Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Empirical1.2

Pages: 1 ... 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 [84] 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92
1246
The question perhaps then should be considered more simply as: how much is a new user worth?

Time to review this old thread :)

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9603.0


Yes... this would be game changing... yes... inflation in this case would yield a net gain for shareholders.

Suppose we already were good friends with people offering such a pre-paid card?
Suppose these friends already owned a large percentage of BTSX?

:o

 :P


1247

I would suggest in promoting this, that the tone should be noting the principal motivation is all about promoting BitShares and attracting those who understand its potential and become active users themselves, rather than this being considered just "the next big thing" for marketeers to leech dry.

The only way it could be leeched dry is if we use the delegate model you are suggesting which pays more in commissions than we take in in revenue.
We want this to be seen as the next big thing.  We want martketers to come from far and wide and use their skills promoting this because it is such a good opportunity.  I dont understand peoples mentality that it will attract the wrong type of use.  How can you be the wrong type of user of a currency?


I think he means how MLM could effect the BTS brand image to the point that it does more harm than good in terms of adding value and users. MLM already has some negative perceptions and it's one thing to do it for make-up and kitchenware but perhaps another for financial products especially when unregulated digital shares are already viewed with scepticism, especially ours, with our variable supply rules being decided by a tiny largely unknown, unaccountable group of early adopters. 

For example you thought dilution would be a good idea, allowing more resources to be directed at attracting users and be received well by the market but this has so far clearly not been the case.

While I think the MLM concerns are valid, the seeming unstoppable BTC downtrend that BTS has been on since it's suggestion and creation puts it on suicide watch,  so its' the strategically correct time for throwing some hail Mary's. Also it doesn't require dilution which is promising. At the very least, the lessons we learn here and the products developed can only help further the industry as a whole. 

1248
+5% This is a very good idea

As I've said previously I think BitSapphire & other third party products should incorporate elements of fee sharing too.

ASAP but KISS.. and obviously we'll need a league table to see the real impact and learn from who's doing what and how.. kudos can be as valuable as BTS!

 +5% This is true

BitShares still unfortunately has the possible Achilles heel of being viewed as a crypto-company vs. a crypto-currency which makes it very hard to build network effect.  (A solid crypto-currency is big FU to Governments, banks, central planners and even manipulated precious metals & a no inflation BTSX with funding, rockstar developers & BitAssets was the best crypto-currency on the market & it's constantly growing community & valuation reflected that.  I know some people don't grasp how hard it is to build a community around a variable dilution company but hopefully seeing the massive and consistent decline in BitShares value ( >70% in $ & BTC terms)  these last 6 months you have at least observed in practice that the valuations & popularity of the the two models are world's apart.)

I think moonstone plus something like this could give BTS a shot, it's just uneccasarily hard work when the $ BTS accesses via dilution at this CAP is less than a no inflation BTSX was getting just from fees.

Every Silicon Valley startup works the same way we do - pay early employees with stock to conserve liquid cash.

BitShares is structured for growth into the general population where its self-funding model will enable exponential growth unimpeded by old school crypto-think.  I agree it makes that big old engine a little harder to start among the small crypto investor community, but that's just one of many steely-eyed tradeoffs we have to make when thinking bigger.

The core product IS the crypto-currency itself.

When you destroy the crypto-currency to optimise yourself as a crypto-company you destroy your core product on which your community, network effect and valuation is based. So much so that a self funding BTS has less $ to work with than BTSX generated from fees and these dilution $ are eating into the share price everyday.

Whatever BTS develops, a popular strong crypto-currency will add to their blockchain if it's useful, so BTS will even struggle to be like an Apple and build some sort of community & value around BTS products.

As I said to you 6 months ago on the last day that BTSX was consistently rising in value on a trajectory that would have made us all wealthy and helped change the world for the better... 

At first I wasn't sure if this was a good idea but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

We know that a lot of bitcoiners and altcoiners think btsx is a "crapcoin" and a ponzi scheme. So why do we really care what they say about us diluting btsx? Many of them are set in stone and won't "convert". This is why they aren't a target demographic for btsx. Our time, money and energy should be focused on people outside the crypto sphere. Those people don't care how it works, but if it works.

I think as long as this is well thought out and all other options are exhausted that we should go for it.

Kind of reminds me of the famous five monkeys experiment. 
Nobody in those communities is willing to go for the bananas any more
but no one remembers why.
;)


Kind of reminds me of the famous goose that laid the golden eggs.




