Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Empirical1.1

Pages: 1 ... 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 [58] 59
856
General Discussion / Re: Failure to peg currencies to USD?
« on: September 03, 2014, 04:46:19 pm »
Quote from: GaltReport on September 03, 2014, 04:43:51 pm
Quote from: emski on September 03, 2014, 04:40:57 pm
Quote from: GaltReport on September 03, 2014, 04:37:07 pm
In addition to a reasonable price, people who buy BitUSD need to know that they can sell it.  If the marketplace in BitShares is so bullish on BTSX, I am concerned that people who by BitUSD won't be able to sell it.  Are they planning on implementing any sort of market maker that will buy BitUSD from seller at it's current peg?

It is being discussed extensively. However such market maker requires capital or dilution. Dilution is out of the question (my impression). Question for capital is - who will provide it. So currently (as I understand it) the answer is "no market maker".

I'm glad it's being discussed because as a potential buyer of BitUSD, it would be a big concern.  It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

As a potential buyer of BitUSD would you be more likely to buy if you were earning interest daily on holding your BitAsset?

That is what I'd like to see introduced.

857
General Discussion / Re: Failure to peg currencies to USD?
« on: September 03, 2014, 04:42:42 pm »
Quote from: GaltReport on September 03, 2014, 04:37:07 pm
Quote from: emski on September 03, 2014, 04:23:52 pm
Any bitUSD is trapped inside the blockchain. It cannot leave (read transform into BTSX) unless 90% of USD value is paid (in BTSX).

In the examples you state "governments" tried to purchase huge amounts of USD. Here there is no such thing. bitUSD is traded (at least) at 90% of USD value (based on feeds).

In this form it will either work as intended or trade will stop. It is an experiment after all.

In addition to a reasonable price, people who buy BitUSD need to know that they can sell it.  If the marketplace in BitShares is so bullish on BTSX, I am concerned that people who by BitUSD won't be able to sell it.  Are they planning on implementing any sort of market maker that will buy BitUSD from seller at it's current peg?

There's an option to introduce a market maker with relatively little risk that guarantees a price within 10% of the peg. Agent86 and others feel that is not needed and independent market makers will step in to provide this service at a much tighter range is my understanding.

858
General Discussion / Re: WE'RE HIRING! BitShares is now looking for web developers. Apply here.
« on: September 03, 2014, 04:32:37 pm »
I'll throw my name in the hat

Resume:

-7 years+ mouse advanced (various types)

Incl. left/right & double click
Also capable of navigating two screens with just one mouse

-Can safely eject removable USB storage things.

- 'ctrl+alt+delete' experience  & can also hold the power button down to make it turn off in an emergency.

859
General Discussion / Re: Failure to peg currencies to USD?
« on: September 03, 2014, 04:24:43 pm »
At it's simplest level it's because it's backed by enough collateral of something else that has value.

As an extreme example if you wanted to store the value of a dollar and someone agreed to back it up with a big bar of gold then it's not rocket science to understand that the bar of gold can always be used to get you your dollar's worth of value out.

In our system people are backing up the value with a lot of BTSX as collateral by shorting.
The reason they are willing to do this is because it gives bulls more exposure to the success of BTSX.

So we have a market of people that want to store the value of things and people willing to provide a lot of collateral to ensure that value can be safely stored.

I still think the current system needs interest, but that's another story...

860
General Discussion / When will there be interest on BitAssets?
« on: September 03, 2014, 03:00:31 pm »
BTSX is a virtual vault for storing value via BitAssets

The virtual vault is currently risky, people need to be compensated for that risk.

How? Interest on their BitAssets

(BTSX holders don't need to be compensated for the risk because they get the reward from BTSX doing well)

We have an attempt from Shentist here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8047.msg107361#msg107361
Gulu here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7865.msg104117#msg104117

I am very excited about 4.11 because

Quote from: bytemaster on September 02, 2014, 09:55:50 pm

2) Shorts can sell at up to 10% below the peg *if* there are offers to buy above the peg.  The difference is captured as fees, gives priority to shorts willing to pay the highest fee.

That difference captured as fees gives you the pot that can be distributed to all BitAsset holders as interest and in so doing create the market. (I presume because of TITAN this is not easy to do.)

