BitShares Forum

Specific Projects => Muse/SoundDAC => Topic started by: metalallen on August 25, 2014, 01:19:04 am

Title: Any latest information?
Post by: metalallen on August 25, 2014, 01:19:04 am
DNS & Vote are ready to go. Play is coming.

How about Music?  8)
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on August 25, 2014, 07:16:21 am
Not so much info about MUSIC .. not even a white paper .. :(
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: CLains on August 25, 2014, 08:30:41 pm
I'd guess they are working hard behind the scenes, doubt anyone would want to miss out on this brand.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 04, 2014, 02:56:27 am
We are!

The name will be announced in a few days.

With the landing page where you can get all the info you can read ^^

Also the white paper yes!

There is going to be a Pre-Sale announced soon too. For those that want to throw some BTC our way for dev funding and attorney fees.

10% of the DAC will still go to PTS holders of course. 10% to AGS too. Some is used to fund the project and establish partnerships, etc. And the rest is being distributed through the pre-sale. News coming soon! Within a week guys. Bear with us just another couple of days haha
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Tuck Fheman on September 04, 2014, 03:00:43 am
This was the last interview I heard on Music ...

Quote
We also get to talk with Eddie Corral and Cédric Cobban of Bitshares Music for an introduction to what’s to come as they offer us a sneak peek at a new music platform that just might give iTunes and Amazon a run for their money, or a run for their bitcoins anyway! Hop on the tour bus and join the band next time you listen to your favorite music. Bitchares Music lets you become the fifth Beatle!

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoins-gravy-18-silver-bullets-and-the-5th-beatle (http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoins-gravy-18-silver-bullets-and-the-5th-beatle)

Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: muse-umum on September 04, 2014, 05:13:07 am
We are!

The name will be announced in a few days.

With the landing page where you can get all the info you can read ^^

Also the white paper yes!

There is going to be a Pre-Sale announced soon too. For those that want to throw some BTC our way for dev funding and attorney fees.

10% of the DAC will still go to PTS holders of course. 10% to AGS too. Some is used to fund the project and establish partnerships, etc. And the rest is being distributed through the pre-sale. News coming soon! Within a week guys. Bear with us just another couple of days haha

Good to hear that.
Suggestion: Accept BTSX/BitUSD/BitBTC/BitCNY for your Pre-Sale.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: mtang on September 04, 2014, 05:24:41 am
We are!

The name will be announced in a few days.

With the landing page where you can get all the info you can read ^^

Also the white paper yes!

There is going to be a Pre-Sale announced soon too. For those that want to throw some BTC our way for dev funding and attorney fees.

10% of the DAC will still go to PTS holders of course. 10% to AGS too. Some is used to fund the project and establish partnerships, etc. And the rest is being distributed through the pre-sale. News coming soon! Within a week guys. Bear with us just another couple of days haha

Good to hear that.
Suggestion: Accept BTSX/BitUSD/BitBTC/BitCNY for your Pre-Sale.

Good idea~
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: lzr1900 on September 04, 2014, 05:52:25 am

We are!

The name will be announced in a few days.

With the landing page where you can get all the info you can read ^^

Also the white paper yes!

There is going to be a Pre-Sale announced soon too. For those that want to throw some BTC our way for dev funding and attorney fees.

10% of the DAC will still go to PTS holders of course. 10% to AGS too. Some is used to fund the project and establish partnerships, etc. And the rest is being distributed through the pre-sale. News coming soon! Within a week guys. Bear with us just another couple of days haha

Good to hear that.
Suggestion: Accept BTSX/BitUSD/BitBTC/BitCNY for your Pre-Sale.

Good idea~
good idea +5%
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: zongguan on September 04, 2014, 10:58:00 am
Why so fast :(  btsx did Not Meet my expectations
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 04, 2014, 11:00:33 am
Suggestion: Accept BTSX/BitUSD/BitBTC/BitCNY for your Pre-Sale.
But we don't want to have the same fiasco that maidsafe/mastercoin ran into .. we/you need to thing carefully about this
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: testz on September 04, 2014, 11:09:26 am
We are!

The name will be announced in a few days.

With the landing page where you can get all the info you can read ^^

Also the white paper yes!

There is going to be a Pre-Sale announced soon too. For those that want to throw some BTC our way for dev funding and attorney fees.

10% of the DAC will still go to PTS holders of course. 10% to AGS too. Some is used to fund the project and establish partnerships, etc. And the rest is being distributed through the pre-sale. News coming soon! Within a week guys. Bear with us just another couple of days haha

Good to hear that.
Suggestion: Accept BTSX/BitUSD/BitBTC/BitCNY for your Pre-Sale.

Perfect idea  :)  +5%
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 04, 2014, 11:10:51 am
We are!

The name will be announced in a few days.

With the landing page where you can get all the info you can read ^^

Also the white paper yes!

There is going to be a Pre-Sale announced soon too. For those that want to throw some BTC our way for dev funding and attorney fees.

10% of the DAC will still go to PTS holders of course. 10% to AGS too. Some is used to fund the project and establish partnerships, etc. And the rest is being distributed through the pre-sale. News coming soon! Within a week guys. Bear with us just another couple of days haha

Plan changed?

Eddie and cob announced their groundbreaking entry into the Bitshares Music family in New York today

We will have video of their presentation for you in a day or three.

He split his shares with Bitshares  50/50 which gets you

25% PTS
25% AGS

The other half honors the coin he had planned to use before meeting us in Texas - Zenithcoin

Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: robrigo on September 04, 2014, 01:53:41 pm
Why so fast :(  btsx did Not Meet my expectations


BitSharesX and the Music DAC are separate DACs with separate business models, goals, team, etc. Why wouldn't we want the team to proceed if they are ready? You should remember that BitSharesX is in beta testing atm. That's why the versions don't start with 1, they start with 0. What did you expect?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 04, 2014, 01:58:22 pm
Yes the plan changed. About 10 times. Each time coming out better with even more potential.

Zenith coin has nothing to do with this project.

We are only going to be accepting Bitcoin for the Pre-sale for now. Simple and straight forward AGS style method with a touch of Ethereum's way.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 04, 2014, 02:06:43 pm
Yes the plan changed. About 10 times. Each time coming out better with even more potential.

Zenith coin has nothing to do with this project.

We are only going to be accepting Bitcoin for the Pre-sale for now. Simple and straight forward AGS style method with a touch of Ethereum's way.
What is your legal approach here (to not get problems with the SEC)?

Who did the backend programming for BitShares Music (modifying the toolkit)?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: testz on September 04, 2014, 02:07:48 pm
Yes the plan changed. About 10 times. Each time coming out better with even more potential.

Zenith coin has nothing to do with this project.

We are only going to be accepting Bitcoin for the Pre-sale for now. Simple and straight forward AGS style method with a touch of Ethereum's way.

Will be nice if you come with site like http://www1.agsexplorer.com or maybe http://www1.agsexplorer.com will show stat for your Pre-sale.
PS: Please consider to accept PTS.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: pendragon3 on September 04, 2014, 03:16:19 pm
We are!

The name will be announced in a few days.

With the landing page where you can get all the info you can read ^^

Also the white paper yes!

There is going to be a Pre-Sale announced soon too. For those that want to throw some BTC our way for dev funding and attorney fees.

10% of the DAC will still go to PTS holders of course. 10% to AGS too. Some is used to fund the project and establish partnerships, etc. And the rest is being distributed through the pre-sale. News coming soon! Within a week guys. Bear with us just another couple of days haha

Plan changed?

Eddie and cob announced their groundbreaking entry into the Bitshares Music family in New York today

We will have video of their presentation for you in a day or three.

He split his shares with Bitshares  50/50 which gets you

25% PTS
25% AGS

The other half honors the coin he had planned to use before meeting us in Texas - Zenithcoin


Hopefully cob meant at least 10% for AGS and PTS. Otherwise that's not good for initial donors and stakeholders  :(
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: oco101 on September 04, 2014, 03:19:01 pm
We are!

The name will be announced in a few days.

With the landing page where you can get all the info you can read ^^

Also the white paper yes!

There is going to be a Pre-Sale announced soon too. For those that want to throw some BTC our way for dev funding and attorney fees.

10% of the DAC will still go to PTS holders of course. 10% to AGS too. Some is used to fund the project and establish partnerships, etc. And the rest is being distributed through the pre-sale. News coming soon! Within a week guys. Bear with us just another couple of days haha

Plan changed?

Eddie and cob announced their groundbreaking entry into the Bitshares Music family in New York today

We will have video of their presentation for you in a day or three.

He split his shares with Bitshares  50/50 which gets you

25% PTS
25% AGS

The other half honors the coin he had planned to use before meeting us in Texas - Zenithcoin


Hopefully cob meant at least 10% for AGS and PTS. Otherwise that's not good for initial donors and stakeholders  :(

10% for AGS and PTS respects the social contract so it is good, for everybody.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: pendragon3 on September 04, 2014, 03:25:31 pm
Yes the plan changed. About 10 times. Each time coming out better with even more potential.

Zenith coin has nothing to do with this project.

We are only going to be accepting Bitcoin for the Pre-sale for now. Simple and straight forward AGS style method with a touch of Ethereum's way.

Hi cob

Any chance you guys will reconsider the allocation to PTS and AGS to be 15% or 20%? Please? I think 10% wouldn't really be fair and will disappoint a lot of people. Many people donated and invested thinking that Bitshares Music would be one of the most important core Invictus DACs, like Bitsharss DNS which is giving at least 20% to each, probably significantly more depending on dilution.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: liondani on September 04, 2014, 03:38:47 pm
10% for AGS and PTS respects the social contract so it is good, for everybody.

It "respects" it but why should anybody give everytime the minimum he can?

Hope it ends with a greater % ...
I realy hope cob don't use his smartphone
before tipping his Server at a Restaurant...  :P

PS but if he did, here is a great site: http://www.wikihow.com/Tip-Your-Server-at-a-Restaurant


Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 04, 2014, 03:41:31 pm
Any chance you guys will reconsider the allocation to PTS and AGS to be 15% or 20%? Please? I think 10% wouldn't really be fair and will disappoint a lot of people. Many people donated and invested thinking that Bitshares Music would be one of the most important core Invictus DACs, like Bitsharss DNS which is giving at least 20% to each, probably significantly more depending on dilution.
... once again ... invictus simply does not have a product besides the toolkit ... they do not have a 'core DAC' ... DACs are launched by independent startups
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Chuckone on September 04, 2014, 03:51:53 pm
The presented distribution is the minimum, and I believe it will not satisfy most of AGS/PTS holders, as we're used to higher rewards. But I do understand though that if the launch of the new DAC requires a lot of fresh money, a pre-sale is required and if most of the coins are already promised to AGS/PTS holders, it will hinder the capacity of the DAC to fund itself for the startup.

Is 10%/10% really the maximum/optimal cob can spare for AGS/PTS holder? Only he can answer that.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: pendragon3 on September 04, 2014, 03:56:52 pm
Any chance you guys will reconsider the allocation to PTS and AGS to be 15% or 20%? Please? I think 10% wouldn't really be fair and will disappoint a lot of people. Many people donated and invested thinking that Bitshares Music would be one of the most important core Invictus DACs, like Bitsharss DNS which is giving at least 20% to each, probably significantly more depending on dilution.
... once again ... invictus simply does not have a product besides the toolkit ... they do not have a 'core DAC' ... DACs are launched by independent startups

But a few DACs are "core" in the sense that since virtually the beginning they were touted prominently and featured by 3I in newsletters to donors, videos, and such.

