BitShares Forum
Other => Graveyard => BitShares PTS => Topic started by: bytemaster on November 03, 2013, 05:32:22 pm
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Owning BitShares PTS is a way to acquire future BitShares and speculate on their value today!
What is BitShares PTS?
BitShares PTS is a class of crypto-currency that let you capture a position in one or more cool new DACs before they are ever implemented. The speculative value of PTS is a subjective mix of three market
perception pillars. These pillars are the market’s assessment of:
• The speculative value of a future DAC share.
• The probability that the DAC can and will be successfully fielded.
• Confidence that the PTS will map to an equitable share in the implementation.
... summed across all DACs that announce there intention to honor PTS holders with shares when launched.
Developers use BitShares PTS to capture early adopter interest in their new idea.
Investors use PTS to get in on the ground floor of an entire new industry. Instead of enduring the hassles and costs of mining every new DAC into existence, they focus on acquiring PTS once and for all, and thereby claim a stake in every new DAC that honors BitShares PTS.
Developers and Investors start on a level playing field for obtaining BitShares PTS. They are being slowly mined and easily accessible from public exchanges as one of the top crypto-currencies on the market.
What about that Third Pillar?
The third Public Perception Pillar is confidence that owning a DAC’s PTS will translate into
actual ownership of an equitable share in the objective DAC. It is up to the DAC developer to convince
the market that this will happen using whatever social consensus the market will accept. The PTS Social Consensus is simply:
At our DAC’s pre-published launch time, a DAC’s genesis block shall be initialized
to precisely match the current unspent outputs of the corresponding BitShares PTS blockchain.
For every BitShares PTS proto-share you hold at that launch time, you now have a corresponding
share in the DAC accessible via the same public address to which you hold a private key.
That’s it. Simple. Easy to understand. Real hard to renege.
You can read about the latest, more general form here: http://invictus-innovations.com/social-consensus/
What do you mean “real hard to renege” on your social consensus?
Who would want to abandon the entire universe of informed early adopters by reneging on their rights as
founding shareholders? In this business, the network effect of market share is everything. Besides, if
someone deploys an open-source DAC without honoring the social contract to its PTS holders,
someone else will simply fork the open source code, and honor that contract. Bingo, they’re in business!
The network effect of informed early adopters will do the rest and the reneging developer’s implementation
will go into the dustbin of history.
BitShares PTS were designed to be mined into existence according to the curves below. This has been considerably accelerated in practice by the overwhelming amount of interest from the mining community.
(http://the-iland.net/static/images/ProtoSharesMoneySupply.png)
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As a financial Compliance office and developer I'm currently working with several partners in regards of building a exchange that will be core for the main forex market place and compliant with trade rules and regulations. We have been working with NYSE and CME and really interested in moving into this side of the market. if you have any suggestions or wish to participate lat me know
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As a financial Compliance office and developer I'm currently working with several partners in regards of building a exchange that will be core for the main forex market place and compliant with trade rules and regulations. We have been working with NYSE and CME and really interested in moving into this side of the market. if you have any suggestions or wish to participate lat me know
can I ask that there would be any potential legal issues with protoshares/bitshares? like how bitcoin is abused by criminals, bitshares can be abused too, and the govt can pick on Invictus Corp.
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As a financial Compliance office and developer I'm currently working with several partners in regards of building a exchange that will be core for the main forex market place and compliant with trade rules and regulations. We have been working with NYSE and CME and really interested in moving into this side of the market. if you have any suggestions or wish to participate lat me know
can I ask that there would be any potential legal issues with proto-shares/bitshares? like how bitcoin is abused by criminals, bitshares can be abused too, and the govt can pick on Invictus Corp.
Pick on me they may, stop BitShares and Proto-Shares they will not. The point of this coin is to establish market demand for BitShares + other ideas of Invictus. ANYONE could implement it and the social contract would be enforced because it is all open source code :)
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I noticed that Mastercoin is trying to do something very similar to BitUSD only using trusted price feeds. His code is all open source so if Mastercoin works out then anyone could create a fork of Mastercoin that honors the ProtoShares positions and as a result compete against Mastercoin. In fact, his latest design for BitUSD was inspired after I revealed problems in his original design. I would go so far as to say that Mastercoin is an implementation of BitShares without dividends.
In fact, ANY new altchain should honor ProtoShares positions if they want to adopt our user base. The social contract behind ProtoShares is that it will serve as the 'pre-mine' seed for all future crypto-assets and any chain of value that does not honor it can be forked to honor it.
If this social contract gets strong enough, no new altcoin will be able to start without honoring it and therefore ProtoShares become the most highly sought-after coin in the crypto-currency space.
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Traducción al español no oficial del primer post: http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=471
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His code is all open source so if Mastercoin works out then anyone could create a fork of Mastercoin that honors the ProtoShares positions and as a result compete against Mastercoin. In fact, his latest design for BitUSD was inspired after I revealed problems in his original design.
because anyone can easily "create" another Mastercoin that honours Protoshares positions, then this means that it doesnt really matter if msc or bitshares comes out successful, the real prob here is to ensure that people adopt protoshares and the idea?
In fact, ANY new altchain should honor ProtoShares positions if they want to adopt our user base. The social contract behind ProtoShares is that it will serve as the 'pre-mine' seed for all future crypto-assets and any chain of value that does not honor it can be forked to honor it.
but how do we ensure that the newly-created DAC in the future will honour the positions? because they might be created by just anyone? i have actually read your arguments on this somewhere but wasnt completely clear about it ;P mind to elaborate ?
thanks
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His code is all open source so if Mastercoin works out then anyone could create a fork of Mastercoin that honors the PTS positions and as a result compete against Mastercoin. In fact, his latest design for BitUSD was inspired after I revealed problems in his original design.
because anyone can easily "create" another Mastercoin that honours Protoshares positions, then this means that it doesnt really matter if msc or bitshares comes out successful, the real prob here is to ensure that people adopt protoshares and the idea?
In fact, ANY new altchain should honor PTS positions if they want to adopt our user base. The social contract behind ProtoShares is that it will serve as the 'pre-mine' seed for all future crypto-assets and any chain of value that does not honor it can be forked to honor it.
but how do we ensure that the newly-created DAC in the future will honour the positions? because they might be created by just anyone? i have actually read your arguments on this somewhere but wasnt completely clear about it ;P mind to elaborate ?
thanks
You cannot force anyone to do anything, but in this market is is all network effect. If someone comes up with a compelling implementation then you can adopt the entire PTS community for the cost of generating a new genesis block. The individual who decided to start from scratch would have to build an entire new community around his system. Considering the network effect, I suspect that the coin that honors ProtoShares will win.
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so imho, bitshare is better than msc in the sense that the former pays div while the latter one doesnt. what's you opinion on that ?
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so imho, bitshare is better than msc in the sense that the former pays div while the latter one doesnt. what's you opinion on that ?