My question is does anyone know what the current plans are with regards to introducing interest into the system?

To BM, if you have the time - Do you currently feel that interest may not be necessary/not easy to implement and want to give the system a chance without it or do you guys recognise that interest is required and you are thinking how best to approach it?

Thanks.

Edit: Assuming 2 identical systems except system A didn't redistribute the captured fees from (2) above as interest to BitAsset holders and system B did.

Would someone looking to store their value in BitAssets choose system A or system B?

BitAsset holders would choose system B so there would be no demand for BitAssets in System A, assuming they are otherwise identical, ergo that interest should go to BitAsset holders if possible imo.

(I also don't feel it will effect the peg as banks & exchanges such as bter all offer interest and the level of interest attracts capital. The interest we can afford to pay seems to be defined by (2).)

861
General Discussion / Re: 0.4.11 Release Candidate Testing
« on: September 03, 2014, 03:28:08 am »
Quote from: bytemaster on September 02, 2014, 09:55:50 pm
2) Shorts can sell at up to 10% below the peg *if* there are offers to buy above the peg.  The difference is captured as fees, gives priority to shorts willing to pay the highest fee.

Is it possible and if so what do you think of the idea of - the accumulated fees that are captured from (2) being redistributed evenly as interest to BitAsset holders based on their current holdings.


Edit So while BTSX holders get the current daily burn.

(2) goes only to BitAsset holders somehow as daily interest.
(Display daily & current annualised rate on wallet opening. Considering shorting demand this interest rate will be considerable.)

Many crypto exchanges offer daily interest like bter. It shouldn't effect the peg but will maximise demand for BitAssets.

This + stable wallet = great wealth  8) 8) 8)






862
General Discussion / Re: How to start the market of bitUSD please read *EVERYONE*
« on: September 03, 2014, 12:37:42 am »
Yes sorry, I'm new to trading, thanks for explanation, I used arbitrage wrong.

It doesn't help establish peg though. If there are 10x more people that want to short than want to own BitAssets then it will trade below the peg.

Edit: Unless you do what they do now. Even better if they introduce interest to attract demand for owning BitAssets

863
General Discussion / Re: How to start the market of bitUSD please read *EVERYONE*
« on: September 03, 2014, 12:26:38 am »
Quote from: okidoki on September 03, 2014, 12:13:55 am
Quote from: oasis on September 03, 2014, 12:08:57 am
Quote from: okidoki on September 03, 2014, 12:01:38 am
The only problem is, that by halting the market bytemaster is making the shareprice go down... which is shitty for investors... I know that bytemaster is brilliant in many ways... I am simply disappointed that he thinks regulation helps to make the market move where he wants it to be...

I think your stuff is wrong.

The problem is there are consistently more shorts than longs.

So at 0.9 you weren't underpaying for a BitUSD you were paying the likely average price even 3 months from now.

Traders would not make it trade closer to the peg they would only tighten up that $0.85-0.95 trading range

Introducing the price feed that limits shorts (or a collateral system) does help the peg.

The problem is that there is very little demand @1-1  (I.e a dead market hence the need for interest.)

Sorry oasis... it does not work like this... I can make money if I buy at 0.85. Because doing the arbitrage costs money... especially in a still illiquid market. the more liquid it gets, the less it costs me, the less spread is needed, until it is exactly 1:1 in a superliquid market with small bid/ask spreads and low exchange commissions. But if you do not allow the market to start working you kill it like now.

The market worked just fine in the beginning... but by putting in these childish regulations now you do not have a market anymore, until you get rid of this government/regulation stuff... The good thing is that bytemaster, our governor, can simply get rid of this regulation stuff and make the market free again. If he does not do it, he will kill this project he worked so hard for.

Yes before you could make money buying @ 0.85 and selling at 0.95 even up to 1-1, so there were trading & arbitrage opportunities but because of the big orange wall on the right and the small green wall on the left, BitAssets will trade below the peg for a long time and if the peg isn't established then the system may not work.

In the new current system you can still make money by arbitrage, because it only limits shorting below the peg I think? But people can still buy and sell at different prices once BitUSD is created.