These four or five DACs were the initial selling point for AGS and PTS ones that got foundational design help and publicity from devs and the community. I don't think they are in the same category as a newer third-party DAC that simply borrows the BitShares toolkit software.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 04, 2014, 09:07:02 pm
10% for AGS and PTS respects the social contract so it is good, for everybody.

It "respects" it but why should anybody give everytime the minimum he can?

Hope it ends with a greater % ...
I realy hope cob don't use his smartphone
before tipping his Server at a Restaurant...  :P

PS but if he did, here is a great site: http://www.wikihow.com/Tip-Your-Server-at-a-Restaurant
+5%
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 04, 2014, 09:32:24 pm
Think of it this way.
Would you rather have 20% of a crapcoin or 10% of a billion dollar DAC?

In order for this to be a serious project we have to pay for QUALITY developers, expert legal counsel and of course, marketing. The Pre-Sale is what opens up the gates to the big boy world.

Sure we can just launch a DAC with NONE of that and give it all to you, here you go, take 90% of the worthless fork!

I guarantee you that with the funds amassed by the pre-sale, we will be in a position to launch a blockchain that actually has value.

So the options are not 10% of gold or 20% of gold. where we decided to give as little as possible.
The real world options are:
Do we give 20% of a valueless, plain ol altcoin or do we use 10% to make the final 10% into gold?

These are the real world options, take your pic.

Does this make sense?

Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 04, 2014, 09:35:36 pm
Does this make sense?
*confirmed* and *agreed*

Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: liondani on September 04, 2014, 10:11:27 pm
Think of it this way.
Would you rather have 20% of a crapcoin or 10% of a billion dollar DAC?

If your numbers are right it's better to give us 5%
for a trillion dollar DAC...   :o
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: oco101 on September 05, 2014, 04:47:12 am
Think of it this way.
Would you rather have 20% of a crapcoin or 10% of a billion dollar DAC?

In order for this to be a serious project we have to pay for QUALITY developers, expert legal counsel and of course, marketing. The Pre-Sale is what opens up the gates to the big boy world.

Sure we can just launch a DAC with NONE of that and give it all to you, here you go, take 90% of the worthless fork!

I guarantee you that with the funds amassed by the pre-sale, we will be in a position to launch a blockchain that actually has value.

So the options are not 10% of gold or 20% of gold. where we decided to give as little as possible.
The real world options are:
Do we give 20% of a valueless, plain ol altcoin or do we use 10% to make the final 10% into gold?

These are the real world options, take your pic.

Does this make sense?

Yup a lot of sense in there !!!! +1
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: pendragon3 on September 05, 2014, 04:47:31 am
Think of it this way.
Would you rather have 20% of a crapcoin or 10% of a billion dollar DAC?

In order for this to be a serious project we have to pay for QUALITY developers, expert legal counsel and of course, marketing. The Pre-Sale is what opens up the gates to the big boy world.

Sure we can just launch a DAC with NONE of that and give it all to you, here you go, take 90% of the worthless fork!

I guarantee you that with the funds amassed by the pre-sale, we will be in a position to launch a blockchain that actually has value.

So the options are not 10% of gold or 20% of gold. where we decided to give as little as possible.
The real world options are:
Do we give 20% of a valueless, plain ol altcoin or do we use 10% to make the final 10% into gold?

These are the real world options, take your pic.

Does this make sense?


I hear you and agree that it's critical to have a successful fundraising.

But something to consider is whether allocating 10% only to PTS/AGS would really maximize the pre-sale. I think the people most likely to participate as donors/investors and to drum up support for the fundraising are the PTS and AGS holders themselves. These early donors/investors are the ones who best understand the potential of this music DAC, who are familiar with the BitShares approach, and who are proven donors.

In my view, going from an earlier stated 25% to 10% could piss off some PTS and AGS holders and maybe lead to lower funding than you could get by keeping them reasonably happy. For example, 15% for each would be far better than 10% (50% higher amount), but it  would only reduce the rest of the allocation from 80% to 70%. Is that extra 10% really going to make a big difference for the pre-sale? I can see how losing the goodwill of PTS, AGS holders could easly cost more than 10% of fundraising.



Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cygnify on September 05, 2014, 05:17:22 am
I hear you and agree that it's critical to have a successful fundraising.

But something to consider is whether allocating 10% only to PTS/AGS would really maximize the pre-sale. I think the people most likely to participate as donors/investors and to drum up support for the fundraising are the PTS and AGS holders themselves. These early donors/investors are the ones who best understand the potential of this music DAC, who are familiar with the BitShares approach, and who are proven donors.

In my view, going from an earlier stated 25% to 10% could piss off some PTS and AGS holders and maybe lead to lower funding than you could get by keeping them reasonably happy. For example, 15% for each would be far better than 10% (50% higher amount), but it  would only reduce the rest of the allocation from 80% to 70%. Is that extra 10% really going to make a big difference for the pre-sale? I can see how losing the goodwill of PTS, AGS holders could easly cost more than 10% of fundraising.

 +5%
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: chryspano on September 05, 2014, 05:29:33 am
Think of it this way.
Would you rather have 20% of a crapcoin or 10% of a billion dollar DAC?

In order for this to be a serious project we have to pay for QUALITY developers, expert legal counsel and of course, marketing. The Pre-Sale is what opens up the gates to the big boy world.

Sure we can just launch a DAC with NONE of that and give it all to you, here you go, take 90% of the worthless fork!

I guarantee you that with the funds amassed by the pre-sale, we will be in a position to launch a blockchain that actually has value.

So the options are not 10% of gold or 20% of gold. where we decided to give as little as possible.
The real world options are:
Do we give 20% of a valueless, plain ol altcoin or do we use 10% to make the final 10% into gold?

These are the real world options, take your pic.

Does this make sense?

 +5% +5% +5%
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: gamey on September 05, 2014, 05:38:20 am

Given that they are going outside to get funding, it really only makes sense that PTS/AGS is diluted.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 05, 2014, 09:23:36 am
Yes the plan changed. About 10 times. Each time coming out better with even more potential.

Zenith coin has nothing to do with this project.

We are only going to be accepting Bitcoin for the Pre-sale for now. Simple and straight forward AGS style method with a touch of Ethereum's way.
What is your legal approach here (to not get problems with the SEC)?

Who did the backend programming for BitShares Music (modifying the toolkit)?

push push :)
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 06, 2014, 07:57:50 pm
We are doing a software pre-sale à la ethereum.
the units allow you to use the network once it is launched.

The units are not equity in a corporation, nor do they promise to pay out dividends.

It's a limited supply (price/value dictated by supply and demand) token that allows you to use a peer 2 peer network.


Bitsapphire are developing the front end website. And the DAC itself will be a copy of BitSharesX.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 07, 2014, 03:47:54 pm
whats this?
http://peertracks.com/
google cache:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZBBqWQ7N5SQJ:peertracks.com/+&cd=21&hl=sv&ct=clnk&gl=se

edit://
google cache tells some info :)
facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/PeerTracks
twitter:
https://twitter.com/PeerTracks

Gotcha

btw .. thats me .. notice my avatar? @fuzz: guess what instrument I can play :)
(http://i.imgur.com/k4rlWtD.png)
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: robrigo on September 07, 2014, 03:55:05 pm
whats this?
http://peertracks.com/
google cache:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZBBqWQ7N5SQJ:peertracks.com/+&cd=21&hl=sv&ct=clnk&gl=se

edit://
google cache tells some info :)
facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/PeerTracks
twitter:
https://twitter.com/PeerTracks

Gotcha

btw .. thats me .. notice my avatar? @fuzz: guess what instrument I can play :)
(http://i.imgur.com/k4rlWtD.png)

Haha... nice sleuthing!
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: hadrian on September 07, 2014, 06:24:01 pm
whats this?
http://peertracks.com/


xeroc, I'm curious. How did you find this? Did you simply manage to guess the name? If you used other methods I'd love to know what you did.
 :o
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 07, 2014, 07:05:14 pm
whats this?
http://peertracks.com/


xeroc, I'm curious. How did you find this? Did you simply manage to guess the name? If you used other methods I'd love to know what you did.
 :o
Was an easy one .. i used google with

BitShares MUSIC "Eddie Corral"

first or second page had it listed
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 07, 2014, 07:06:14 pm
Pre-sale terms are online now too
http://peertracks.com/pre-sale.html

Quote
PeerTracks will be launching a blockchain of it’s own soon: the BitShares Music blockchain. It’s unit is the Note


Quote
    10% of all Notes are going to the holders of BitShares PTS.
    10% to those that donated to the BitShares AGS address.
    45% to those that purchase Notes in our Pre-Sale
    5% to our development team (Bitsapphire)
    5% to the founders
    25% to the PeerTracks corporation
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: graffenwalder on September 07, 2014, 07:19:02 pm
I wonder how the 5% for the founders will go down in the crypto world.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 07, 2014, 07:26:11 pm
:(  and suddenly the page is offline again ... let's wait :)
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on September 07, 2014, 07:33:29 pm
I had the chance to read it and I can tell you.. only top features, DPOS etc. u name it, paradise I'm coming, , long live the genesis!!
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: hadrian on September 07, 2014, 08:04:48 pm
cob - Now that the name and website have been revealed, should we have a topic for feedback/help/ideas etc?

(I've spotted a typo. Might be too early for this sort of stuff, but I'm paranoid about it persisting. Therefore I'm mentioning it! On presale page, "PeerTracks in marketed towards" should say "is".)
edit: Also "The can also raise funds" should say "they".
"a name will suffices" should say "suffice"
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: onceuponatime on September 07, 2014, 08:23:41 pm
:(  and suddenly the page is offline again ... let's wait :)

It's still up for me.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on September 07, 2014, 08:30:22 pm
Nothing, location: Europe
Someone make a copy  :P
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: sumantso on September 07, 2014, 09:17:07 pm
I donated a fair bit after 28 Feb, and also bought PTS as Stan and co were touting the 'Core DACs' which would be delivered by Invictus or teams funded/ closely related to Invictus. Now it seems I would have been better off holding onto that BTC and donating individually.

Bitshares Me better make it worthwhile for us.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 07, 2014, 09:46:56 pm
I donated a fair bit after 28 Feb, and also bought PTS as Stan and co were touting the 'Core DACs' which would be delivered by Invictus or teams funded/ closely related to Invictus. Now it seems I would have been better off holding onto that BTC and donating individually.

Bitshares Me better make it worthwhile for us.
That might be but isn't clear yet. The presale could be very big and others are Dacs are doing to honor AGS/PTS too.