BitShares is better also because it uses real market forces, lower overhead, faster transactions, etc. I am not too concerned about competing with Mastercoin in this market, though we are attempting to work together in ways that I cannot discuss right now.
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so imho, bitshare is better than msc in the sense that the former pays div while the latter one doesnt. what's you opinion on that ?
BitShares is better also because it uses real market forces, lower overhead, faster transactions, etc. I am not too concerned about competing with Mastercoin in this market, though we are attempting to work together in ways that I cannot discuss right now.
WOW, that is an exciting news. I really hope things can work out. Can't imagine how powerful you guy work together.
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i believe someone may have just proved you idea unsuccessful by stealing all pts, well 8/10... and counting... with a virus compiled on the 29th of october...!
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Virus?
What is going on?:P
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i believe someone may have just proved you idea unsuccessful by stealing all pts, well 8/10... and counting... with a virus compiled on the 29th of october...!
Say what? Evidence?
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PE header basic information
Target machine Intel 386 or later processors and compatible processors
Compilation timestamp 2013-10-29 17:15:25
Entry Point 0x000A1EE3
Number of sections 5
taken directly from :https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/43e315a525dade2bb23e8071619677caf58ecb381a56019fb740a23bf6a8f211/analysis/
the virus is from one of the founders? or programmers?
gave the code out a lil early to SOMEBODY ??? i can give you the origin ip too, just get it off the virus manifest... and maybe do something about it?
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PE header basic information
Target machine Intel 386 or later processors and compatible processors
Compilation timestamp 2013-10-29 17:15:25
Entry Point 0x000A1EE3
Number of sections 5
taken directly from :https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/43e315a525dade2bb23e8071619677caf58ecb381a56019fb740a23bf6a8f211/analysis/
the virus is from one of the founders? or programmers?
gave the code out a lil early to SOMEBODY ??? i can give you the origin ip too, just get it off the virus manifest... and maybe do something about it?
DNS Requests: ypool.net (213.165.94.246)
Looks like the virus writers were aware of ypool and given the release date (November 4th) ypool was an unknown quantity.
The proof of work algorithm was public for about 2 weeks prior to launch.
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Shut em down!
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how? they and their botnet switched ip and are off eating all the blocks... still...
could get the ip the virus connects to now, but i have a feeling is shielded, unless you bot there..lol...
and he still won't payout? lol
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I received my payout. plus, how would it be possible to code a virus to the miner when the source code is public?
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what do you mean? if you gave then the code, they import right into virus!
i have sent email to aws to see if they will remove the virus get address...
but that won't stop the prolly 100k machines that ARE MINING YOUR CHAIN!!!
if there's no point to mining, or even having a wallet, when 8/10th STOLEN!!!
I GUESS WHAT I AM ASKING IS are you in on it, or does pts keep running on 100k botnet...
BEEEEER seems to be only pool left... and gets like 5 blocks for every hundred...
somewhere the botnet is still hashing...
So, you letting them steal your futures?
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what do you mean? if you gave then the code, they import right into virus!
i have sent email to aws to see if they will remove the virus get address...
but that won't stop the prolly 100k machines that ARE MINING YOUR CHAIN!!!
if there's no point to mining, or even having a wallet, when 8/10th STOLEN!!!
I GUESS WHAT I AM ASKING IS are you in on it, or does pts keep running on 100k botnet...
BEEEEER seems to be only pool left... and gets like 5 blocks for every hundred...
somewhere the botnet is still hashing...
So, you letting them steal your futures?
I certainly am not in on it! This is one of the arguments for the use of ASICs. It is impossible to create an Open Source, CPU coin, that is not subject to botnets.
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unfortunately it's kinda normal that altcoin mining software is flagged as malicious by antivirus companies
happened to my primecoin mining software too (to my binaries!) after botnet operators started to use it
i guess it happens for the protoshare miners too
of course you'll always have to trust the one who's offering binaries if you choose to use software from other users on your own
on the other hand: build it yourself, it's open source for a reason
just my 2 cents
- xolokram
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I certainly am not in on it! This is one of the arguments for the use of ASICs. It is impossible to create an Open Source, CPU coin, that is not subject to botnets.
Why do you say impossible?
Surely we can find a way.
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nope, it is not
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I certainly am not in on it! This is one of the arguments for the use of ASICs. It is impossible to create an Open Source, CPU coin, that is not subject to botnets.
Why do you say impossible?
Surely we can find a way.
Its impossible because it means there must be centralized instance controlling who is allowed to mine and who is not. That is exactly the opposite of what a opensource cryptocoin should be designed for. CPU coins will always be a target of botnets.
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unfortunately it's kinda normal that altcoin mining software is flagged as malicious by antivirus companies
happened to my primecoin mining software too (to my binaries!) after botnet operators started to use it
i guess it happens for the protoshare miners too
of course you'll always have to trust the one who's offering binaries if you choose to use software from other users on your own
on the other hand: build it yourself, it's open source for a reason
just my 2 cents
- xolokram
this.
also, doesntmatter stop trolling.
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what do you mean? if you gave then the code, they import right into virus!
i have sent email to aws to see if they will remove the virus get address...
but that won't stop the prolly 100k machines that ARE MINING YOUR CHAIN!!!
if there's no point to mining, or even having a wallet, when 8/10th STOLEN!!!
I GUESS WHAT I AM ASKING IS are you in on it, or does pts keep running on 100k botnet...
BEEEEER seems to be only pool left... and gets like 5 blocks for every hundred...
somewhere the botnet is still hashing...
So, you letting them steal your futures?
Where are you getting this info that 100k machines are from a botnet? Wondering where to look to verify this.
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I noticed that Mastercoin is trying to do something very similar to BitUSD only using trusted price feeds. His code is all open source so if Mastercoin works out then anyone could create a fork of Mastercoin that honors the ProtoShares positions and as a result compete against Mastercoin. In fact, his latest design for BitUSD was inspired after I revealed problems in his original design. I would go so far as to say that Mastercoin is an implementation of BitShares without dividends.
In fact, ANY new altchain should honor ProtoShares positions if they want to adopt our user base. The social contract behind ProtoShares is that it will serve as the 'pre-mine' seed for all future crypto-assets and any chain of value that does not honor it can be forked to honor it.
If this social contract gets strong enough, no new altcoin will be able to start without honoring it and therefore ProtoShares become the most highly sought-after coin in the crypto-currency space.
This. Not going to pin my hopes on this, but this is exactly the potential of ProtoShares. The community can make or break it though.
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Why dont they honor bitcoins? What difference does PTS make?
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Well one can make Robot resistance , but probably not Robot invulnerability, however , being that PTS is of a critical number , if I were the PTS ceo this issue would be high on my agenda .
What im saying is if gigawatt had any useful implementation its probably of critial importance to fork the design and try to take positve action , if the implementation uses more memory or memory in a "more effective " way this can be of use as the target zombie machine will likely not function......