I agree that it creates a very small market now but I don't think old way was solution.
Solution is offering interest at 1-1 then many buyers, big market.

864
General Discussion / Re: How to start the market of bitUSD please read *EVERYONE*
« on: September 03, 2014, 12:08:57 am »
Quote from: okidoki on September 03, 2014, 12:01:38 am
The only problem is, that by halting the market bytemaster is making the shareprice go down... which is shitty for investors... I know that bytemaster is brilliant in many ways... I am simply disappointed that he thinks regulation helps to make the market move where he wants it to be...

I think your stuff is wrong.

The problem is there are consistently more shorts than longs.

So at 0.9 you weren't underpaying for a BitUSD you were paying the likely average price even 3 months from now.

Traders would not make it trade closer to the peg they would only tighten up that $0.85-0.95 trading range

Introducing the price feed that limits shorts (or a collateral system) does help the peg.

The problem is that there is very little demand @1-1  (I.e a dead market hence the need for interest.)

865
General Discussion / Re: How to start the market of bitUSD please read *EVERYONE*
« on: September 02, 2014, 11:28:14 pm »
Quote from: oasis on September 02, 2014, 10:53:00 pm
Quote from: biophil on September 02, 2014, 10:16:08 pm
Quote from: oco101 on September 02, 2014, 10:05:13 pm
Before the median price was introduced, the pegging was doing fine but there was a danger that  bitUSD will lose track of the USD and then the whole Bitsharex it will not work.
Now the  bitUSD is not in danger of not tracking USD but the market is dead.
I rather preferred the peg to track and in no  danger!!!  Let see with the GUI changes then I suspect you'll not see that many short out of range, and much more trading happening.

Agree! It seems like peoples' best argument for getting rid of the price feeds is that it was more fun the other way. More fun? Really? If you want fun playing with money you should hit the local casino. Fun doesn't equate to robust financial system.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

This isn't going to create a robust financial system.

I prefer the price feed but you still need to stimulate BitAsset creation around the peg with delayed fees/interest.

A bitUSD currently simply isn't worth 1-1 (system risk + utility friction)it's like trying to sell a $10 umbrella for $20. You now have a queue of people waiting to see if anyone will be dumb enough to overpay for an umbrella. There won't be many customers, except maybe on a very rainy day.

It's like Argentina trying to define the exchange rate for the Peso to the dollar. When you try to force it that way you strangle the market and the free market simply moves to the black market where Peso & dollar holders  find the true exchange level. (In our case it will ultimately be a competitor using interest/delayed fees to match buyers with sellers around the peg.)

Interest or delayed fees are required.

Another way to look at is to think of BTSX as a virtual vault.

If the vault is very safe you may pay for the privilege of storing your assets there.
However if the vault is new and risky, with high fees they're going to have to pay you interest to attract your money, we're still at the risky stage now plus there's a 1/2% fee to exchange BitAssets to fiat.

The absolutely fantastic news is we have shorts more than willing to pay amazing interest to attract deposits into BitAssets!!!

The question is what is the best way to introduce interest into the system.

(Another analogy... The people storing BitAssets are the customers. BTSX holders are the virtual vault owners. BTSX holders get the reward of the virtual vaults success. All the BitAsset holders get is the riskiest place in the world to store value for the next 3-6 months. They need to be compensated for the risk.)

866
General Discussion / Re: How to start the market of bitUSD please read *EVERYONE*
« on: September 02, 2014, 10:53:00 pm »
Quote from: biophil on September 02, 2014, 10:16:08 pm
Quote from: oco101 on September 02, 2014, 10:05:13 pm
Before the median price was introduced, the pegging was doing fine but there was a danger that  bitUSD will lose track of the USD and then the whole Bitsharex it will not work.
Now the  bitUSD is not in danger of not tracking USD but the market is dead.
I rather preferred the peg to track and in no  danger!!!  Let see with the GUI changes then I suspect you'll not see that many short out of range, and much more trading happening.

Agree! It seems like peoples' best argument for getting rid of the price feeds is that it was more fun the other way. More fun? Really? If you want fun playing with money you should hit the local casino. Fun doesn't equate to robust financial system.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

This isn't going to create a robust financial system.