But I'd also be happy with something that is more close to the originally announced 50/50 (50% cob, eddie and developement fund; and 25% to PTS and 25% to AGS). Got to be grateful for what you get but something more close to 50/50 than 20/80 would be reasonable.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: jaran on September 07, 2014, 11:16:43 pm
"Notes are not equity in a corporation, they are not stock, they will not entitle anyone to dividends in the PeerTracks company, in fact they have no direct relation to the PeerTracks corporation. These are two separate, independent entities. PeerTracks uses the BitShares Music blockchain and adds value to the network just as Bitpay uses the Bitcoin blockchain and adds value to that. One does not own the other....When you send funds to our Bitcoin address, you are merely purchasing tokens that will enable you to use the BitShares Music blockchain when it launches."

I dont understand this.  I thought the whole point of DAC's is there is no true corporation behind the scenes and the shareholders get the profits from the DAC....

While i love the idea of the music DAC i would prefer to own a peice of the DAC not  another altcoin aka token.

This DAC seems to not be one so what am I missing? 


 
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: robrigo on September 07, 2014, 11:33:35 pm
"Notes are not equity in a corporation, they are not stock, they will not entitle anyone to dividends in the PeerTracks company, in fact they have no direct relation to the PeerTracks corporation. These are two separate, independent entities. PeerTracks uses the BitShares Music blockchain and adds value to the network just as Bitpay uses the Bitcoin blockchain and adds value to that. One does not own the other....When you send funds to our Bitcoin address, you are merely purchasing tokens that will enable you to use the BitShares Music blockchain when it launches."

I dont understand this.  I thought the whole point of DAC's is there is no true corporation behind the scenes and the shareholders get the profits from the DAC....

While i love the idea of the music DAC i would prefer to own a peice of the DAC not  another altcoin aka token.

This DAC seems to not be one so what am I missing?

I interpret this as PeerTracks being a corporation to facilitate mass market adoption of the BitShares Music DAC. Maybe a similar role to DACSunLimited with BitSharesX? Although I don't know that the developers will be hired directly by PeerTracks or what; I assume not since they are separate parts of the initial allocation. The DAC still has a decentralized life of it's own and the NOTE is still a tradable commodity / token (like BTSX). As the DAC becomes more popular and provides a valuable service, NOTEs go up in value. PeerTracks will exist to make the DAC popular, educate people about it, maybe drive creation of tools to make the DAC user friendly for the average consumer, etc.

Those are just my musings though; not sure what the plan really is.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Stan on September 07, 2014, 11:39:19 pm
Its all about evolving industry best practices. 
Much has been learned about what a DAC needs to be successful legally and financially.

It makes a lot of sense to launch an autonomous unmanned business and then build an industry of manned businesses around it.  DACs need to be engineered to pay for the human support they will need to thrive.

We all want to own DACs that will succeed and owning 20% of a successful DAC is better than 100% of an over-constrained DAC.  And the community had to evolve from thinking like currency investors to thinking like business investors.

Choosing the right metaphor also turns out to be very important:

http://bitshares.org/a-bitrose-by-any-other-name/

All of these things are the duty of each DAC developer and will vary with each business model.
This is part of development just as much as writing code.
In fact, very little code needs to be written with DACs that use the BitShares Toolkit
so MOST of a developer's job is getting the non-software business decisions right.

Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: jaran on September 07, 2014, 11:51:33 pm


I interpret this as PeerTracks being a corporation to facilitate mass market adoption of the BitShares Music DAC. Maybe a similar role to DACSunLimited with BitSharesX? Although I don't know that the developers will be hired directly by PeerTracks or what; I assume not since they are separate parts of the initial allocation. The DAC still has a decentralized life of it's own and the NOTE is still a tradable commodity / token (like BTSX). As the DAC becomes more popular and provides a valuable service, NOTEs go up in value. PeerTracks will exist to make the DAC popular, educate people about it, maybe drive creation of tools to make the DAC user friendly for the average consumer, etc.

Those are just my musings though; not sure what the plan really is.

I understand the need for a company or group of people to be hired by the DAC.  Obviously there are lots of dev cost etc.  I guess i just interperted it to mean that shareholders dont get a percent of the sales. 

So my question should be i guess
 
If a song is sold for $.99 with a $.01 transaction fee what percent after that goes to the artist and what goes to the DAC?  Then does the DAC pay PeerTracks LLC for services such as running the website from its profit from sales? Or is it the other way around where PeerTracks LLC is getting the profit from the sale at the the website and all that is going to the DAC is a $.01 burn in transaction fees?



Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: muse-umum on September 08, 2014, 12:59:17 am
Quote
10% of all Notes are going to the holders of BitShares PTS.
10% to those that donated to the BitShares AGS address.
45% to those that purchase Notes in our Pre-Sale
5% to our development team (Bitsapphire)
5% to the founders
25% to the PeerTracks corporation

How does the delegates get paid?

Quote
This is what you will be spending/earning on PeerTracks. User’s will convert their funds (USD, Euro, CAD, Peso, etc) into a form that is readable by the Bitshares Music Blockchain: BitUSD. Blockchains have very low transaction fees compared to banking institutions and credit card companies or even paypal. This allows for micro transactions which in turn allows the free flow of funds from fan to artist without anyone in the middle taking a huge cut.

So the BitUSD mentioned here is from Music rather than X, right?
Are you sure the market peg will work?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: fuzzy on September 08, 2014, 12:59:33 am
Quote
"It has price stabilityThat’s right. The holy grail for many: a crypto-currency without volatility. The Notes themselves are just like any other crypto-token, they can fluctuate… wildly. Market pegged bitassets on the other hand will not. This means that customers that come to the PeerTracks website, people that are here to shop for music not to day trade, can now benefit from all the advantages crypto-currencies have to offer, without being exposed to the volatility. When they fund their account with 20 USD of fiat, they get 20 BitUSD. This is what they spend while shopping for music. They can leave the funds in their wallet for months, come back, and it will still be there, unchanged, and yet they still benefit from the low transaction fees and all the other benefits that come with crypto."

Incorrect.  If they leave their money in the account for months...and come back, they will have gained a % of interest just for holding bitUSD :)
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: oco101 on September 08, 2014, 01:53:43 am
 I don't get it :

Quote
An artistcoin’s value is determined by supply and demand. PeerTracks has a system in place that ties the sale of content (music) to supply and demand. Meaning the more music the artist sells on the website, the more his artistcoin should be worth.

Say you find an artist early on, before he is popular, you like his music and decide to buy his coin. If that artist goes mainstream and starts selling music on PeerTracks, his artistcoins should each be worth more now then when you purchased them.

I don't understand why artistcoin it is worth more if is is successful ? So ok I  buy  the artistcoin because you want to help fund the artist career. Now I have the coin so what ? What's  the artiscoin give me back ?  Why somebody would  want to buy it from me  ? what are his incentives ?
This part  is pretty  essential  on peertraks system and at first glance it is not clear at all why I artistcoin has value.
Sorry if the information is there and i missed it.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 03:36:04 am
Xeroc.. I don't know how old you are.. but maybe you can guess what line comes with this pic:

(http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tv/image/1367/98/1367982734610.jpg)

And Hadrian, there are already quite a few corrections to be made in the site. Just waiting on our main man to get better.

But if you insist! I would LOVE to have an army of spell checkers, typo spotters, sentence reformulators, gramatical wizArdz to take a look and take note of everything.

Suggestions + criticism is welcomed here.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 03:44:49 am
"Notes are not equity in a corporation, they are not stock, they will not entitle anyone to dividends in the PeerTracks company, in fact they have no direct relation to the PeerTracks corporation. These are two separate, independent entities. PeerTracks uses the BitShares Music blockchain and adds value to the network just as Bitpay uses the Bitcoin blockchain and adds value to that. One does not own the other....When you send funds to our Bitcoin address, you are merely purchasing tokens that will enable you to use the BitShares Music blockchain when it launches."

I dont understand this.  I thought the whole point of DAC's is there is no true corporation behind the scenes and the shareholders get the profits from the DAC....

While i love the idea of the music DAC i would prefer to own a peice of the DAC not  another altcoin aka token.

This DAC seems to not be one so what am I missing?

The DAC is Bitshares Music.
It's unit is the Note.

10% of all Notes are going to PTS people and another 10% is going the AGS people.

So far so good?

Now BitShares is an independent entity that matches bids, asks, tracks who has what, etc etc. I'm sure you know this already.

PTS and AGS people are getting Notes, meaning they are getting units of this Decentralized Autonomous Company.


Peertracks is a corporation. This corporation is building a website that will make it possible for artists to create their own profile, upload their music, share stuff to facebook and twitter, create their own coin if they wish, sell it etc. All in a user friendly way. User Experience comes first. We are going for the masses. The user will not even know he is using a DAC on the backend.

If peertracks goes belly up, Bitshares music is still there, alive and kicking.

If Bitpay goes belly up, Bitcoin is still alive and kicking. Delegates/miners are not affected by a company using the blockchain closing it's doors.

Does this make sense?

PeerTracks is what is launching the BitShares Music Blockchain, and we are building a website/business that will bring this new technology to tweens, teens, and adults.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 03:53:07 am
Quote
10% of all Notes are going to the holders of BitShares PTS.
10% to those that donated to the BitShares AGS address.
45% to those that purchase Notes in our Pre-Sale
5% to our development team (Bitsapphire)
5% to the founders
25% to the PeerTracks corporation

How does the delegates get paid

The delegate gets paid exactly like in BitSharesX. Genesis block issuance is irrelevant to who gets voted in as delegates.
Peertracks doesn't control the blockchain. It's a DAC! Peertracks won't have control over delegate votes, or what they do with their earned transaction fees.



Quote
So the BitUSD mentioned here is from Music rather than X, right?
Are you sure the market peg will work?

Yeah BitUSD from the Music blockchain.
No we are not sure it will work. BitSharesX is what's doing the testing right now. Still experimental! Once BitSharesX shows the BitAssets are effectively pegged, then we will launch using BitSharesX as a base tech. If the peg does not work, then it's back to volatility town. We will have to figure out another way to save the non-day-traders from crypto volatility.

For now, we are waiting on BitUSD to have a go at the markets.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 04:14:47 am

So my question should be i guess
 
If a song is sold for $.99 with a $.01 transaction fee what percent after that goes to the artist and what goes to the DAC?  Then does the DAC pay PeerTracks LLC for services such as running the website from its profit from sales? Or is it the other way around where PeerTracks LLC is getting the profit from the sale at the the website and all that is going to the DAC is a $.01 burn in transaction fees?

keep in mind these are fictitious %s and #s for the sake of simplicity

If a song sells for 1 BitUSD (FROM the PeerTracks website), a couple of things happen.

If the artist selling the song does NOT have an artistcoin out there, this is what happens.
0.95 BitUSD goes to the artist's wallet.
0.04 BitUSD goes to PeerTracks for bandwidth cost and the likes (costs will need to be calculated closer to launch once less variables are present)
0.whatever the transaction fee is on the blockchain is going to be the well... transaction fee. Which is what gets burned and "returned" to the shareholders, just like in BitSharesX

Now if the person selling the song DOES have an artistcoin out there (meaning he created his own token and sold it to his fans)
Things are different. The artist will not be getting 0.95 BitUSD, he will be getting 0.95 MINUS what going towards his coinholders. I will go into this later.

One of the features we are exploring as far as transaction fee is setting a higher transaction fee for any transfer except artistcoins.
This means the DAC shareholders would profit more from BitUSD transfers (music sales) but the fees would stay very low when Jimmy and timmy are exchanging Snoopcoin for One Direction coin in the schoolyard on their smartphones.