However if it is scaleable then its of no use .
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Remember robots need retarded humans to function as well , unfortunately the issue isnt going away any time soon .
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I don't see the first post :(
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Everything I needed. Thank you!
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I have purchased some ProtoShares because I believe in the ideas around a decentralized shares trading platform.
I have purchased the ProtoShares on the Cryptsy exchange and am holding them on the exchange (as I cant get the ProtoShare client to work on my PC).
But how will I be rewarded with BitShares?
Do the ProtoShares have to be in the ProtoShare client for me to get BitShares?
Thanks allot
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I have purchased some ProtoShares because I believe in the ideas around a decentralized shares trading platform.
I have purchased the ProtoShares on the Cryptsy exchange and am holding them on the exchange (as I cant get the ProtoShare client to work on my PC).
But how will I be rewarded with BitShares?
Do the ProtoShares have to be in the ProtoShare client for me to get BitShares?
Thanks allot
When the time comes, they show up in your wallet automatically whenever it syncs with the network.
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I have purchased some ProtoShares because I believe in the ideas around a decentralized shares trading platform.
I have purchased the ProtoShares on the Cryptsy exchange and am holding them on the exchange (as I cant get the ProtoShare client to work on my PC).
But how will I be rewarded with BitShares?
Do the ProtoShares have to be in the ProtoShare client for me to get BitShares?
Thanks allot
The protoshares will most likely have to be in your wallet when they release bitshares, not in the exchange, but you will have to talk to the exchange owners to be certan.
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I have purchased some ProtoShares because I believe in the ideas around a decentralized shares trading platform.
I have purchased the ProtoShares on the Cryptsy exchange and am holding them on the exchange (as I cant get the ProtoShare client to work on my PC).
But how will I be rewarded with BitShares?
Do the ProtoShares have to be in the ProtoShare client for me to get BitShares?
Thanks allot
The protoshares will most likely have to be in your wallet when they release bitshares, not in the exchange, but you will have to talk to the exchange owners to be certan.
If you do not control the private key, then you will be at the mercy of the exchange to honor the social contract.
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I am not understanding how I will receive shares in new DACs.
I currently have my ProtoShares stored on the Cryptsy exchange. Is this okay?
If I dont make use of a ProtoShare client on my computer will I still obtain shares in DACs?
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I currently have my ProtoShares stored on the Cryptsy exchange. Is this okay?
NO! Ask for help if needed to install your wallet on your computer. Do not keep money on the exchanges.
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I am not understanding how I will receive shares in new DACs.
I currently have my ProtoShares stored on the Cryptsy exchange. Is this okay?
If I dont make use of a ProtoShare client on my computer will I still obtain shares in DACs?
Depends upon who is holding your PTS for you. We don't know WHO has the PTS, we just know what addresses have it.
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Thanks for the info
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A PTS Client link should be posted on top here
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Is my protoshare public key the address I use to receive protoshares from others?
I just need to know what my public key is so that I can use it to dump my private key.
And eventually use that private key to claim future DAC shares (all correct?)
Thanks
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I have a comprehension question:
Let's say I have 10 ProtoShares.
In a few weeks/months/years there are 10/100/1000 different DACs.
What will be my "share" of every DAC?
Will I have 10 "BitShares" in each of the 10/100/1000 DACs (and in every future DAC) just by holding my 10 PTS?
Will my 10 PTS be converted into 10 BTS for every DAC?
If so:
If I hold 10 PTS until there are 100 DACs and I thereby have 10 BTS in each of those 100 DACS - and then I sell 5 of my PTS.
Will I have 5 BTS in every DAC created after the 100 DACs and keep the 10 BTS in each of the first 100 DACs?
If so:
selling PTS - ever - would be a no-go, wouldn't it?
As PTS are "all-purpose" and there will be only about 2 million PTS - their price MUST skyrocket if DACs will be successful?
BTS instead are not "all-purpose", you can buy them (you can mine them?) but only put them into a chosen DAC "once" and they are "gone" (into that DAC), until you pull them out of that DAC und put them into another DAC right?
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I have a comprehension question:
Let's say I have 10 ProtoShares.
In a few weeks/months/years there are 10/100/1000 different DACs.
What will be my "share" of every DAC?
Will I have 10 "BitShares" in each of the 10/100/1000 DACs (and in every future DAC) just by holding my 10 PTS?
Will my 10 PTS be converted into 10 BTS for every DAC?
If so:
If I hold 10 PTS until there are 100 DACs and I thereby have 10 BTS in each of those 100 DACS - and then I sell 5 of my PTS.
Will I have 5 BTS in every DAC created after the 100 DACs and keep the 10 BTS in each of the first 100 DACs?
If so:
selling PTS - ever - would be a no-go, wouldn't it?
As PTS are "all-purpose" and there will be only about 2 million PTS - their price MUST skyrocket if DACs will be successful?
BTS instead are not "all-purpose", you can buy them (you can mine them?) but only put them into a chosen DAC "once" and they are "gone" (into that DAC), until you pull them out of that DAC und put them into another DAC right?
By George, I think he's got it! :)
ProtoShares are an investment in an entire DAC product line - perhaps an entire DAC industry.
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By George, I think he's got it! :)
ProtoShares are an investment in an entire DAC product line - perhaps an entire DAC industry.
Thanks. That means I'm rich. You will get an invitation to my private island! :)
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By George, I think he's got it! :)
ProtoShares are an investment in an entire DAC product line - perhaps an entire DAC industry.
Thanks. That means I'm rich. You will get an invitation to my private island! :)
Will the primary industry on your island be DACs?
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Is my protoshare public key the address I use to receive protoshares from others?
I just need to know what my public key is so that I can use it to dump my private key.
And eventually use that private key to claim future DAC shares (all correct?)
Thanks
Still struggling with this one guys
Thanks
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I'm pretty certain that you can just import your PTS wallet into the wallets for the future DACs, so you shouldn't need to dump the private key. If you want to get the private key for some other reason, you can just go to the console and type "dumpprivkey <your PTS address>" and it'll give you the private key
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Is my protoshare public key the address I use to receive protoshares from others?
I just need to know what my public key is so that I can use it to dump my private key.
And eventually use that private key to claim future DAC shares (all correct?)
Thanks
Still struggling with this one guys
Thanks
Remember that your wallet contains several addresses that it doesn't display. These are change addresses used if you've ever sent less than your entire balance to another address. When you view your wallet balance it automatically adds up all the addresses in the key pool of that .dat file.
If you decide to go the route of dumping your private key please make sure to read up on change addresses and also the various console commands (like listaddressgroupings) to list all the addresses with balances in the .dat file. Otherwise when you import your privkey to another wallet you won't see the balance you're expecting.
Another option is to do the following:
1) Create a new wallet.dat file by exiting the client, renaming your existing .dat to something else, and then restarting the client.
