to air the idea without involving them.  Would the mystery investor please speak up if you are ok discussing this publicly?

I approached Stan and Dan with the thought of my paying CNX $45,000 to get the Stealth work funded. This is a huge chunk of my lifetime savings, and it is a huge risk for me to be taking. However, I am in total harmony with Bytemaster's philosophy and goals as far as I understand them and want this project to succeed, and to succeed .

I find that a lot of community members are expecting others to do the work needed to get this project rolling for free or for less than market rates. And out and out jealousy rearing its ugly head in some comments today.

Any reason you prefer stealth transfer over bond or prediction market? Is it because you think it is more important or you feel that the developers are intent on doing this first?

Will you be open to a crowd funding where you dont have to put up the whole $45,000?

Only curious, dont attribute anything to my questions.

I am all in favor of bond and prediction markets. My thinking was that if I pay for the stealth transfer myself, then the other funds can be used for those. With a $45,000 up front cash infusion CNX would have the stability and wherewithall to expand and produce more and more quickly.

Crowdfunding would be great, but I am a technically challenged person and am still grappling with the 2.0 release which I have only just recently gotten set up. I suppose that I could try to hire Cryptonomex to take care of that for me (Stan?).

I approached Stan and Dan with the thought that I fund the whole Stealth Worker proposal for $45,000to to get CNX working on it and get the ball rolling. This was for several reasons, among them that Dan stated that he thought that it could be a valuable boost to our ecosystem, and also that I personally am uncomfortable with current levels of privacy.

Stan and I tossed the idea back and forth a couple of times with Stan actually seeing the opportunities for entrpreneurs much faster and more thoroughly than me. He came up with the analogy of building a parking garage attached to someone else's mall.  And then Bytemaster put it out here in the forum for public discussion.

I would gladly be responsible for less than the full $45,000 if others want to join in.
For me to put up $45,000 in an effort to get BitShares out of the doldrums and kickstarted is a huge risk. IT REPRESENTS THE MAJORITY OF MY LIFE SAVINGS. The risks are huge. But I believe in what we are attempting to do with BitShares, and I am trying to do everything in my power and within my limited skill set to make BitShares a success as a way to safeguard life liberty and property in face of the enormous economic disruptions that are headed our way as the legacy financial system reaps what it has sown.

While this might benefit my BTS investment...

As a general rule, unless you are under 30 and have a very secure profession, I would advise against risking the majority of your life savings on any investment.

In this gambling calculator http://www.albionresearch.com/kelly/ input your savings under bankroll and input what you think your return and odds of being successful.

This will return the upper bound/maximum you should mathematically  risk & most would reccomend much lower.

Quote

This is the same question that a business owner, investor, or speculator has to ask themself: what proportion of my capital should I stake on a risky venture?

Quote

Many investors including Warren Buffett[8] and Bill Gross[9] use Kelly methods.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_criterion

Quote from: tonyk on November 23, 2015, 11:07:29 pm

I really do not get 'the no lifetime fees' crowd.

What is up with you people? Someone making too much money, according to you?

If yes go pay it yourselves, or get up and organize it as a UIA funding that you can buy into...


PS
And keep in mind that I say that while I have only 3 prime suspects for this secret investor - CNX being one of those.

CNX is not one of them, nor is it CCEDK nor Bunker.   In other words, there is no slight of hand here, I just wanted to air the idea without involving them.  Would the mystery investor please speak up if you are ok discussing this publicly?

Mark me down as in favor of this anonymous lender being allowed to recoup their investment plus a generous amount.

Alternatively, and even better in my opinion, create a UIA, crowdsource the funding, then use future stealth fees to buy back the UIA.

Mark me down as 100% firmly opposed to them having lifetime royalties forever. In fact, mark me down as insulted by the proposal,.