We want to create 10000 dogecoin like economies each revolving around band/singer it's fandom and it's fan club. Keeping low token transfer fees would help that, where we really want to charge off of music sales to pay for service costs + network costs, etc.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 04:20:29 am
I don't get it :

Quote
An artistcoin’s value is determined by supply and demand. PeerTracks has a system in place that ties the sale of content (music) to supply and demand. Meaning the more music the artist sells on the website, the more his artistcoin should be worth.

Say you find an artist early on, before he is popular, you like his music and decide to buy his coin. If that artist goes mainstream and starts selling music on PeerTracks, his artistcoins should each be worth more now then when you purchased them.

I don't understand why artistcoin it is worth more if is is successful ? So ok I  buy  the artistcoin because you want to help fund the artist career. Now I have the coin so what ? What's  the artiscoin give me back ?  Why somebody would  want to buy it from me  ? what are his incentives ?
This part  is pretty  essential  on peertraks system and at first glance it is not clear at all why I artistcoin has value.
Sorry if the information is there and i missed it.

Yes that is an excellent question! And no you did not miss it. We have a mechanism in places that ties the value of the artistcoin with the sale of that artists music. We are being very non-crypto right now and keeping the secret sauce secret until we are ready to launch our pre-sale. (:

Meaning as soon as we have definite dates, we will spill the beans and explain how it works. And why people will WANT to hold artistcoins.

For now, just know that it'll be announced soon enough. Sorry about that! We are trying to guarantee our first mover advantage in the crypto music space lol
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: jaran on September 08, 2014, 04:31:37 am
thanks for answering both my post.  That cleared it up for me.

Those were the answers i was hoping for! :)
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 08, 2014, 07:19:27 am
Xeroc.. I don't know how old you are.. but maybe you can guess what line comes with this pic:

Now you are blaming ME that i played YOUR game? Are are serious?
While we wait, why not play the guessing game. Oh and the site is up, although not all content is up to date, so if you find it, keep that in mind ^^

I'd love to support your platform .. but why threaten me? because I 'leaked' your domain? and google has it cached? for real?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 08, 2014, 12:45:20 pm

So my question should be i guess
 
If a song is sold for $.99 with a $.01 transaction fee what percent after that goes to the artist and what goes to the DAC?  Then does the DAC pay PeerTracks LLC for services such as running the website from its profit from sales? Or is it the other way around where PeerTracks LLC is getting the profit from the sale at the the website and all that is going to the DAC is a $.01 burn in transaction fees?

keep in mind these are fictitious %s and #s for the sake of simplicity

If a song sells for 1 BitUSD (FROM the PeerTracks website), a couple of things happen.

If the artist selling the song does NOT have an artistcoin out there, this is what happens.
0.95 BitUSD goes to the artist's wallet.
0.04 BitUSD goes to PeerTracks for bandwidth cost and the likes (costs will need to be calculated closer to launch once less variables are present)
0.whatever the transaction fee is on the blockchain is going to be the well... transaction fee. Which is what gets burned and "returned" to the shareholders, just like in BitSharesX

Now if the person selling the song DOES have an artistcoin out there (meaning he created his own token and sold it to his fans)
Things are different. The artist will not be getting 0.95 BitUSD, he will be getting 0.95 MINUS what going towards his coinholders. I will go into this later.

One of the features we are exploring as far as transaction fee is setting a higher transaction fee for any transfer except artistcoins.
This means the DAC shareholders would profit more from BitUSD transfers (music sales) but the fees would stay very low when Jimmy and timmy are exchanging Snoopcoin for One Direction coin in the schoolyard on their smartphones.

We want to create 10000 dogecoin like economies each revolving around band/singer it's fandom and it's fan club. Keeping low token transfer fees would help that, where we really want to charge off of music sales to pay for service costs + network costs, etc.
So do shareholders of the BitShares Music DAC only earn on burned tx fees or do the BitSharesMusicShares also get value from something else (e.g. because you can only buy Artistcoins with BitSharesMusicShares  or BitSharesMusicShares-holders get a percantage (the 0.04 cents?) from the ArtistShares)?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 03:17:51 pm
Xeroc.. I don't know how old you are.. but maybe you can guess what line comes with this pic:

Now you are blaming ME that i played YOUR game? Are are serious?
While we wait, why not play the guessing game. Oh and the site is up, although not all content is up to date, so if you find it, keep that in mind ^^

I'd love to support your platform .. but why threaten me? because I 'leaked' your domain? and google has it cached? for real?

Xeroc... the line was  "Clever girl"

Far from a threat lol.  I guess you are a bit too young for the 1993 reference! my bad ^^

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/clever-girl

Quote
“Clever Girl” is a catchphrase that can be used to express respect or admiration for something has demonstrated substantial intelligence.


Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 08, 2014, 03:24:53 pm
Xeroc.. I don't know how old you are.. but maybe you can guess what line comes with this pic:

Now you are blaming ME that i played YOUR game? Are are serious?
While we wait, why not play the guessing game. Oh and the site is up, although not all content is up to date, so if you find it, keep that in mind ^^

I'd love to support your platform .. but why threaten me? because I 'leaked' your domain? and google has it cached? for real?

Xeroc... the line was  "Clever girl"

Far from a threat lol.  I guess you are a bit too young for the 1993 reference! my bad ^^

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/clever-girl

Quote
“Clever Girl” is a catchphrase that can be used to express respect or admiration for something has demonstrated substantial intelligence.

woops .. than it TOTALLY misunderstood your reference ... and apologize for my harsh response .. i am sorry .. really
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 03:29:23 pm

So my question should be i guess
 
If a song is sold for $.99 with a $.01 transaction fee what percent after that goes to the artist and what goes to the DAC?  Then does the DAC pay PeerTracks LLC for services such as running the website from its profit from sales? Or is it the other way around where PeerTracks LLC is getting the profit from the sale at the the website and all that is going to the DAC is a $.01 burn in transaction fees?

keep in mind these are fictitious %s and #s for the sake of simplicity

If a song sells for 1 BitUSD (FROM the PeerTracks website), a couple of things happen.

If the artist selling the song does NOT have an artistcoin out there, this is what happens.
0.95 BitUSD goes to the artist's wallet.
0.04 BitUSD goes to PeerTracks for bandwidth cost and the likes (costs will need to be calculated closer to launch once less variables are present)
0.whatever the transaction fee is on the blockchain is going to be the well... transaction fee. Which is what gets burned and "returned" to the shareholders, just like in BitSharesX

Now if the person selling the song DOES have an artistcoin out there (meaning he created his own token and sold it to his fans)
Things are different. The artist will not be getting 0.95 BitUSD, he will be getting 0.95 MINUS what going towards his coinholders. I will go into this later.

One of the features we are exploring as far as transaction fee is setting a higher transaction fee for any transfer except artistcoins.
This means the DAC shareholders would profit more from BitUSD transfers (music sales) but the fees would stay very low when Jimmy and timmy are exchanging Snoopcoin for One Direction coin in the schoolyard on their smartphones.

We want to create 10000 dogecoin like economies each revolving around band/singer it's fandom and it's fan club. Keeping low token transfer fees would help that, where we really want to charge off of music sales to pay for service costs + network costs, etc.
So do shareholders of the BitShares Music DAC only earn on burned tx fees or do the BitSharesMusicShares also get value from something else (e.g. because you can only buy Artistcoins with BitSharesMusicShares  or BitSharesMusicShares-holders get a percantage (the 0.04 cents?) from the ArtistShares)?


Note holders would earn from burned tx fees, correct.
What we are planning on doing is making the tx fees more expensive for bitUSD since that's the type of transaction that's used in the sale of music.

So people trading around artistcoins can do so very cheaply. people trading around notes as well. The only time a large transaction fee appears is when someone buys music since it's not done in notes, or artistcoins, it's done in BitUSD.

Clear?

So Note holders would make money off of every tx fee, some tx fees are larger than others.

This is all for Note holders.

Now if you are holding say 300 guitarguy coins, and his music starts selling on the peertracks website, then you will see the value of those coins go up.
These are 2 independent things.

I could have 100 Notes and 400 artistcoins. I could have 0 notes and 10000 artistcoins, I could have 25 notes and 0 artistcoins. It all depends if you wanna play the music market or just take fees from being part owner of the DAC or if you want to do both!

If you do both, say you have 1% off all Notes in existence, then you are making 1% off all (non-delegate) tx fees. And if you picked the right artistcoins, you can earn capital gains from that too.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 03:30:37 pm
Xeroc.. I don't know how old you are.. but maybe you can guess what line comes with this pic:

Now you are blaming ME that i played YOUR game? Are are serious?
While we wait, why not play the guessing game. Oh and the site is up, although not all content is up to date, so if you find it, keep that in mind ^^

I'd love to support your platform .. but why threaten me? because I 'leaked' your domain? and google has it cached? for real?

Xeroc... the line was  "Clever girl"

Far from a threat lol.  I guess you are a bit too young for the 1993 reference! my bad ^^

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/clever-girl

Quote
“Clever Girl” is a catchphrase that can be used to express respect or admiration for something has demonstrated substantial intelligence.

woops .. than it TOTALLY misunderstood your reference ... and apologize for my harsh response .. i am sorry .. really

Don't sweat it. I startled you with a giant velociraptor head! Understandable reaction haha
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 08, 2014, 04:09:04 pm

So my question should be i guess
 
If a song is sold for $.99 with a $.01 transaction fee what percent after that goes to the artist and what goes to the DAC?  Then does the DAC pay PeerTracks LLC for services such as running the website from its profit from sales? Or is it the other way around where PeerTracks LLC is getting the profit from the sale at the the website and all that is going to the DAC is a $.01 burn in transaction fees?

keep in mind these are fictitious %s and #s for the sake of simplicity

If a song sells for 1 BitUSD (FROM the PeerTracks website), a couple of things happen.

If the artist selling the song does NOT have an artistcoin out there, this is what happens.
0.95 BitUSD goes to the artist's wallet.
0.04 BitUSD goes to PeerTracks for bandwidth cost and the likes (costs will need to be calculated closer to launch once less variables are present)
0.whatever the transaction fee is on the blockchain is going to be the well... transaction fee. Which is what gets burned and "returned" to the shareholders, just like in BitSharesX

Now if the person selling the song DOES have an artistcoin out there (meaning he created his own token and sold it to his fans)
Things are different. The artist will not be getting 0.95 BitUSD, he will be getting 0.95 MINUS what going towards his coinholders. I will go into this later.

One of the features we are exploring as far as transaction fee is setting a higher transaction fee for any transfer except artistcoins.
This means the DAC shareholders would profit more from BitUSD transfers (music sales) but the fees would stay very low when Jimmy and timmy are exchanging Snoopcoin for One Direction coin in the schoolyard on their smartphones.

We want to create 10000 dogecoin like economies each revolving around band/singer it's fandom and it's fan club. Keeping low token transfer fees would help that, where we really want to charge off of music sales to pay for service costs + network costs, etc.
So do shareholders of the BitShares Music DAC only earn on burned tx fees or do the BitSharesMusicShares also get value from something else (e.g. because you can only buy Artistcoins with BitSharesMusicShares  or BitSharesMusicShares-holders get a percantage (the 0.04 cents?) from the ArtistShares)?