2) Note down the public address of this new wallet.dat, encrypt the wallet, dump the privkey and note it down as well.
3) Shutdown the client and copy the wallet.dat to somewhere else safe.
4) Copy your original wallet.dat file back and start the client.
5) Send all your coins to the address you noted down in step 2.
This should leave you with an empty wallet and all your coins stored under a single address and privkey. I plan to do this before the BTS block is poured.
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I'm pretty certain that you can just import your PTS wallet into the wallets for the future DACs, so you shouldn't need to dump the private key. If you want to get the private key for some other reason, you can just go to the console and type "dumpprivkey <your PTS address>" and it'll give you the private key
I have tasked a developer to implement a method to import a PTS wallet and all public keys. You can simply point your BTS wallet at your PTS wallet and import the keys. Should make life easy for people who want to migrate.
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Is my protoshare public key the address I use to receive protoshares from others?
I just need to know what my public key is so that I can use it to dump my private key.
And eventually use that private key to claim future DAC shares (all correct?)
Thanks
Still struggling with this one guys
Thanks
PTS addresses appear to be version 56. This website shows how to confirm that yourself: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Vanitygen.
If you want to generate PTS addresses outside of the QT wallet program then you can use vanitygen like this:
$ ./vanitygen -X 56 P
Difficulty: 1
Pattern: P
Address: PmzUaMxQy2qGjDkp5yKvY1G7StALUKJ934
Privkey: 7BXZZYxWnS3MXCBcjmoaNVHZjEWAbLMMZHVavwA9AXxnXGUD5gA
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Thanks people. This is all very helpful :)
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I have a comprehension question:
Let's say I have 10 ProtoShares.
In a few weeks/months/years there are 10/100/1000 different DACs.
What will be my "share" of every DAC?
Will I have 10 "BitShares" in each of the 10/100/1000 DACs (and in every future DAC) just by holding my 10 PTS?
Will my 10 PTS be converted into 10 BTS for every DAC?
If so:
If I hold 10 PTS until there are 100 DACs and I thereby have 10 BTS in each of those 100 DACS - and then I sell 5 of my PTS.
Will I have 5 BTS in every DAC created after the 100 DACs and keep the 10 BTS in each of the first 100 DACs?
If so:
selling PTS - ever - would be a no-go, wouldn't it?
As PTS are "all-purpose" and there will be only about 2 million PTS - their price MUST skyrocket if DACs will be successful?
BTS instead are not "all-purpose", you can buy them (you can mine them?) but only put them into a chosen DAC "once" and they are "gone" (into that DAC), until you pull them out of that DAC und put them into another DAC right?
By George, I think he's got it! :)
ProtoShares are an investment in an entire DAC product line - perhaps an entire DAC industry.
I'm wondering about the example numbers in his post. I get the concepts...but is it accurate to say that one protoshare is going to equal one bitshare in every DAC, or is this going to be some ratio that fluctuates on a case-by-case basis?
Question two: to keep the 1:1 simplicity...my 100 PTS means i have 100 bitshares in DAC XYZ. So then I sell 25 PTS. Does that also sell the 25 bitshares in DAC XYZ, or are those two entities separate? (editing this to say it looks like this question he had already addressed in his post above)
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I'm wondering about the example numbers in his post. I get the concepts...but is it accurate to say that one protoshare is going to equal one bitshare in every DAC, or is this going to be some ratio that fluctuates on a case-by-case basis?
Question two: to keep the 1:1 simplicity...my 100 PTS means i have 100 bitshares in DAC XYZ. So then I sell 25 PTS. Does that also sell the 25 bitshares in DAC XYZ, or are those two entities separate? (editing this to say it looks like this question he had already addressed in his post above)
PTS will represent 10% of the money supply of new coins in the genesis block.
BitSares, DAC is one of the DACs that will be launched in the future. BitShares, DAC will have a total of 20 million BitShares. The BitShares, DAC will honor the social contract it has with PTS, so that 10% of the BitShares will be given to PTS holders.
In the case of BitShares a 1:1 ratio is being used (because BitShares has 20 million shares and there are going to be 2 million PTS). So if you own 100PTS you will get 100 BitShares. The reward is given once in the life-time of a DAC (upon launch of the company/genesis block).
After this point in time you can sell PTS and you will still have your BitShares and vica verse.
Hope that helps
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PTS will represent 10% of the money supply of new coins in the genesis block.
BitSares, DAC is one of the DACs that will be launched in the future. BitShares, DAC will have a total of 20 million BitShares. The BitShares, DAC will honor the social contract it has with PTS, so that 10% of the BitShares will be given to PTS holders.
In the case of BitShares a 1:1 ratio is being used (because BitShares has 20 million shares and there are going to be 2 million PTS). So if you own 100PTS you will get 100 BitShares. The reward is given once in the life-time of a DAC (upon launch of the company/genesis block).
After this point in time you can sell PTS and you will still have your BitShares and vica verse.
Hope that helps
That is a big help. Thank you for taking the time to educate a newbie.
OK, so bitshares is itself a DAC.
So, what of another DAC? If we're going to have another DAC called furryrabbit, does furryrabbit also start out granting 10% of its shares to Protoshares holders, or do other DACs have a relationship to bitshares instead? And about the percentage: can the person who starts furryrabbit set that percentage at whatever they want?
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Unless another DAC somehow links itself to Bitshares,DAC, no other DACs will not be tied to it.
If furryrabbit, DAC is created by Invictus then 10% of its money supply will go to protoshare holders.
If furry rabbit is created by another person/compaby they will choose if they want to honor the protoshare holders or not. If they do not, then more money supply will be available for its new users. However if they do honour the protoshare social contract they immidietly get a large user base of protoshare holders on their new DAC which may help their DAC sucseed. In which case you as a protoshare holder will get some furryrabbit coin.
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For every protoshare you hold at that launch time, you now have a corresponding
share in the DAC accessible via the same public address to which you hold a private key.
That’s it. Simple. Easy to understand. Real hard to renege.
So f:ex if i hold 100 PTS in my wallet at launch it will also contain 100 Bitshares?
So what happens if i hold my PTS at f:ex Cryptsy at launch?
Just wondering because i cant get my wallet to sync..
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Cryptsy will get your 100 Bitshares
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Cryptsy will get your 100 Bitshares
Aight. Cause my wallet refuse to sync. I have added all addnodes i can find and it been up for like 1 hour and still 0 connections.
How long does it take for people to get connected and sync?
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Cryptsy will get your 100 Bitshares
Aight. Cause my wallet refuse to sync. I have added all addnodes i can find and it been up for like 1 hour and still 0 connections.
How long does it take for people to get connected and sync?
Last I heard it took 30 minutes...
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Cryptsy will get your 100 Bitshares
Aight. Cause my wallet refuse to sync. I have added all addnodes i can find and it been up for like 1 hour and still 0 connections.
