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Messages - amatoB

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31
KeyID / Re: .p2p auction parameter discussion
« on: July 01, 2014, 04:10:10 am »

There's another discussion to be had about whether to limit the number of concurrent auctions near the start when it is not clear that the .p2p namespace is worth anything at all, and whether to keep it limited to some larger number once it is just to make it so that humans can go through and evaluate all the domains for sale at a given time.

Yes, it's probably a good idea to regulate the flow of auctions to some extent, especially early on. This would help prevent the problem whereby quality names fall through the cracks, are scooped up for dirt cheap, and then squatted on. After all, people are boundedly rational, and they have limited attention and search capabilities.

32
https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/06/30/advanced-contract-programming-example-schellingcoin/

Does not completely nail the market peg concept but there are many variations on the idea that are all viable to some extent.
We need BitUSD trading and pegged ASAP!

not ASAP... but BTO* !!!

*Before The Others


Actually, WBTO  (Well Before the Others)

33
KeyID / Re: .p2p auction parameter discussion
« on: June 30, 2014, 12:57:14 am »
You're missing the fact that you can sell the names off-chain for any price. Since that is possible you mught as well let them do it on-chain for the chance of getting at least something for the network.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Is this true? There's really no way to prevent or deter off-chain sales?Then why would a holder ever sell on-chain and give up a fraction of profit to shareholders? Why not run a private off-chain sale or auction and capture all of the rents?

34
KeyID / Re: .p2p auction parameter discussion
« on: June 30, 2014, 12:34:29 am »
Apparently, the proceeds from a resale are largely captured by the network, not by the holder who puts a name back on auction (is this accurate?)

A seller can start an auction at whatever price, and will get at least that much (+ kickback ratio * difference). The rest will go to network (dividend ratio on all subsequent bids). Otherwise all sales would be off-market, which would stop us from capturing potential income from bidders the original seller didn't know about.

Why give the holder all the rents from the starting price of the re-sale auction? Doesn't that make the squatting problem much worse by giving a squatter too much profit from resale, even if they are not using the name for any productive purpose?

Why not make the winning bid a yearly price of renewing the lease? If a nameholder fails to pay the yearly price, the name automatically goes back to a regular auction at a low price, or goes back to the pool of available names.

Granted, this might not prevent the blackmail/ransom type of squatting problem where a squatter tries to extort private payments (which might need to be addressed by legal remedies).

But, at least giving most of the re-sale starting price to the network--not to the re-seller--would address the more innocuous type of "squatting" under which you passively hold a name fallow in the hopes of getting an offer. And the resale auction would still give most fees to the network/shareholders. Or am I missing something?

35
KeyID / Re: .p2p auction parameter discussion
« on: June 29, 2014, 11:19:44 pm »
Potential cyber-squatting seems like an important issue to consider. If I understand correctly, the proposed system solves it to some degree.

Apparently, the proceeds from a resale are largely captured by the network, not by the holder who puts a name back on auction (is this accurate?) So, the proposed system is sort of like a lease. For example, a name might be worth 500, but if a potential cybersquatter can only personally get 100 from putting it on auction later, then they have much less to gain from squatting in the first place. It's a rather clever system, the effectiveness of which will depend on the parameter choices. A lot of thought and tweaking will probably be needed to choose the best implementation of the basic idea to get the economics right.

Having said that, I think the system as proposed doesn't completely eliminate bad behavior. For example, someone might lock up a name to harm a competitor, celebrity, or wealthy person, and then demand a public or private ransom in order to release the name back onto the market. Unless there are private rights of action like the ability to sue for cybersquatting, how would such behavior be checked under the proposed system? Combining the new auction system with term limits on right of usage might be a good idea. The winning bid could be a per-year lease rate, for example.

The kick-backs are a clever and essential feature, though. They directly reward value-finders and shareholders, and they help facilitate price discovery in a world of costly search and costly information.

36
KeyID / Re: .p2p auction parameter discussion
« on: June 29, 2014, 09:07:04 pm »

*  R needs to be high enough to realistically motivate people to bid as high as they would be willing to pay right form the start.

Why is this necessary? In practice (e.g., like on EBay), short auction times can be a powerful motivator to get people to bid at or near their valuations. Couldn't setting R high (to motivate people to bid their true value right from the start) exclude speculators and hinder price discovery? Some auctions might not start at all, with the names sitting idle...

The purpose of R is to get information out of people who are willing to bet the domain should be worth more but don't want to actually hold it.

Your second point doesn't make sense... if R is high and people are motivated to bid the true value right from the start isn't that the opposite hindering price discovery or having auctions not start at all?

In some cases, people may be uncertain of the value; they might need to combine their own information/beliefs with information in the marketplace, i.e., what they observe in the market from bidding action and such. Maybe that's why you sometimes see EBay auctions with low starting prices actually end up higher than identical items with much higher starting bid minimums. Bidder irrationality and psychology are also factors to consider.

I'm just thinking that there might be a tradeoff in R. People are naturally drawn to bidding action (for rational and irrational reasons). Too high of an R value might dissuade some speculative bidders from dipping a toe in the water.

37
KeyID / Re: .p2p auction parameter discussion
« on: June 29, 2014, 08:43:19 pm »

*  R needs to be high enough to realistically motivate people to bid as high as they would be willing to pay right form the start.