Note holders would earn from burned tx fees, correct.
What we are planning on doing is making the tx fees more expensive for bitUSD since that's the type of transaction that's used in the sale of music.

So people trading around artistcoins can do so very cheaply. people trading around notes as well. The only time a large transaction fee appears is when someone buys music since it's not done in notes, or artistcoins, it's done in BitUSD.

Clear?

So Note holders would make money off of every tx fee, some tx fees are larger than others.

This is all for Note holders.

Now if you are holding say 300 guitarguy coins, and his music starts selling on the peertracks website, then you will see the value of those coins go up.
These are 2 independent things.

I could have 100 Notes and 400 artistcoins. I could have 0 notes and 10000 artistcoins, I could have 25 notes and 0 artistcoins. It all depends if you wanna play the music market or just take fees from being part owner of the DAC or if you want to do both!

If you do both, say you have 1% off all Notes in existence, then you are making 1% off all (non-delegate) tx fees. And if you picked the right artistcoins, you can earn capital gains from that too.
Can you clearify what "notes" are?
In my universe only BitSharesMusicShares (what you get with ags/pts) and the Artistcoins exist.

I see three things which can drive demand for BitSharesMusicShares :
- tx fees
- you need BitSharesMusicShares when you want to buy any Artistshares
- BitSharesMusicShares get a low % of all Artistshares (I think kickstarter does it the same way? Not sure)

Isnt it that simple?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 08, 2014, 04:15:23 pm
Can you clearify what "notes" are?
In my universe only BitSharesMusicShares (what you get with ags/pts) and the Artistcoins exist.
AFAIK:    BitSharesMusicShares===notes

Quote
I see three things which can drive demand for BitSharesMusicShares :
- tx fees
- you need BitSharesMusicShares when you want to buy any Artistshares
- BitSharesMusicShares get a low % of all Artistshares (I think kickstarter does it the same way? Not sure)

Isnt it that simple?
that's my understanding too
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 05:02:28 pm
Bitshares Music shares = Notes.

Bitcoin = DAC
bitcoins = units / underlying asset / shares of this DAC


BitSharesX = DAC
BTSX = units / underlying asset / shares of this DAC


BitShares Music = DAC
NOTE = units / underlying asset / Shares of this DAC


As for why you'd want to own Notes

-Tx fees This has 2 parts. First tx fees of everything done on the blockchain. Second, Higher transaction fee when someone purchases music. You the Note holder is getting a cut off of each song/album sale.
-Anyone that wants to buy music needs to have Notes (in the form of BitUSD but Notes are what the collateral is on the back end)

Note holders do not get any artistcoin just for holding notes. The artist has 100% control over what he chooses to do with his own coins. He can sell them to fund his career, he can give them away to his fans, he can put them on McDonald's XL cups where you can scratch and win 5 Rihannacoins, whatever.
The power of the artistcoins is 100% in the hands of the artist.

Keep in mind that if that Rihanna McDonald's campaign drives people to use the BitShares Music blockchain, that's more tx fees for Note holders. If people buy some of rihanna's music on the site, that means high tx fees for Note holders once again.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: donkeypong on September 08, 2014, 05:20:30 pm
Exciting stuff! I'm looking forward to it. Considering that you folks will probably beat Apple and Amazon into the crypto space, I think the notion that people can spend their BTC for music is really strong. And the artist shares concept is bringing together the best of Kickstarter, Pandora, and American Idol. Gonna be huge...
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 08, 2014, 05:22:58 pm
@cob .. can the community be of any assistance when it comes to marketing? do you already have a marketing strategy?
Anything in general we can do to make this a success?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: jaran on September 08, 2014, 05:30:10 pm
Is the 45% presale going to be buy x amount of shares for y price?  Or is it going to be like If say 1000 people participate in the presale then 45% of the shares will be split between them weighted by how much they contribute?

Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: oco101 on September 08, 2014, 05:35:05 pm
Wow brilliant !!! This could really change the music industry forever !!! It involves the listeners and the fans in a level that was not possible before. Looking forward for all the details !!!!
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 08, 2014, 06:28:34 pm
Ok, got it.
Quote
(in the form of BitUSD but Notes are what the collateral is on the back end)
This means you have your own BitAssets on your BitShares Music blockchain?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 08, 2014, 06:30:16 pm
Ok, got it.
Quote
(in the form of BitUSD but Notes are what the collateral is on the back end)
This means you have your own BitAssets on your BitShares Music blockchain?
yhea .. cross chain trading ... => more demand for bitUSD ..
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: tonyk on September 08, 2014, 06:34:29 pm
Ok, got it.
Quote
(in the form of BitUSD but Notes are what the collateral is on the back end)
This means you have your own BitAssets on your BitShares Music blockchain?

Good for you!

I still have no clue what those Music bitUSD are?

or How are they backed by the notes?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: oco101 on September 08, 2014, 06:42:18 pm
Ok, got it.
Quote
(in the form of BitUSD but Notes are what the collateral is on the back end)
This means you have your own BitAssets on your BitShares Music blockchain?
yhea .. cross chain trading ... => more demand for bitUSD ..
So there will be a bitUSD market  that will work in Bitshare Music, and the collateral will be notes ? Is this right ?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 08, 2014, 06:57:40 pm
So there will be a bitUSD market  that will work in Bitshare Music, and the collateral will be notes ? Is this right ?
that's my understanding ... and I would guess that bitEUR,bitCNY and some others will be available too
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 08:06:59 pm
@cob .. can the community be of any assistance when it comes to marketing? do you already have a marketing strategy?
Anything in general we can do to make this a success?

Goal 1 is the pre-sale. So will just be focusing on the crypto world. Since they are the only ones that can actually purchase some Notes (they alone have BTC)
So as soon as our little landing page / pre-sale page is finished, we will be marketing towards the crypto people.

So we will greatly appreciate help on that side. If you know anyone interested in crypto in general. Point them to our site.
I will do my best to explain exactly how it works and what the potential is to you guys. Then you can go viral on their asses haha
Anything helps really. understanding it first of all. Then explaining it to people that might want to get in on the pre-sale.

Once the Pre-sale is done. Then we will be marketting to the music world. We let Eddie go to town on all his contacts.
On a peer 2 peer level, if you guys know any bands or musicians, point them our way. Link them to our newsletter sign up, to our (upcoming) explainer videos, etc. Eddie will focus on the big names, but this is for everyone, every local band should understand how turning their fans into promoters can help their career!

I will let you all know when we get to stage 1. In just a few days really!
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 08:12:51 pm
Is the 45% presale going to be buy x amount of shares for y price?  Or is it going to be like If say 1000 people participate in the presale then 45% of the shares will be split between them weighted by how much they contribute?

I will be a fixed price in BTC for a fixed amount of Notes. Very similar to what Ethereum did. I believe they started with 2000 ether for 1btc, then scaled it down each few weeks. We are doing the same.
Only the final amount of Notes will not be decided yet. Meaning Notes cannot sell out. So if only 1000 Notes sell in the pre-sale. then that means the total amount of notes on the blockchain will be 2222.22 Notes.
If 1 million Notes sell, that means the total amount of Notes at Genesis block will be 2 222 222 Notes.

For those that have seen the FAQ page, where it says there will be 2billion notes at genesis block, that is out of date, it was based on BitSharesX before the details of the Pre-Sale where written out.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 08, 2014, 08:15:44 pm
Ok, got it.
Quote
(in the form of BitUSD but Notes are what the collateral is on the back end)
This means you have your own BitAssets on your BitShares Music blockchain?

Good for you!

I still have no clue what those Music bitUSD are?

or How are they backed by the notes?
Also dont know whether those bitUSD are backed by btsx or notes...

+ how is that legally for an artist to issue shares in his success? As far as I understood, the artistcoinholders will get a share in the artist profits and not just some product like with kickstarter....
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 08, 2014, 08:20:32 pm
Goal 1 is the pre-sale. So will just be focusing on the crypto world. Since
they are the only ones that can actually purchase some Notes (they alone have
BTC) So as soon as our little landing page / pre-sale page is finished, we will
be marketing towards the crypto people.
Can help out on reddit and a little bitcointalk

Once the Pre-sale is done. Then we will be marketting to the music world. We
let Eddie go to town on all his contacts.
On a peer 2 peer level, if you guys know any bands or musicians, point them our
way. Link them to our newsletter sign up, to our (upcoming) explainer videos,
etc. Eddie will focus on the big names, but this is for everyone, every
local band should understand how turning their fans into promoters can
help their career!
- Please checkout jamendo.com and try to get in contact with them!!
- I will contact some local bands ..

I will be a fixed price in BTC for a fixed amount of Notes. Very similar to
what Ethereum did. I believe they started with 2000 ether for 1btc, then scaled
it down each few weeks. We are doing the same.  Only the final amount of Notes
will not be decided yet. Meaning Notes cannot sell out. So if only 1000 Notes
sell in the pre-sale. then that means the total amount of notes on the
blockchain will be 2222.22 Notes.  If 1 million Notes sell, that means the
total amount of Notes at Genesis block will be 2 222 222 Notes.
Could you please go over the numbers again and make sure we do not get the
maidsafe/mastercoin effect on PTS. In other words: if the deal is better for
BTC than PTS will tank.
Already have a number or nodes per btc?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 08:20:37 pm
Ok, got it.
Quote
(in the form of BitUSD but Notes are what the collateral is on the back end)
This means you have your own BitAssets on your BitShares Music blockchain?

Good for you!

I still have no clue what those Music bitUSD are?

or How are they backed by the notes?

Look at it this way.

BitUSD is not really a "thing" or a coin, it's 1 USD worth of BTSX. So when you are trading around a BitUSD, you are actually trading around 1 US dollar's worth of purchasing power of crypto... something. On the BitSharesX platform, 1 BitUSD is 1 US dollar's worth of BTSX.

On the BitShares Music Blockchain, the unit is the Note. So if you want to trade 1 BitUSD, you are really trading 1 US dollar's worth of Notes. Which takes the form of a BitUSD.

They both look like a digital US dollar, only if you open it up, one is collateralized by BTSX then other is collateralized by Notes.

I could get a loan at a bank, for 10k USD. They might ask for collateral. I could offer up my Honda Civic.
My friend could go to the bank and also ask for a 10k USD loan. He could offer up his VW Jetta as collateral. We both would have a 10 000 USD loan, but his is back a one type of car, mine is backed by another.

Not the best analogy but I hope it helps haha.

Also yes, Cross chain trading will be an eventual feature in the bitshares space. Bytemaster said so in another thread.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: tonyk on September 08, 2014, 08:27:27 pm
Ok, got it.
Quote
(in the form of BitUSD but Notes are what the collateral is on the back end)
This means you have your own BitAssets on your BitShares Music blockchain?

Good for you!

I still have no clue what those Music bitUSD are?

or How are they backed by the notes?

Look at it this way.

BitUSD is not really a "thing" or a coin, it's 1 USD worth of BTSX. So when you are trading around a BitUSD, you are actually trading around 1 US dollar's worth of purchasing power of crypto... something. On the BitSharesX platform, 1 BitUSD is 1 US dollar's worth of BTSX.