How long does it take for people to get connected and sync?
Last I heard it took 30 minutes...
I am not sure if I can add an attachment in this thread. I can provide you my peers.dat file which include all the node I have. My PTS client sync quickly every time I start it.
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Thanks so far! I like your ideas :)
I think my last two questions aer the most important ones...
Just so I understand it fully... In your October Newsletter you say
"Developers use ProtoShares to raise capital with which to implement a new idea. They are a new
decentralized form of crowd sourcing using incorruptible block chain technology in lieu of lawyers,
bankers and regulators to fund and launch a start-up company."
-> How do I know the DAC publishers/developers will reward each protoshare with one "actual share" in the "actual" blockchain? Is that written into the protoshare or does that rely on trust... ?
-> Is it that a protoshare owner (the protoshares you can buy now) will have one "actual share/coin" in every dac you develop for every protoshare owened by this owner? Or does this only count for every dac that involves bitshares when every protoshare owner will have the same amount of bitshares as he has protoshares?
-> Is a dac defined by producing a currency that can increase in value? Keyhotee as I undersand it is a dac buy what currency does it involve that could increase in value? <<-- I think I understand this one: The developer of a dac can set any reward ( doesnt have to be the rise of a currency). Correct?
-> You are speacking of a social contract... The social contract in case of protoshares would be to get one bitshare for ervy protoshare? If the Protoshare after this is not destroyed/worthless what is it good for after that? Are the protoshares issued/mined now part of more social contracts that the one I described above? <<-- I think I can also answer this one: The social contract is to get the group of pts owners gets 10% of each dac Invictus ever releases... And this contract is a verbal one, ensured by Invictus' dependence on the trust of the cummunity?
-> How can that work, that I get a share of every company that tries to implement a similar (how is similar defined) idea? In case of the browsers (safari, netscape etc.): I can only imagine that each developer (group) puts out their protoshares and by buying them you bet on a sucessfull implementation. But why should I get a slice of every brwoser? What would motivate all these brwoser develeopers to give me a share if I didnt mine/buy their specific protoshares? I think i am still missing something... :-/
-> Most practical question: How do I know when you will realease your dacs (bitshares will be the first I guess)? Because I want to wait for btc to fall to buy pts. ...regarding the need to have pts in the private pts wallet at the time of eg bitsahres release. Is there a newsletter to sign up for or a rough date?
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-> How do I know the DAC publishers/developers will reward each protoshare with one "actual share" in the "actual" blockchain? Is that written into the protoshare or does that rely on trust... ?
Developers stake their reputation on it. Renege and you are out of business in this domain.
-> Is it that a protoshare owner (the protoshares you can buy now) will have one "actual share/coin" in every dac you develop for every protoshare owened by this owner? Or does this only count for every dac that involves bitshares when every protoshare owner will have the same amount of bitshares as he has protoshares?
Every DAC Invictus develops, 1 for 1, guaranteed. Other developers may make similar guarantees if so motivated. MemoryCoin 2.0 is an example with a different ratio.
-> Is a dac defined by producing a currency that can increase in value? Keyhotee as I undersand it is a dac buy what currency does it involve that could increase in value? <<-- I think I understand this one: The developer of a dac can set any reward ( doesnt have to be the rise of a currency). Correct?
DACs are unmanned companies. Businesses designed to make a profit from services rendered, usually by charging transaction fees for those services. Profits are shared among stakeholders as dividends. Appreciation happens when demand for those services drives up the price of the shares/coins needed to buy those services. Keyhotee is not a DAC. It is an application you use for secure interactions with DACs, and mere people.
-> You are speacking of a social contract... The social contract in case of protoshares would be to get one bitshare for ervy protoshare? If the Protoshare after this is not destroyed/worthless what is it good for after that? Are the protoshares issued/mined now part of more social contracts that the one I described above? <<-- I think I can also answer this one: The social contract is to get the group of pts owners gets 10% of each dac Invictus ever releases... And this contract is a verbal one, ensured by Invictus' dependence on the trust of the community?
ProtoShares continue to be valuable as long as there are more DACs in development that will honor them. A social contract is a formally stated promise of something you will do for which the whole community will hold you accountable. You forfeit your business if you break it, for no one will trust you after that. DACs are trustless. DAC developers must be trusted to develop the DAC and give up control. If you can’t be trusted, you can’t be a successful DAC developer.
-> How can that work, that I get a share of every company that tries to implement a similar (how is similar defined) idea? In case of the browsers (safari, netscape etc.): I can only imagine that each developer (group) puts out their protoshares and by buying them you bet on a sucessfull implementation. But why should I get a slice of every brwoser? What would motivate all these brwoser develeopers to give me a share if I didnt mine/buy their specific protoshares? I think i am still missing something... :-/
It is a voluntary exchange where a developer gives up shares to gain the attention and support of a group of people. Most coins are simply given away to the general public hoping to attract the right supporters. ProtoShareholders are a distillation of all the right supporters. The most important supporters to attract are those who understand DACs already and believe in their potential. People who have lots of ProtoShares to reinvest. Attracting those eyeballs is hugely more valuable than the average casual observer. MemoryCoin 2.0 is a great example. You see the buzz it generated by adopting this community with only 1%. As more DACs compete for those most valuable eyeballs, the share needed to attract their attention will go up. Get ProtoShares. Be Somebody.
-> Most practical question: How do I know when you will realease your dacs (bitshares will be the first I guess)? Because I want to wait for btc to fall to buy pts. ...regarding the need to have pts in the private pts wallet at the time of eg bitsahres release. Is there a newsletter to sign up for or a rough date?
We will announce the precise ProtoShares block from which the fork will take place at least two weeks in advance. You get them if you control their address at the time. Don't leave them on an exchange at that time. Use the ContactUs link at invictus-innovations.com.
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Thanks. All makes sense!
I am more coming from a perspective of social science.... and I see a lot of positive potential for solving some of the problems hugh anonymous groups (humanity) have to solve in the oncoming century.... It all goes the same direction, in technology and in the organization of groups...
Keep on doing what you do!
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.... I would suggest though to make it more clear (like a warning, prominent when you talk about protoshares on your website or elsewhere) that pts have to be in local wallets. I went trough your website, a radio interview on lettalkbitcoin, the c3 conference video and quite a few forum articles and I didnt recognize this necessity before. Maybe that's just because I'm not a techie... :) Not invictus' reputation suffers from this...
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Guys excuse my technical incompetence but i want to be sure I have things properly set up with protoshares.
So I have purchased some protoshares and transferred some for my invictus ID and some to the client on my mac.
I have then closed the client (as i'm not a miner) and saved the .dat file (backed up in numerous places).
Is this enough for me to ensure I receive BTS providing I don't transfer out of the client?
Lastly what are public and private keys?
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Guys excuse my technical incompetence but i want to be sure I have things properly set up with protoshares.