I think moonstone & this idea look good and I'm still holding a little because BitAssets are fantastic. However if this model really takes off you will have the last laugh because I could be buying big at these prices and I'm not. So possibly my loss.

1249
 +5% This is a very good idea

As I've said previously I think BitSapphire & other third party products should incorporate elements of fee sharing too.

ASAP but KISS.. and obviously we'll need a league table to see the real impact and learn from who's doing what and how.. kudos can be as valuable as BTS!

 +5% This is true

BitShares still unfortunately has the possible Achilles heel of being viewed as a crypto-company vs. a crypto-currency which makes it very hard to build network effect.  (A solid crypto-currency is big FU to Governments, banks, central planners and even manipulated precious metals & a no inflation BTSX with funding, rockstar developers & BitAssets was the best crypto-currency on the market & it's constantly growing community & valuation reflected that.  I know some people don't grasp how hard it is to build a community around a variable dilution company but hopefully seeing the massive and consistent decline in BitShares value ( >70% in $ & BTC terms)  these last 6 months you have at least observed in practice that the valuations & popularity of the the two models are world's apart.)

I think moonstone plus something like this could give BTS a shot, it's just uneccasarily hard work when the $ BTS accesses via dilution at this CAP is less than a no inflation BTSX was getting just from fees.

1250
General Discussion / Re: What's happening with the price?
« on: March 23, 2015, 02:58:15 pm »
The new BTS is structured as a company and derives it's valuation primarily from the market's perception of the development and adoption of the product, BitAssets.

BitAsset adoption is anemic and there's a large gap between where BitAssets are and where they need to be for even existing shareholders to adopt them to any meaningful degree.  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14831.msg192017#msg192017

Development costs money. BTS is primarily funding development via dilution. Therefore the lower the price goes the less competitive BTS becomes & the less likely it is that it will be successful.


1251
I predicted that if you broke the 0.5 CNY and $20 million seal you could see BTS dip quite sharply.

There seems to be some significant buying support though, even at this level. I'm assuming it's in anticipation of Moonstone.

The new BitShares however has never generated gains. That was BitSharesX.

If you put Gold, Silver, Bitcoin, DarkCoin, NXT and BitShares in a group. BitShares would be the odd one out.


1252
General Discussion / Re: What's happening with the price?
« on: March 17, 2015, 12:20:11 pm »
I think the circa 0.05 CNY and $20 million is a key support level.

1253
General Discussion / Re: What's happening with the price?
« on: March 13, 2015, 01:16:48 am »
"It's always darkest before the dawn".

Now where have I heard that before?  :)

It is always darkest before dawn.   We have all seen how fast it can rise on crazy volume.    Easy come, easy go.   

Living by the day to day price moves is a good way to lose sight of our mission.

Then again near the poles it can be night for up to 6 months...

1254
General Discussion / Re: What's happening with the price?
« on: March 12, 2015, 03:37:59 pm »
Does anyone know how much of the merger allocation is being claimed on average?

There's up to 650k merger BTS being released a day in addition to the up to 100k via delegate dilution which is a significant amount relative to the average BTS buy walls which could be having an impact on BTS sustaining it's price at this stage. http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts

well ....to be fair , most of the merger BTS was cost at least 3X than what it is now . (esp. those who got it from PTS / DNS / AGS)
I don't think many people would dump at this price .

This is true. I would be surprised if even 25% of it was sold on average a day.

I think though most people making the effort to claim their merger BTS are probably sellers. So I can make some guesses for myself about how much is being sold if I know how much is being claimed.

1255
General Discussion / Re: What's happening with the price?
« on: March 12, 2015, 03:25:51 pm »
Does anyone know how much of the merger allocation is being claimed on average?

There's up to 650k merger BTS being released a day in addition to the up to 100k via delegate dilution which is a significant amount relative to the average BTS buy walls which could be having an impact on BTS sustaining it's price at this stage. http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts

 



1256
General Discussion / Re: What's happening with the price?
« on: March 10, 2015, 11:47:09 pm »
Yes, mistakes were made.  Large mistakes.  BTS holders at the time paid the price dearly.  Those of us who didn't realize they were mistakes and held have suffered. 

One cannot undo mistakes of the past, we can only make decisions now.
The relevant question is:

At the present time, with the features that BTS has now (Paid delegates, market assets, etc), is a price of 3200 satoshis per BTS too high, too low, or roughly correct?

Based on your available funds, and current exposure to BTS or lack thereof, is the correct move for your portfolio to increase your BTS holdings, decrease, or hold the same?