On the BitShares Music Blockchain, the unit is the Note. So if you want to trade 1 BitUSD, you are really trading 1 US dollar's worth of Notes. Which takes the form of a BitUSD.

They both look like a digital US dollar, only if you open it up, one is collateralized by BTSX then other is collateralized by Notes.

I could get a loan at a bank, for 10k USD. They might ask for collateral. I could offer up my Honda Civic.
My friend could go to the bank and also ask for a 10k USD loan. He could offer up his VW Jetta as collateral. We both would have a 10 000 USD loan, but his is back a one type of car, mine is backed by another.

Not the best analogy but I hope it helps haha.

Also yes, Cross chain trading will be an eventual feature in the bitshares space. Bytemaster said so in another thread.

I thought the question was simple:
Are you going to have full fledge market (like BTSX ) for your musicBitUSD or it will be reserved for development team +the founders +
PeerTracks corporation to issue those musicBitUSD?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: toast on September 08, 2014, 08:28:06 pm
It will use internal market just like BTSX.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 08, 2014, 08:29:07 pm
you are doing a good job keeping things simple.

We are almost there: how is that legally for an artist to issue shares in his success? As far as I understood, the artistcoinholders will get a share in the artist profits and not just some product like with kickstarter....
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: tonyk on September 08, 2014, 08:29:41 pm
It will use internal market just like BTSX.

And the justification for this is....?
Just cause they can?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: tonyk on September 08, 2014, 08:40:34 pm
Not that anybody cares BUT,

I for one am against this music DAC because of:

1)ONLY 10% for PTS and AGS and

•5% to our development team;
•5% to the founders;
•25% to the PeerTracks corporation;

whoever the 'founders' and 'PeerTracks corporation' are

2) Repeated  Ethereum stupidity - total supply of shares to be arrived based on money received and chosen arbitrary ratio (i.e. 2000 Notes per BTC)


1) Is insultingly low for PTS and AGS
I will not repeat myself regarding, what I think of, people having IPO and saying we will keep 25% - in short -"We get all the money + 25% free shares" ridiculous...

2) Is pretty stupid idea in itself.


Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 08, 2014, 08:43:45 pm
will we have our keyhotee founder names registered there aswell?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: clayop on September 08, 2014, 08:45:45 pm
So is it possible to transfer BitUSD bought from BTSX market to Bitshares Music blockchain? Or are they totally separated but just only use the same name?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: toast on September 08, 2014, 08:46:55 pm
you can "transfer" them with cross-chain trading
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 08, 2014, 08:47:10 pm
So is it possible to transfer BitUSD bought from BTSX market to Bitshares Music blockchain? Or are they totally separated but just only use the same name?
there will be cross-chain trading for bitAssets .. such as the bitUSD
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: oldman on September 08, 2014, 08:50:35 pm
Is the 45% presale going to be buy x amount of shares for y price?  Or is it going to be like If say 1000 people participate in the presale then 45% of the shares will be split between them weighted by how much they contribute?

I will be a fixed price in BTC for a fixed amount of Notes. Very similar to what Ethereum did. I believe they started with 2000 ether for 1btc, then scaled it down each few weeks. We are doing the same.
Only the final amount of Notes will not be decided yet. Meaning Notes cannot sell out. So if only 1000 Notes sell in the pre-sale. then that means the total amount of notes on the blockchain will be 2222.22 Notes.
If 1 million Notes sell, that means the total amount of Notes at Genesis block will be 2 222 222 Notes.

For those that have seen the FAQ page, where it says there will be 2billion notes at genesis block, that is out of date, it was based on BitSharesX before the details of the Pre-Sale where written out.


Would recommend sticking with the 2 billion share supply.

As more DACs are born it would advantageous to maintain as much consistency as possible throughout the Bitshares brand.

I'm envisioning seeing the first page of Coinmarket cap populated entirely with successful Bitshares DACs... would look mighty professional if they all started with the same number of shares.

Like soldiers on dress parade. Impressive.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: oco101 on September 08, 2014, 08:54:46 pm
So is it possible to transfer BitUSD bought from BTSX market to Bitshares Music blockchain? Or are they totally separated but just only use the same name?

Yes this will possible it is called Cross chain trading . Because  bitUSD are fungible it does't matter in what blockchain they are "minted"

see Cob complet answer here :



Look at it this way.

BitUSD is not really a "thing" or a coin, it's 1 USD worth of BTSX. So when you are trading around a BitUSD, you are actually trading around 1 US dollar's worth of purchasing power of crypto... something. On the BitSharesX platform, 1 BitUSD is 1 US dollar's worth of BTSX.

On the BitShares Music Blockchain, the unit is the Note. So if you want to trade 1 BitUSD, you are really trading 1 US dollar's worth of Notes. Which takes the form of a BitUSD.

They both look like a digital US dollar, only if you open it up, one is collateralized by BTSX then other is collateralized by Notes.

I could get a loan at a bank, for 10k USD. They might ask for collateral. I could offer up my Honda Civic.
My friend could go to the bank and also ask for a 10k USD loan. He could offer up his VW Jetta as collateral. We both would have a 10 000 USD loan, but his is back a one type of car, mine is backed by another.

Not the best analogy but I hope it helps haha.

Also yes, Cross chain trading will be an eventual feature in the bitshares space. Bytemaster said so in another thread.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: oldman on September 08, 2014, 09:11:56 pm
Not that anybody cares BUT,

I for one am against this music DAC because of:

1)ONLY 10% for PTS and AGS and

•5% to our development team;
•5% to the founders;
•25% to the PeerTracks corporation;

whoever the 'founders' and 'PeerTracks corporation' are

2) Repeated  Ethereum stupidity - total supply of shares to be arrived based on money received and chosen arbitrary ratio (i.e. 2000 Notes per BTC)


1) Is insultingly low for PTS and AGS
I will not repeat myself regarding, what I think of, people having IPO and saying we will keep 25% - in short -"We get all the money + 25% free shares" ridiculous...

2) Is pretty stupid idea in itself.

The allocation for AGS/PTS is fair and honours the social contract.

The social contract is what all AGS/PTS investments were premised on and consequently there should be no expectation of additional allocations.

As [mostly passive] investors we need to acknowledge that it is better to have a small piece of a big pie than a big piece of a small pie.

The social contact is designed to incentivize the creation of big pies, on the order of revolutionizing entire industries, and the profit motive cannot be diluted to a degree that is not attractive.

TL;DR: People gonna get rich, and you want a seat on the train. Not a whole car to yourself...


Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Riverhead on September 08, 2014, 09:30:46 pm
The allocation for AGS/PTS is fair and honours the social contract.

The social contract is what all AGS/PTS investments were premised on and consequently there should be no expectation of additional allocations.

As [mostly passive] investors we need to acknowledge that it is better to have a small piece of a big pie than a big piece of a small pie.

The social contact is designed to incentivize the creation of big pies, on the order of revolutionizing entire industries, and the profit motive cannot be diluted to a degree that is not attractive.

TL;DR: People gonna get rich, and you want a seat on the train. Not a whole car to yourself...

 +5%  Considering the amount of effort I'm putting into the Music DAC (read, none) I feel the allocations are accurate. If it grows to a billion dollar business we'll be rich. If it doesn't succeed than discussing percentages of this and that won't really matter.

There is no shortage of software developers and the Bitshares Toolkit is open source. They could just as easily tell us all to get bent and build it anyway (please don't).

Lastly I feel the music business at the higher levels is more about who you know that's already successful in the business. BitSharesX gains a lot more from grassroots forum member marketing to other cryptoheads.

This is all of course IMHO. I know nothing about the music business except that they get their money for nothing and their chicks for free.  8)
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 08, 2014, 09:33:54 pm
Not that anybody cares BUT,

I for one am against this music DAC because of:

1)ONLY 10% for PTS and AGS and

•5% to our development team;
•5% to the founders;
•25% to the PeerTracks corporation;

whoever the 'founders' and 'PeerTracks corporation' are

2) Repeated  Ethereum stupidity - total supply of shares to be arrived based on money received and chosen arbitrary ratio (i.e. 2000 Notes per BTC)


1) Is insultingly low for PTS and AGS
I will not repeat myself regarding, what I think of, people having IPO and saying we will keep 25% - in short -"We get all the money + 25% free shares" ridiculous...

2) Is pretty stupid idea in itself.
I partially second that.
10 % is a little disappointing. Something between 10 and 25% would show some love.

Have to say thought that I love the business model and the team is great too. Eddie is funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16MhYDfgr3E
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: tonyk on September 08, 2014, 09:42:14 pm
Not that anybody cares BUT,

I for one am against this music DAC because of:

1)ONLY 10% for PTS and AGS and

•5% to our development team;
•5% to the founders;
•25% to the PeerTracks corporation;

whoever the 'founders' and 'PeerTracks corporation' are

2) Repeated  Ethereum stupidity - total supply of shares to be arrived based on money received and chosen arbitrary ratio (i.e. 2000 Notes per BTC)


1) Is insultingly low for PTS and AGS
I will not repeat myself regarding, what I think of, people having IPO and saying we will keep 25% - in short -"We get all the money + 25% free shares" ridiculous...

2) Is pretty stupid idea in itself.

The allocation for AGS/PTS is fair and honours the social contract.

The social contract is what all AGS/PTS investments were premised on and consequently there should be no expectation of additional allocations.

As [mostly passive] investors we need to acknowledge that it is better to have a small piece of a big pie than a big piece of a small pie.

The social contact is designed to incentivize the creation of big pies, on the order of revolutionizing entire industries, and the profit motive cannot be diluted to a degree that is not attractive.

TL;DR: People gonna get rich, and you want a seat on the train. Not a whole car to yourself...


'Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.

Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth.'



...or better:

'It makes me happy to see that men do not want to think at all.'
Friedrich Nietzsche

Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 08, 2014, 09:53:48 pm
+ how is that legally for an artist to issue shares in his success? As far as I understood, the artistcoinholders will get a share in the artist profits and not just some product like with kickstarter....

Yes that part is still the secret sauce.

The artist is not really sharing his profits. No dividends are actually paid out. It's the value of the artistcoin that can go up with sales of songs / albums.  There is a mechanism in place that I'll explain on a later date.

Artistcoins will be like baseball cards.
Supply and demand dictate how much they are worth.
If everyone wants them, they are worth more.
if 99% of them get burned in a warehouse fire, they will also be a rare collectible with a higher price.

Don't worry I'll get to the details soon enough
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: oldman on September 08, 2014, 10:00:49 pm
Not that anybody cares BUT,

I for one am against this music DAC because of:

1)ONLY 10% for PTS and AGS and

•5% to our development team;
•5% to the founders;
•25% to the PeerTracks corporation;

whoever the 'founders' and 'PeerTracks corporation' are

2) Repeated  Ethereum stupidity - total supply of shares to be arrived based on money received and chosen arbitrary ratio (i.e. 2000 Notes per BTC)


1) Is insultingly low for PTS and AGS
I will not repeat myself regarding, what I think of, people having IPO and saying we will keep 25% - in short -"We get all the money + 25% free shares" ridiculous...

2) Is pretty stupid idea in itself.

The allocation for AGS/PTS is fair and honours the social contract.