So I have purchased some protoshares and transferred some for my invictus ID and some to the client on my mac.
I have then closed the client (as i'm not a miner) and saved the .dat file (backed up in numerous places).
Is this enough for me to ensure I receive BTS providing I don't transfer out of the client?
Lastly what are public and private keys?
Yes
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How do you get this invictus ID? Im still not clear on that and is the invictus ID required to get the forked bitshares when the are realised?
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http://invictus-innovations.com/founder-sign-up
Or wait till January and get a free regular ID. Not needed to get forked. :)
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Ok read the entire thread unfortunatly with much confusion. I have bought PTS on cryptsy and moved them to my offline wallet. How are BT shares now distributed. How do you know they are there?
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Ok read the entire thread unfortunatly with much confusion. I have bought PTS on cryptsy and moved them to my offline wallet. How are BT shares now distributed. How do you know they are there?
Don't worry. It's actually not that difficult, and when the time is near, there will be some instructions on the site.
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ok thanks for now ill just hang on to the PTS that ive got. i guess it will probably be my loss due to my inability to understand how all these other shares tie in which limits me from purchasing more.
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ok thanks for now ill just hang on to the PTS that ive got. i guess it will probably be my loss due to my inability to understand how all these other shares tie in which limits me from purchasing more.
If you send what you have to the angel address you can magnify your future stake and all you give up is the ability to sell what you have until after we launch bitshares.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
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Are you saying i should send my PTS share to the address given as an investement into angel shares? I did this to the angelwallet address using BTC I would be interested in sending some of my PTS to the other wallet given however where is the reference or (receipt) of this having occured . How do I have proof that I have sent them other than in my wallet itself.
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Are you saying i should send my PTS share to the address given as an investement into angel shares? I did this to the angelwallet address using BTC I would be interested in sending some of my PTS to the other wallet given however where is the reference or (receipt) of this having occured . How do I have proof that I have sent them other than in my wallet itself.
The blockchain functions as a public receipt system. If you want to see all the donations that have been sent to the PTS address, here's a link: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw (https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw)
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Are you saying i should send my PTS share to the address given as an investement into angel shares? I did this to the angelwallet address using BTC I would be interested in sending some of my PTS to the other wallet given however where is the reference or (receipt) of this having occured . How do I have proof that I have sent them other than in my wallet itself.
The blockchain functions as a public receipt system. If you want to see all the donations that have been sent to the PTS address, here's a link: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw (https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw)
Thank you very helpful link will bookmark this. Now again what benefit do I have to now send my newly purchased PTS to the angel wallet?
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Are you saying i should send my PTS share to the address given as an investement into angel shares? I did this to the angelwallet address using BTC I would be interested in sending some of my PTS to the other wallet given however where is the reference or (receipt) of this having occured . How do I have proof that I have sent them other than in my wallet itself.
The blockchain functions as a public receipt system. If you want to see all the donations that have been sent to the PTS address, here's a link: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw (https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw)
Thank you very helpful link will bookmark this. Now again what benefit do I have to now send my newly purchased PTS to the angel wallet?
The address that you send your PTS from will have angel shares. These can't be traded, but they will still give you shares in future DACs. There will be 5000 AGS issued to the people who donate PTS each day. The first day is everything between now and the end of January 1, 2014 (GMT). You receive a share of these 5000 AGS by donating, your share is equal to the % of total funds for the day that you donated. For example, if you donate 150 out of 900 PTS, you would receive 16.666% of the angel shares created that day, which is 833.33333333 angel shares, out of 5000. Angel Shares will be honored with at least 10% of the total currency in all invictus sponsored DACs, so you can greatly increase your stake by donating. The cost is that angel shares can't be traded, so you have to be in for the long haul
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Sent to addres "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" txid "4e85e0de597de2ea25bdd6d80052c2e8b5edd22988934179685a30a9ea539380". Is a sucker born every minute?
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Sent to addres "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" txid "4e85e0de597de2ea25bdd6d80052c2e8b5edd22988934179685a30a9ea539380". Is a sucker born every minute?
Is this your donation , are you the sucker?
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how can any form of "property" be non transferable...
whats to stop a person from taking the money (pts whatever) and just never starting anything after that... pledge money for the future of WHAT? and just cause there's a record means nothing...
if fact, shouldn't PTS holders be entitled to 10% OF THOSE ANGELSHARES PER YOUR ORIGINAL AGREEMENT!!!
IS THIS NOT A DAC I CRY?!?!?!?
WHAT WILL YOU TRY NEXT???
do i need to go quote you from your posts? pts entitle you to...
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how can any form of "property" be non transferable...
whats to stop a person from taking the money (pts whatever) and just never starting anything after that... pledge money for the future of WHAT? and just cause there's a record means nothing...
if fact, shouldn't PTS holders be entitled to 10% OF THOSE ANGELSHARES PER YOUR ORIGINAL AGREEMENT!!!
IS THIS NOT A DAC I CRY?!?!?!?
WHAT WILL YOU TRY NEXT???
do i need to go quote you from your posts? pts entitle you to...
Angel Shares are not distributed, since they are only issued by 3I. They are not autonomous, since 3I controls them. They are not a company, since they offer no services. Therefore, they are not a DAC. If you're worried that 3I will just take the PTS sent to the Angel Shares address and run, then you shouldn't even invest in PTS, since withiout 3I many DACs will likely never be created
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Sent to addres "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" txid "4e85e0de597de2ea25bdd6d80052c2e8b5edd22988934179685a30a9ea539380". Is a sucker born every minute?
Is this your donation , are you the sucker?
I don't know, am I? I guess I don't really know what I'm supposed to do. I thought PTS was actually a "share" in something greater, but I don't now what I'm supposed to do to qualify. I thought sending PTS to that address was the thing to do. Am I wrong?
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Sent to addres "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" txid "4e85e0de597de2ea25bdd6d80052c2e8b5edd22988934179685a30a9ea539380". Is a sucker born every minute?
Is this your donation , are you the sucker?
I don't know, am I? I guess I don't really know what I'm supposed to do. I thought PTS was actually a "share" in something greater, but I don't now what I'm supposed to do to qualify. I thought sending PTS to that address was the thing to do. Am I wrong?
I think you're good. Just make sure you keep your wallet that you sent from, that's really important.
More info here: http://invictus-innovations.com/how-to-get-angelshares
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I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....
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I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....
Just the opposite...
If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC. I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community.
If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%... no?
:)
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I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....
Just the opposite...
If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC. I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community.
If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%... no?
:)
As a PTS holder I'd have a stake in both (10% in one, 20% in the other) so I don't think I'd feel courted away...unless you mean I'd be more likely to use/support/endorse the 20% service because I have double the interest in it succeeding?
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I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....
Just the opposite...
If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC. I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community.
If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%... no?
:)
As a PTS holder I'd have a stake in both (10% in one, 20% in the other) so I don't think I'd feel courted away...unless you mean I'd be more likely to use/support/endorse the 20% service because I have double the interest in it succeeding?