I prefer the price feed but you still need to stimulate BitAsset creation around the peg with delayed fees/interest.

A bitUSD currently simply isn't worth 1-1 (system risk + utility friction)it's like trying to sell a $10 umbrella for $20. You now have a queue of people waiting to see if anyone will be dumb enough to overpay for an umbrella. There won't be many customers, except maybe on a very rainy day.

It's like Argentina trying to define the exchange rate for the Peso to the dollar. When you try to force it that way you strangle the market and the free market simply moves to the black market where Peso & dollar holders  find the true exchange level. (In our case it will ultimately be a competitor using interest/delayed fees to match buyers with sellers around the peg.)

Interest or delayed fees are required.

867
General Discussion / Re: A New Proposal of Interest for BitUSD Holders
« on: September 02, 2014, 07:10:23 pm »
I like your proposal.

Edit: But why don't we bring money into our system the way treasuries bring money into theirs?

This is my understanding of how BitUSD would be brought into use for a treasury in the real world..

Bonds are sold at auction by the treasury (the auction decides the interest rate)

In our case the shorts would be the treasury but unlike an overly indebted country we know the shorts are good for the interest because of the collateral requirements.

Kind of like this video up to 1:20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3_Q1SiRN-A

Why don't we bring BitAssets into existence similar to the way bonds are done (Excl. central banks and fractional reserve banking.) It seems to work so why re-invent the wheel. I don't understand enough though to figure out exactly how to cross apply it to BitAssets.

868
General Discussion / Re: Support BitUSD Price by Forced Covering at a Profit
« on: September 02, 2014, 05:21:19 pm »
Quote from: eagleeye on September 02, 2014, 05:13:14 pm
Quote from: Empirical1 on August 31, 2014, 09:32:54 pm
Quote
Now all Alice has to do is wait and Bob will buy it back for $1...  This is because due to price movement one of two things will happen:

But what if she doesn't want to wait and what if she has a large volume that the market can't support in times of low liquidity. We want those kind of buyers to enter the market no?

Quote from: puvar on August 31, 2014, 09:17:35 pm
So it looks like a double punishment for shorters. The imminent consequence of this is fewer people willing to short, and as a result slower growth of BitUSD supply.

There seem to be long queues of people willing to short. The growth of BitAssets in the short to medium term seems like it will be determined  by how appealing it is to the people going long BitAssets.

In the bitsharesx platform is there a part of the Interface that shows people wanting to want to go short?  Or do we have no one wanting to do this yet?  I cant see it in yet but I could be blind (please laugh).

I'm on my phone but if you have a BTSX wallet and click on the 'markets' and choose say BitUSD you will see an image on the left is people wanting to buy on the right is people wanting to short or sell.

The right side is very big. They are saying 'please let me short, I will pay money' then there is a very small green side on the left. They are saying 'it is too risky to go long, if you pay me, maybe'

I think we are going to make no-one short below 1-1 this will work but there will be very little demand on the long side. We need to find a way for the people on the right to pay the people on the left at 1-1
then you have a big market.

869
General Discussion / Re: Support BitUSD Price by Forced Covering at a Profit
« on: September 02, 2014, 05:01:12 pm »
@ Shentist I don't understand your solution, I will try understand later, but yes the market is there waiting to explode.

There are a queue of people wanting to short BitAssets at fair market price around the peg. (Shorts want to support the peg.) We need to find a very simple mechanism to find that fair market price that supports the peg too.



870
General Discussion / Re: First Worldwide BitShares Delegates Election Week (15-21 September 2014)
« on: September 02, 2014, 04:52:22 pm »
 +5% Seems like a great idea.

At the moment BM & team seem to be able to choose delegates at will. This is actually good because a lot of work needs to be done short term but obviously this is not the ideal situation going forward.

I know nothing about coding etc. but I would think they would need at least 3/4 weeks with that capacity??

Ergo I would think the voting week should start maybe 1st of October with a real community push to get people voting and see how much stake we can get in play (Incl. removing BTSX from exchanges.)

Pages: 1 ... 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 [58] 59

Page created in 0.155 seconds with 17 queries.