The social contract is what all AGS/PTS investments were premised on and consequently there should be no expectation of additional allocations.

As [mostly passive] investors we need to acknowledge that it is better to have a small piece of a big pie than a big piece of a small pie.

The social contact is designed to incentivize the creation of big pies, on the order of revolutionizing entire industries, and the profit motive cannot be diluted to a degree that is not attractive.

TL;DR: People gonna get rich, and you want a seat on the train. Not a whole car to yourself...


'Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.

Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth.'



...or better:

'It makes me happy to see that men do not want to think at all.'
Friedrich Nietzsche

It really comes down to long term greed vs. short term greed.

Long term greed always offers better ROI.

Think long term!
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 09, 2014, 06:39:06 am
The allocation for AGS/PTS is fair and honours the social contract.
The social contract is what all AGS/PTS investments were premised on and consequently there should be no expectation of additional allocations.
To make some points crystal clear:

 - AGS never was and never will be an INVESTMENT. Everything you've sent there is a DONATION!!!
 - there have been NO promises made in regards to allocations, how can they (i3) .. it's out of their hands how 3rd party developers decided the initial distribution. PTS/AGS distribution is about showing love to the community and 'buying' support from them .. and wit 10% each cob FULFILLS his side of the social consensus. As a consequence, I (and probably the bigger part of the community) will support cob. period!
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: bitrose on September 09, 2014, 06:42:19 am
enjoy love
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 09, 2014, 07:14:58 am
tonyk is a little skeptic about the pre-sale:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4788.msg111639#msg111639
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: tonyk on September 09, 2014, 07:29:54 am
tonyk is a little skeptic about the pre-sale:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4788.msg111639#msg111639

If you have to put it mildly...


PS
Hey, but I do not discourage it as a pure  money grabbing scheme! You can never overestimate the stupidity of people.
They (people) will always beat your wildest 'dreams'...
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: sumantso on September 10, 2014, 09:09:21 am
The allocation for AGS/PTS is fair and honours the social contract.
The social contract is what all AGS/PTS investments were premised on and consequently there should be no expectation of additional allocations.
To make some points crystal clear:

 - AGS never was and never will be an INVESTMENT. Everything you've sent there is a DONATION!!!
 - there have been NO promises made in regards to allocations, how can they (i3) .. it's out of their hands how 3rd party developers decided the initial distribution. PTS/AGS distribution is about showing love to the community and 'buying' support from them .. and wit 10% each cob FULFILLS his side of the social consensus. As a consequence, I (and probably the bigger part of the community) will support cob. period!

You can always play on words as you like, but after the Feb 28 snapshot Stan and co made it quite clear that AGS  (and PTS too) was useful as it gave nice, big stake in the core DACs. It was also implied that while we get only 10/10 from the other 3rd party DACs, the core DACs will give us a big percentage; even upto 50/50. Then the initial announcement with Zenithcoin promised us 25/25.

So you can keep saying 'DONATION', 'NO promises' but we all know what was said. If you are changing it now then fine, but don't insult us by saying all that.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 10, 2014, 09:20:30 am
.... but don't insult us by saying all that.
I didn't mean to insult anyone .. I didn't even mean to defend any decisions. I just wanted to fix the terms.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: tonyk on September 10, 2014, 09:58:26 am
The allocation for AGS/PTS is fair and honours the social contract.
The social contract is what all AGS/PTS investments were premised on and consequently there should be no expectation of additional allocations.
To make some points crystal clear:

 - AGS never was and never will be an INVESTMENT. Everything you've sent there is a DONATION!!!
 - there have been NO promises made in regards to allocations, how can they (i3) .. it's out of their hands how 3rd party developers decided the initial distribution. PTS/AGS distribution is about showing love to the community and 'buying' support from them .. and wit 10% each cob FULFILLS his side of the social consensus. As a consequence, I (and probably the bigger part of the community) will support cob. period!

You can always play on words as you like, but after the Feb 28 snapshot Stan and co made it quite clear that AGS  (and PTS too) was useful as it gave nice, big stake in the core DACs. It was also implied that while we get only 10/10 from the other 3rd party DACs, the core DACs will give us a big percentage; even upto 50/50. Then the initial announcement with Zenithcoin promised us 25/25.

So you can keep saying 'DONATION', 'NO promises' but we all know what was said. If you are changing it now then fine, but don't insult us by saying all that.

I think Xerox is misled here by his believe that he is dealing with the same kind of honest human beings like BM.

I am on the same page as you sumantso (and the navies like xerocs, will have to turn the page soon), it is a whole other game my friends... whole new game with this DAC!
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 10, 2014, 10:41:59 am
I think Xerox is misled here by his believe that he is dealing with the same kind of honest human beings like BM.

I am on the same page as you sumantso (and the navies like xerocs, will have to turn the page soon), it is a whole other game my friends... whole new game with this DAC!
My wife tries to teach me this on a regular basis .. maybe .. someday I can be convinced :)

only time will tell
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: liondani on September 10, 2014, 11:39:14 am
Is the 45% presale going to be buy x amount of shares for y price?  Or is it going to be like If say 1000 people participate in the presale then 45% of the shares will be split between them weighted by how much they contribute?

I will be a fixed price in BTC for a fixed amount of Notes. Very similar to what Ethereum did. I believe they started with 2000 ether for 1btc, then scaled it down each few weeks. We are doing the same.
Only the final amount of Notes will not be decided yet. Meaning Notes cannot sell out. So if only 1000 Notes sell in the pre-sale. then that means the total amount of notes on the blockchain will be 2222.22 Notes.
If 1 million Notes sell, that means the total amount of Notes at Genesis block will be 2 222 222 Notes.

For those that have seen the FAQ page, where it says there will be 2billion notes at genesis block, that is out of date, it was based on BitSharesX before the details of the Pre-Sale where written out.

why not add zeros at the end when the presale ends... (the % is the same after all for the purchasers)
I mean if for example you sell   35.000.000 notes scale it up to 3.5 billion notes and give everyone 100x more notes... scale it up like the exchanges have do with BTSX when we decided to go from 4 milions BTSX to 2 billions... where is the problem?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: bitbro on September 10, 2014, 11:46:58 am

Is the 45% presale going to be buy x amount of shares for y price?  Or is it going to be like If say 1000 people participate in the presale then 45% of the shares will be split between them weighted by how much they contribute?

I will be a fixed price in BTC for a fixed amount of Notes. Very similar to what Ethereum did. I believe they started with 2000 ether for 1btc, then scaled it down each few weeks. We are doing the same.
Only the final amount of Notes will not be decided yet. Meaning Notes cannot sell out. So if only 1000 Notes sell in the pre-sale. then that means the total amount of notes on the blockchain will be 2222.22 Notes.
If 1 million Notes sell, that means the total amount of Notes at Genesis block will be 2 222 222 Notes.

For those that have seen the FAQ page, where it says there will be 2billion notes at genesis block, that is out of date, it was based on BitSharesX before the details of the Pre-Sale where written out.


Would recommend sticking with the 2 billion share supply.

As more DACs are born it would advantageous to maintain as much consistency as possible throughout the Bitshares brand.

I'm envisioning seeing the first page of Coinmarket cap populated entirely with successful Bitshares DACs... would look mighty professional if they all started with the same number of shares.

Like soldiers on dress parade. Impressive.

+1

Hope you guys do this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Troglodactyl on September 10, 2014, 01:15:57 pm
Assuming the founders, devs, and corporation are the same people, the current allocation means that as long as that group retains levels of public support rivaling the United States Congress, they'll effectively have full control of the network.  If the "decentralized network" core is intended to be more than a marketing gimmick, I'd allocate more Notes to either the pre-sale or to PTS/AGS.  As long as PeerTracks is doing its job well and has public support, elected delegates should pass most of the profits on to them anyway, without having to rely on appointed delegates.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: oco101 on September 10, 2014, 01:47:22 pm
Assuming the founders, devs, and corporation are the same people, the current allocation means that as long as that group retains levels of public support rivaling the United States Congress, they'll effectively have full control of the network.  If the "decentralized network" core is intended to be more than a marketing gimmick, I'd allocate more Notes to either the pre-sale or to PTS/AGS.  As long as PeerTracks is doing its job well and has public support, elected delegates should pass most of the profits on to them anyway, without having to rely on appointed delegates.

+1
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: santaclause102 on September 10, 2014, 02:27:34 pm
Assuming the founders, devs, and corporation are the same people, the current allocation means that as long as that group retains levels of public support rivaling the United States Congress, they'll effectively have full control of the network.  If the "decentralized network" core is intended to be more than a marketing gimmick, I'd allocate more Notes to either the pre-sale or to PTS/AGS.  As long as PeerTracks is doing its job well and has public support, elected delegates should pass most of the profits on to them anyway, without having to rely on appointed delegates.
+5%
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: bytemaster on September 10, 2014, 04:19:30 pm
I think it would be better to call it a "transparent core" than a "decentralized core"...
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Troglodactyl on September 10, 2014, 05:13:28 pm
I think it would be better to call it a "transparent core" than a "decentralized core"...
If the blockchain is intended to transparently be a puppet of the corporation, wouldn't it make more sense to use a traditional database instead?

I have no objection to the AGS/PTS allocation in itself, but that much concentrated stake seems to make the blockchain and DPOS rather superfluous.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 10, 2014, 05:34:27 pm
After a nice long talk with Toast today, we've come to a solution. Still working out a few of the details. Will let you all know soon enough.

Thanks for you input guys!
That being said, keep it coming (:
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Shentist on September 10, 2014, 06:31:51 pm
i don't get the concept at all!

what i understand is this

bitshares Music - the blockchain -

will handle the trustless support of the artists. the can create "Artistcoins" (i don't like coin in this case - maybe Supporter would be better). So i buy shares from the Artist the Artist gets funds, but i don't get how i will get paid? just for selling songs with the blockchain? so the artist will sell also via itunes and amazon and the supporters will get nothing??
many questions here

peertrack

will get also a share for commissions etc. . i don't get it why everything needs done so complicated.

maybe run a mumble server time to discuss and talk what you want end maybe the community provides a better solution.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 10, 2014, 06:58:25 pm
maybe run a mumble server time to discuss ...
+5%
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Shentist on September 10, 2014, 08:12:56 pm
The allocation for AGS/PTS is fair and honours the social contract.
The social contract is what all AGS/PTS investments were premised on and consequently there should be no expectation of additional allocations.
To make some points crystal clear:

 - AGS never was and never will be an INVESTMENT. Everything you've sent there is a DONATION!!!
 - there have been NO promises made in regards to allocations, how can they (i3) .. it's out of their hands how 3rd party developers decided the initial distribution. PTS/AGS distribution is about showing love to the community and 'buying' support from them .. and wit 10% each cob FULFILLS his side of the social consensus. As a consequence, I (and probably the bigger part of the community) will support cob. period!

You can always play on words as you like, but after the Feb 28 snapshot Stan and co made it quite clear that AGS  (and PTS too) was useful as it gave nice, big stake in the core DACs. It was also implied that while we get only 10/10 from the other 3rd party DACs, the core DACs will give us a big percentage; even upto 50/50. Then the initial announcement with Zenithcoin promised us 25/25.