In the end, even Invictus will be interested in something we own, even if it competes with something else we own.
If someone launched a better BitShares right now and honored our PTS/AGS we'd say - "thanks for saving us the trouble" and then get on with using it (and improving on it). In the open source world, does it really matter who built it?
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I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....
Just the opposite...
If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC. I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community.
If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%... no?
:)
This is an interesting playing field.
It's a balance between the obvious benefits (easy way to a distributed shareholder base -> advocates / marketers of DAC) against not receiving the part of the money that PTS holders dont have to pay in the initial funding / presale if its a POS Coin. Maybe nothing that weighs out the benefits.. What other benefits does the dac developer have then the one named above?
Why do you think nxt or mastercoin which have some similar features (in terms of claimed functions) like Bitshares (although I think Bitshares is superior from what can be known by now) didn't honor protoshares?
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I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....
Just the opposite...
If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC. I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community.
If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%... no?
:)
This is an interesting playing field.
It's a balance between the obvious benefits (easy way to a distributed shareholder base -> advocates / marketers of DAC) against not receiving the part of the money that PTS holders dont have to pay in the initial funding / presale if its a POS Coin. Maybe nothing that weighs out the benefits.. What other benefits does the dac developer have then the one named above?
Why do you think nxt or mastercoin which have some similar features (in terms of claimed functions) like Bitshares (although I think Bitshares is superior from what can be known by now) didn't honor protoshares?
ProtoShares are only 2 months old.
AngelShares are only 2 weeks old.
As new developers weigh this as a potential new launch option, they have to consider what they would do instead that would be more advantageous:
AGS was originally viewed as Invictus-specific. We are only the caretakers, the management agents by which members of the community can crowd-fund common infrastructure and the ecosystem on which other DACs can quickly build. 100% of the funds raised are recycled back into the community to fund development and promotion by the community. Once the toolkit, infrastructure and ecosystem are built it belongs to the stakeholder community, not Invictus.
So now, as a DAC developer do you want to build on top of that ecosystem without honoring those that sacrificed to build it? How do you think those PTS and AGS holders collectively would view a new DAC that dissed their contributions? Who else will understand and appreciate your new DAC if you alienate them?
Would you rather build your own ecosystem and come up with the money to do that all over again independently? Why? To save 20% that would otherwise be given away in mining lotteries in an attempt to attract attention from somehow knowledgable non-stakeholders?
These are question every developer must ask. What do you think the wisest will choose? :)
And what about the opportunity costs of re-inventing the wheel?
I think developers will use this launch pad because its the most cost effective way to accelerate their path to fame and glory.
And when it's not, they won't.
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Solid. I overall agree :)
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I think developers will use this launch pad because its the most cost effective way to accelerate their path to fame and glory.
And when it's not, they won't.
I think this in a nutshell is why PTS/AGS as a platform, infrastructure, and SDK - more than a single product, will be a huge success. In the same way the Apple and Android app stores exploded because there were already so many users on each platform and the tools to quickly get apps out the door made it very compelling and also difficult to justify developing something from the ground up.
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I think developers will use this launch pad because its the most cost effective way to accelerate their path to fame and glory.
And when it's not, they won't.
I think this in a nutshell is why PTS/AGS as a platform, infrastructure, and SDK - more than a single product, will be a huge success. In the same way the Apple and Android app stores exploded because there were already so many users on each platform and the tools to quickly get apps out the door made it very compelling and also difficult to justify developing something from the ground up.
Agreed! Because this is a scaling market (economies of scale) heavily influenced by networks effects, reputation, marketing, technical superiority (everything ;)) pays out exponentially. This is something where VC money makes a difference.
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very useful
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Developers and Investors start on a level playing field for obtaining ProtoShares. Both may begin
mining and trading ProtoShares on a pre-announced Launch Date. The developer’s only advantage is in
believing more in the value of what they are developing and acquiring their ProtoShares before the
general market demand heats up. The slow release of new shares keeps supply in line with demand so
that share price can reflect the consensus value of the shares as the market takes an ever closer look at
the idea.
nice
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I want to make sure I understand everything fully....
A 3rd Party developer of a POS DAC would waive the money he would get from a presale (to the degree he gives tokens to PTS holders) for the advantage of attention and support by a diversified crowd (PTS holders). Is that right?
Would the following summary be comprehensive?
All PTS holders together get at least 10% of each DAC (precisely 10% of the tokens (coins) the DAC uses) Invictus will ever release (with Bitshares it will be 50%). This 10% slice will be proportional in distribution to the distribution of PTS. Apart from that other developers can do the same and give a certain percentage of their coins to PTS holders. The advantage for them would be that the DAC they release will immediately have the attention of all the PTS holders. And every person that owns a coin has an incentive to promote it or contribute to its development in whatever way so that the price of the coins this person owns increases. This audience (PTS holders) in addition is one that understands the potential and functioning of DACs well - it's an advantage to have such an initial user base instead of random miners. This is perfect for Proof of Work based DACs. Proof of stake DACs are missing out on the initial funding they would get... But they can waive a part of it to still have the support and attention from PTS holders. Furthermore DACs of non invictus developers will give the full 10% or more of their DAC tokens to PTS holders if Invictus assists the development or if the DAC is build based on Invictus
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What is happening to the value of this protoshares??? Keeps on going DOWN? When will be the new DACS release? Before was 1 Protoshare = 1 bitshare, Now what is this angelshares ? 50% angelshares + 50 % protoshares = bitshares ???? Please clarify.
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What is happening to the value of this protoshares??? Keeps on going DOWN? When will be the new DACS release? Before was 1 Protoshare = 1 bitshare, Now what is this angelshares ? 50% angelshares + 50 % protoshares = bitshares ???? Please clarify.
Don't worry. Before it was 1 Protoshare -> 1 Bitshare (BEXshare) but there will be 10 times as many bitshares as there will be protoshares. So 10% was planned. Now it is 50% (1 Protoshares -> 5 Bitshares).
And the price is going down due to a temporary technicality: It is more efficient to buy Angelshares with Bitcoin so people sell their Protoshares for Bitcoin....
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Uhm, how many protoshares will be produced?And when is the approximate date until all shares are mined? :D
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Uhm, how many protoshares will be produced?And when is the approximate date until all shares are mined? :D
There will be roughly 2 million. After that 1% inflation after 2 years.
There are 1.3 million mined up to now.
I am not sure but 99% should ROUGHLY be mined in the next 1-2 years.
Its is a logarithmic function....
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with the bitshares launch is upcoming will the ratio of Protoshares against bitshare still be 1:5?
What is happening to the value of this protoshares??? Keeps on going DOWN? When will be the new DACS release? Before was 1 Protoshare = 1 bitshare, Now what is this angelshares ? 50% angelshares + 50 % protoshares = bitshares ???? Please clarify.