I took a big position in BTS again at the 0.000045 BTC level we seemed to stabilise at as I thought with all the positive developments and the mistakes priced in, we'd start to grow again.  That has obviously proved to be incorrect. So I've been exiting that trade at a loss.

For what BTS technically is and how rapidly it can develop I think it's severely underpriced. However in terms of community growth, BitAsset adoption and general sentiment we've been weak & because we've been in a fairly sustained downtrend I've actually even sold a bit of my base position too.  I'm also concerned about the amount of development BTS seems to need and if it can afford it for more than a few months if the price doesn't recover.

In conclusion I would say we're cheap but I've already taken some losses so even if I miss some of the initial gains, i'll probably wait for a clear change in the direction rather than trying to call the bottom before I accumulate again.

1257
General Discussion / Re: What's happening with the price?
« on: March 10, 2015, 10:41:33 pm »
Our BTC high was Oct 5th and we've been declining in $ and BTC terms since.   

At first I wasn't sure if this was a good idea but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

We know that a lot of bitcoiners and altcoiners think btsx is a "crapcoin" and a ponzi scheme. So why do we really care what they say about us diluting btsx? Many of them are set in stone and won't "convert". This is why they aren't a target demographic for btsx. Our time, money and energy should be focused on people outside the crypto sphere. Those people don't care how it works, but if it works.

I think as long as this is well thought out and all other options are exhausted that we should go for it.

Kind of reminds me of the famous five monkeys experiment. 
Nobody in those communities is willing to go for the bananas any more
but no one remembers why.
;)


Kind of reminds me of the famous goose that laid the golden eggs.



Today at 0.000032  BTC, we're at a price that we haven't seen since the first few weeks BTSX was launched.

BitAssets are absolutely groundbreaking though.

1258
General Discussion / Re: Removing BTS inflation after July
« on: March 10, 2015, 01:51:59 am »

How does BTC deal with the inflation PR issue? Do people just accept it or are they too looking for an inactivity fee or other solution? I don't keep up with Bitcoin anymore so not sure how they field their inflation detractors.

Delegate pay = Mining - meaningless hashing.

The distinction between Assets and BTS is clear to us but not to the masses. They'll just see, "Hold that Bitshares coin for too long and you'll lose all your money to fees".

Regards the masses, NuBits holders probably know very little about what is required from NuShares holders. People with savings accounts probably know very little about what's required from the shareholders who own that bank.

BTC have less of an inflation PR issue because they've stuck since inception to the inflation rules on which they were founded. BTC holders also have a great deal of certainty & trust that there will only be 21 million Bitcoins. BTS on the other hand changed it's inflation rules which was possibly a key reason that it lost most of it's market value & community. It's quite remarkable that BTS is on a 5 month BTC downtrend despite only being alive for seven months.

Also because of voter apathy only 7.82% of BTS is required to elect a delegates & according to http://bitsharesblocks.com/genesis-btsx that amount could be easily controlled by a small group of accounts.

So measures that address inflation and voter apathy may be worth discussing but I don't think there's much appetite for it as most of those BTSX shareholders have already left leaving this minority value fork with people who have been funnelled to mostly share your POV about inflation.


1259
General Discussion / Re: Removing BTS inflation after July
« on: March 09, 2015, 04:23:03 pm »
Regarding the inactivity fee:

A penalty only on shares that have never been claimed might work. (Given plenty of time for the remaining people to claim them). 
Once the shares are claimed, ever, I dont think there should be any more inactivity fees after that.

I don't think it would be sufficient to remove the need for inflation and it doesn't incentivise current BTS shareholders to vote but that could be an option and I did a poll on that back in the day - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9950.0



1260
General Discussion / Re: Removing BTS inflation after July
« on: March 09, 2015, 04:10:13 pm »
Dont add negative reenforcement for inactivity... But positive one will be more beneficial

I think inflation is even more negative for BTS shareholders and marketing BTS and BitAssets.

So for me it's a question of whether BTS shareholders prefer an annual inflation tax that dilutes them by circa 2% a year or do they prefer a tax they can completely avoid just by voting once per year? (And which doesn't effect BitAsset holders at all.)

It also helps  address 2 big problems...

1. Voter Apathy            (You will vote to avoid the fee)
2. BitAsset Adoption   (People will hold BitAssets more with higher yield.)

BitShares possibly gets to become a No Inflation, Profitable DAC again which is more attractive to shareholders and as a backing for people holding BitAssets imo.


Pages: 1 ... 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 [84] 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92