So you can keep saying 'DONATION', 'NO promises' but we all know what was said. If you are changing it now then fine, but don't insult us by saying all that.

the funny part at all - not the community made this up 50/50 but them self in April 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16MhYDfgr3E watch 12:10 - here is the 50/50 split official announced.

i liked the presentation. i understand it now better, but with broken promises before the start......i am not sure what i have to think about this project at all.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: gamey on September 10, 2014, 08:54:51 pm

Money has to come from somewhere.  If people want the thing to be a success then the money needs to be taken out of btsx fund. 

To be a success and appeal to the young demographic then this thing really needs to be slick.  So there needs to be software close to iTunes or we need to luck across the next Justin Bieber.  I dunno.. How do all these things go together ?  Development is not cheap.  It requires expensive labor.  It is also not easy.  There are great differences in the abilities of developers, it can be easy to hire a dud which is only revealed after a few weeks of training etc.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Shentist on September 10, 2014, 09:52:09 pm

Money has to come from somewhere.  If people want the thing to be a success then the money needs to be taken out of btsx fund. 

To be a success and appeal to the young demographic then this thing really needs to be slick.  So there needs to be software close to iTunes or we need to luck across the next Justin Bieber.  I dunno.. How do all these things go together ?  Development is not cheap.  It requires expensive labor.  It is also not easy.  There are great differences in the abilities of developers, it can be easy to hire a dud which is only revealed after a few weeks of training etc.


i agree - to build something you need money. but was that not clear from the beginning?

in the beginning eddi and cob announced a 50/50 split

i have no problem if they would just post something to explain the changes and do it fair! Delution to raise money is ok!

BUT

10% of all Notes are going to the holders of BitShares PTS.
10% to those that donated to the BitShares AGS address.
45% to those that purchase Notes in our Pre-Sale
5% to our development team (Bitsapphire)
5% to the founders
25% to the PeerTracks corporation

if the delution would be fair the % of (eddi and cobs) side would be honor their first announcement and delute equal
so in my opinion the split should be

A)
15% PTS
15% AGS
==30%
25% PeerTracks
5% founders
== 30%
5% bitsapphire
35% Pre-Sale

if you want to give 45% to Pre- Sales it should split
12.5% PTS
12.5% AGS
==25%
20.83% PeerTracks
4.17% founder
==25%
5% bitsapphire
45% Pre-Sales

in my opinion both splits are fair and i hope you will consider the split or explain why you wouldn't stay to your own words. you want to get a successful start and need supporter from this community.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Chuckone on September 10, 2014, 10:22:45 pm
My understanding is that when you start to play in the "real" world (read here, the highly regulated and inefficient market), there's a lot of hurdles to overcome to get something out for the masses. Getting the software up and running is only a small part of what needs to be accomplished. Getting legal licenses, paying the lawyers to represent yourself and make sure you're not going to be sued (or prosecuted and shut down), do the proper marketing and networking to high end potential users/clients...

Any startup that isn't launched only in the unregulated crypto world needs a lot of money, particularly when dealing with copyrights and burdensome regulation...

In any case, I do understand that what was promised for distribution VS what it really is... not really the same thing...
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: pendragon3 on September 11, 2014, 12:57:12 am

Money has to come from somewhere.  If people want the thing to be a success then the money needs to be taken out of btsx fund. 

To be a success and appeal to the young demographic then this thing really needs to be slick.  So there needs to be software close to iTunes or we need to luck across the next Justin Bieber.  I dunno.. How do all these things go together ?  Development is not cheap.  It requires expensive labor.  It is also not easy.  There are great differences in the abilities of developers, it can be easy to hire a dud which is only revealed after a few weeks of training etc.

Yes. To compete successfully against the likes of iTunes, Amazon, and whatever other competitors emerge from the woodwork, Bitshares Music/PeerTracks is going to need every advantage they can get, including full support of the community.

Let's hope they come to their senses and see the wisdom of a higher allocation for PTS & AGS, e.g, at least 15-20% (which would likely translate into a larger, more successful presale anyways).
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: fuzzy on September 11, 2014, 11:25:43 am

Money has to come from somewhere.  If people want the thing to be a success then the money needs to be taken out of btsx fund. 

To be a success and appeal to the young demographic then this thing really needs to be slick.  So there needs to be software close to iTunes or we need to luck across the next Justin Bieber.  I dunno.. How do all these things go together ?  Development is not cheap.  It requires expensive labor.  It is also not easy.  There are great differences in the abilities of developers, it can be easy to hire a dud which is only revealed after a few weeks of training etc.


i agree - to build something you need money. but was that not clear from the beginning?

in the beginning eddi and cob announced a 50/50 split

i have no problem if they would just post something to explain the changes and do it fair! Delution to raise money is ok!

BUT

10% of all Notes are going to the holders of BitShares PTS.
10% to those that donated to the BitShares AGS address.
45% to those that purchase Notes in our Pre-Sale
5% to our development team (Bitsapphire)
5% to the founders
25% to the PeerTracks corporation

if the delution would be fair the % of (eddi and cobs) side would be honor their first announcement and delute equal
so in my opinion the split should be

A)
15% PTS
15% AGS
==30%
25% PeerTracks
5% founders
== 30%
5% bitsapphire
35% Pre-Sale

if you want to give 45% to Pre- Sales it should split
12.5% PTS
12.5% AGS
==25%
20.83% PeerTracks
4.17% founder
==25%
5% bitsapphire
45% Pre-Sales

in my opinion both splits are fair and i hope you will consider the split or explain why you wouldn't stay to your own words. you want to get a successful start and need supporter from this community.

I support it at 10/10.  I think people have a tendency to forget how many DACs are going to be coming out that honor PTS/AGS...

Imagine in 10 years having "small stakes" in 80 Bitcoin Sized businesses.  If that is the equivalency to 1-2BTC, you end up with a pretty strong long-term return with 80-160BTC in your pocket--especially if bitcoin is $10,000 each by then.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 11, 2014, 12:04:51 pm
let's rephrase it:

Imaging you had a stake in every single of the 800 currently available altcoins!
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Chuckone on September 11, 2014, 01:26:15 pm
I have absolutely no doubt that any PTS/AGS investment done early will give a really good ROI, better than anything you can get in the non-crypto world.

Many people will get wealthy with this investment, even if they donated only a few BTC in AGS at the right moment. So IMO getting greedy now isn't the way to go!
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: toast on September 11, 2014, 02:43:41 pm
cob and I talked, he should have a revised allocation soon
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: xeroc on September 11, 2014, 02:46:31 pm
cob and I talked, he should have a revised allocation soon
tonyk will be pleased to see this :)
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 11, 2014, 03:17:27 pm
cob and I talked, he should have a revised allocation soon
tonyk will be pleased to see this :)

Can tonyk even be pleased?
^^
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: tonyk on September 11, 2014, 03:31:01 pm
cob and I talked, he should have a revised allocation soon
tonyk will be pleased to see this :)

It will be a start...
My beef do not end there...hell, I can live with 10/10 AGS/PTS, if I see 80% IPO that makes sense (passes the shark tank criteria), -improved AGS model of kinds...
Let's see...

[edit] Even with that done, in house exchange printing bitMusicUSDs will be a no go for me.

cob and I talked, he should have a revised allocation soon
tonyk will be pleased to see this :)

Can tonyk even be pleased?
^^

I am quite pleased by BTSX!
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: clayop on September 13, 2014, 07:58:33 pm
Waiting for new allocation announcement :)
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: Akado on September 13, 2014, 09:13:41 pm

Is the 45% presale going to be buy x amount of shares for y price?  Or is it going to be like If say 1000 people participate in the presale then 45% of the shares will be split between them weighted by how much they contribute?

I will be a fixed price in BTC for a fixed amount of Notes. Very similar to what Ethereum did. I believe they started with 2000 ether for 1btc, then scaled it down each few weeks. We are doing the same.
Only the final amount of Notes will not be decided yet. Meaning Notes cannot sell out. So if only 1000 Notes sell in the pre-sale. then that means the total amount of notes on the blockchain will be 2222.22 Notes.
If 1 million Notes sell, that means the total amount of Notes at Genesis block will be 2 222 222 Notes.

For those that have seen the FAQ page, where it says there will be 2billion notes at genesis block, that is out of date, it was based on BitSharesX before the details of the Pre-Sale where written out.


Would recommend sticking with the 2 billion share supply.

As more DACs are born it would advantageous to maintain as much consistency as possible throughout the Bitshares brand.

I'm envisioning seeing the first page of Coinmarket cap populated entirely with successful Bitshares DACs... would look mighty professional if they all started with the same number of shares.

Like soldiers on dress parade. Impressive.

+1

Hope you guys do this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like this, a 2 billion share supply.

And I would also prefer if the stake had a better distribution. Waiting to see the new allocation
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: VoR0220 on September 17, 2014, 09:49:20 am

Money has to come from somewhere.  If people want the thing to be a success then the money needs to be taken out of btsx fund. 

To be a success and appeal to the young demographic then this thing really needs to be slick.  So there needs to be software close to iTunes or we need to luck across the next Justin Bieber.  I dunno.. How do all these things go together ?  Development is not cheap.  It requires expensive labor.  It is also not easy.  There are great differences in the abilities of developers, it can be easy to hire a dud which is only revealed after a few weeks of training etc.

I don't understand why people think iTunes software is so slick. I find Pandora, Spotify, Bandcamp, Soundcloud and Grooveshark to be much nicer in terms of user interface (though you could make the argument that Spotify is pretty close to iTunes but they've made some big changes to their software). So yes. This thing needs to be slick. But as I've pointed out in my topic, it also needs to be free if it will appeal to the young demographic. I speak as someone in the young demographic. Yes there are those who still buy CDs out of some moral obligation they feel to an outdated business model or those that love having a pile of CDs next to them or those who are hipsters and like collecting vinyls (audiophiles...) but the vast majority of the young demographic today either streams or downloads their music for free while dealing with advertisements in the case of streams.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: bitsapphire on September 18, 2014, 07:46:58 pm
I don't understand why people think iTunes software is so slick. I find Pandora, Spotify, Bandcamp, Soundcloud and Grooveshark to be much nicer in terms of user interface (though you could make the argument that Spotify is pretty close to iTunes but they've made some big changes to their software). So yes. This thing needs to be slick. But as I've pointed out in my topic, it also needs to be free if it will appeal to the young demographic. I speak as someone in the young demographic. Yes there are those who still buy CDs out of some moral obligation they feel to an outdated business model or those that love having a pile of CDs next to them or those who are hipsters and like collecting vinyls (audiophiles...) but the vast majority of the young demographic today either streams or downloads their music for free while dealing with advertisements in the case of streams.

We are taking this into account while doing our UX design. The design will be heavily user testing driven.
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: sschechter on September 18, 2014, 07:55:43 pm
Any new updates?  Perhaps snapshot or development estimates?
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: woolcii on September 19, 2014, 05:06:26 pm

Any new updates?  Perhaps snapshot or development estimates?

None
Title: Re: Any latest information?
Post by: cob on September 21, 2014, 04:48:48 am
Any new updates?  Perhaps snapshot or development estimates?

This week is a legal setup week.

Attorneys, weighing out options, etc. I want to avoid announcing something and then doing a 180 and announcing something else. So give us a few more days and we will have an official announcement to make.