Don't worry. Before it was 1 Protoshare -> 1 Bitshare (BEXshare) but there will be 10 times as many bitshares as there will be protoshares. So 10% was planned. Now it is 50% (1 Protoshares -> 5 Bitshares).
And the price is going down due to a temporary technicality: It is more efficient to buy Angelshares with Bitcoin so people sell their Protoshares for Bitcoin....
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No, more like 1:1.5
You're thinking of before when they made PTS allocation go from 10% to 50%
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+5% +5% +5%
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As a financial Compliance office and developer I'm currently working with several partners in regards of building a exchange that will be core for the main forex market place and compliant with trade rules and regulations. We have been working with NYSE and CME and really interested in moving into this side of the market. if you have any suggestions or wish to participate lat me know
can I ask that there would be any potential legal issues with proto-shares/bitshares? like how bitcoin is abused by criminals, bitshares can be abused too, and the govt can pick on Invictus Corp.
Pick on me they may, stop BitShares and Proto-Shares they will not. The point of this coin is to establish market demand for BitShares + other ideas of Invictus. ANYONE could implement it and the social contract would be enforced because it is all open source code :)
Jus a quick question, when bts released those who hold pts will get a bts reward. so, that means, if they have 1 pts in there hand, they are getting 1 pts and 1 bts?
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As a financial Compliance office and developer I'm currently working with several partners in regards of building a exchange that will be core for the main forex market place and compliant with trade rules and regulations. We have been working with NYSE and CME and really interested in moving into this side of the market. if you have any suggestions or wish to participate lat me know
can I ask that there would be any potential legal issues with proto-shares/bitshares? like how bitcoin is abused by criminals, bitshares can be abused too, and the govt can pick on Invictus Corp.
Pick on me they may, stop BitShares and Proto-Shares they will not. The point of this coin is to establish market demand for BitShares + other ideas of Invictus. ANYONE could implement it and the social contract would be enforced because it is all open source code :)
Jus a quick question, when bts released those who hold pts will get a bts reward. so, that means, if they have 1 pts in there hand, they are getting 1 pts and 1 bts?
Yes, except I'm fairly certain you'll actually receive 1.3 BTS for each PTS.
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As a financial Compliance office and developer I'm currently working with several partners in regards of building a exchange that will be core for the main forex market place and compliant with trade rules and regulations. We have been working with NYSE and CME and really interested in moving into this side of the market. if you have any suggestions or wish to participate lat me know
can I ask that there would be any potential legal issues with proto-shares/bitshares? like how bitcoin is abused by criminals, bitshares can be abused too, and the govt can pick on Invictus Corp.
Pick on me they may, stop BitShares and Proto-Shares they will not. The point of this coin is to establish market demand for BitShares + other ideas of Invictus. ANYONE could implement it and the social contract would be enforced because it is all open source code :)
Jus a quick question, when bts released those who hold pts will get a bts reward. so, that means, if they have 1 pts in there hand, they are getting 1 pts and 1 bts?
Yes, except I'm fairly certain you'll actually receive 1.3 BTS for each PTS.
Can anyone articulate the reason for holding PTS vs. selling for BTC and donating for AGS? (projected 1.3 BTS / PTS vs. 3.33 BTS / AGS) Am I missing something here?
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Can anyone articulate the reason for holding PTS vs. selling for BTC and donating for AGS? (projected 1.3 BTS / PTS vs. 3.33 BTS / AGS) Am I missing something here?
Because you can also buy AGS using PTS.. no need to sell for BTC unless you think the daily donations will swing in your favor.
Another strategy would be to hold PTS until after the snapshot THEN buy AGS when the volume drops. That'd give you a huge AGS position for future DAC releases.
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PTS are liquid, seem to hold their price well and offer dividends in future DACs. Bitshares are still future, are not liquid, yet offer a ground floor op in some very interesting much needed DAC products. I want in on both so I am holding my PTS and making some donations. Some are concerned about a drop in price for PTS, however, PTS holders will receive significant BTS as dividends so if PTS price drops somewhat, I am being paid BTS to hold them. Yippee! Invictus seems to be one of the few if not only firms that understands how to profit from DAC technologies. Some of the other firms sound a bit too vague and ambiguous for me. Ok boys, let's get these DACs released - the world is waiting .... can't wait to see them on MarketCap....
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.... can't wait to see them on MarketCap....
Can't wait until I see bitUSD and bitGLD in the top 50 8)
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I bought some PTS and forgot about it until I learned only today about the snapshot event. Looks like I missed the opportunity as my PTS was in an exchange (Cryptsy).
Can someone please advise/explain how I can convert/sell PTS into Bitshares now? Thank you.
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I bought some PTS and forgot about it until I learned only today about the snapshot event. Looks like I missed the opportunity as my PTS was in an exchange (Cryptsy).
Can someone please advise/explain how I can convert/sell PTS into Bitshares now? Thank you.
Since Bitshares XT is not actually available yet, there is really nothing you can do but wait. In the meantime, you might ask Cryptsy what their plans are for situations like yours. Ask them if they will send you the BTS once it's up and running.
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I bought some PTS and forgot about it until I learned only today about the snapshot event. Looks like I missed the opportunity as my PTS was in an exchange (Cryptsy).
Can someone please advise/explain how I can convert/sell PTS into Bitshares now? Thank you.
I'll trade 85 PTS that's "being converted" on BeedUI for 85 PTS in hand.
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I bought some PTS and forgot about it until I learned only today about the snapshot event. Looks like I missed the opportunity as my PTS was in an exchange (Cryptsy).
Can someone please advise/explain how I can convert/sell PTS into Bitshares now? Thank you.
I'll trade 85 PTS that's "being converted" on BeedUI for 85 PTS in hand.
I am willing to do that. Sent you PM.
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So where to buy PTS? On crypsty and then send them to my wallet ?
How profitable is to put a DigitalOcean droplet to mine ?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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So where to buy PTS? On crypsty and then send them to my wallet ?
How profitable is to put a DigitalOcean droplet to mine ?
Yes, Cryptsy or another exchange. Then send to your wallet.
It is not profitable to mine on a droplet anymore. You need lots of hardware these days.
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I bought some PTS and forgot about it until I learned only today about the snapshot event. Looks like I missed the opportunity as my PTS was in an exchange (Cryptsy).
Can someone please advise/explain how I can convert/sell PTS into Bitshares now? Thank you.
Since Bitshares XT is not actually available yet, there is really nothing you can do but wait. In the meantime, you might ask Cryptsy what their plans are for situations like yours. Ask them if they will send you the BTS once it's up and running.
Cryptsy could not do anything about that. However, when I checked my account today, the PTS I had bought initially is GONE! It is replaced by Bitshare PTS and my balance is ZERO. Have I just lost everything? How does this thing work? Help please!
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The folders with the 'wallet.dat' files changed!!