Why is this necessary? In practice (e.g., like on EBay), short auction times can be a powerful motivator to get people to bid at or near their valuations. Couldn't setting R high (to motivate people to bid their true value right from the start) exclude speculators and hinder price discovery? Some auctions might not start at all, with the names sitting idle...

38
KeyID / Re: .p2p auction parameter discussion
« on: June 29, 2014, 08:23:03 pm »
Help me reason through these incentives.

There are two critical parameters at play, let's call them R (above 0) and D (between 0 and 1).

The rules for an auction are:
1) The initial required bid is 0.
2) Your required_bid is equal to (previous_bid + (R*(previous_bid - previous_required_bid))
3) When you place a bid, (D*(your_bid - previous_bid)) goes to dividends and (previous+bid + (1 - D)*(your_bid - previous_bid)) goes to dividends.


An example: suppose R = 1 and D = 0.5

Brand new auction.
I bid 100. My required bid was 0, so the next person must bid 200.   (100 goes to dividends as there is no previous bidder)
Next person bids 210. His required bid was 200, so next required bid is 220.  (Previous bidder gets 150, 50 goes to dividends)
Next person bids 300. His required bid was 220, so next required bid is 380.  (Previous bidder gets  255, 45 goes to dividends).


Thoughts:
*  R needs to be high enough to realistically motivate people to bid as high as they would be willing to pay right form the start. I'm thinking this might happen even with a value less than 1.
*  D needs to be low enough to motivate people to call people out on low bids, but high enough to make outbidding yourself not worth it (extra price buffer more worthwhile than money you save from your own kickback).

I'm not sure I fully understand the incentives, but my quick impression is that R should not be too large.

At some point, a high R will dissuade a new bidder from joining in (because the increment to the next required bid amount overshoots their valuation). Anticipating this, a speculator might believe that he won't recoup his expenses and may be wary of bidding in the first place. Then the whole market could unravel...

39
But I do think we should reward genuine pioneers, risk takers, and people who show real interest in PoS. People who just want to mine but who don't care about whether or not it's centralizing, or whether or not it's promoting technological progress, why reward that?
+NXT -- innovative / new blockchain tech / decentralized asset exchange
+Monero -- innovative / new bc / new signature scheme
+Peercoin -- innovative / first pos altough still minable :(
+Blackcoin -- first(?) PoS-only (not so much innovation)

Maybe we should build a compilation of pro/cons for each coin



Just approach each community with the same 50/50 split deal. The communities which accept our conditions of a 50/50 equity split would be given priority. If they don't accept then we'd do it anyway and let them respond.

Immediately when Bitshares is released we should systematically approach or  re-approach certain communities with the offer. In the background do it anyway and then try our best to get support of the community because marketing requires it. I'm not with the idea of rewarding previous winners unless those winners continue to have a lot of shares in innovative technological blockchains. Just as science doesn't doesn't give prizes over and over again to the same idea neither should we.


I may try to give more detailed comments in a few days, but, in brief, we need to consider the costs to such a strategy and also better articulate exactly what would be the benefits of such a move.

Offering such deals to different communities, in my opinion, would be a big mistake. The problem is that if deals are not offered to every community, or even to every POS-related community, that would create ill will and jealousy. This is just human nature: people want to belong and be accepted. The haves will be looked upon with resentment by the have-nots. Also, this move may cheapen the bitshares image forever. It wouldn't build true loyalty of the beneficiaries of the deal, who might just dump the shares and continue with what they had before. Then you have a much bigger supply of DPOS trading units floating around, and a stagnant share price. Finally, Bitshares would be seen as trying too hard to colonize other cryptocurrencies. People might wonder, why does bitshares have to try so hard to win approval? Is there something wrong with it?

If you don't believe this, just imagine what you'd think if you heard that NXT was trying to openly or secretly broker 50/50 deals to convert Peercoin, Blackcoin, Monero, to their technology, but NOT bitshares. And what if you heard that they converted these coins anyways despite the objections of the BlackCoin community. How would that affect your perception of nxt?

I think if marketing and brand awareness are the goal, then the best strategies would include a combination of the following: (1) Building a great product with continual high-quality development and support, leading to a consistently-rising share price; (2) More presence on Bitcointalk forum, with some knowledgeable posters to evangelize and answer questions (this is a gaping hole at the moment--the awareness of Bitshares on the bitcoin forum is very weak). (3) Targeted drops by the individual DACs, pre-loaded wallets, viral distribution strategies, etc. But these must be targeted drops and not 50/50 deals that try to "colonize" existing coins to the DPOS protocol; (4) Buzz in the media, nice websites, great conferences, etc. But (1) is the key, as it makes all the others more effective. If Bitshares can get anywhere close to the investor interest that Bitcoin has, it will have succeeded.


40
Yes, I think 'shares' might be troublesome. Even 'notes' has a legal connotation, though it's more of a civil law term, so probably less of interest to the government than to private parties (such as promissory notes, which are often called notes). For better or for worse, I think we should stick to 'play money' terms until regulations become clearer. The ideal terms would be some happy mixture of descriptive (e.g. coins) and fun (e.g. chips).

I do like 'slices'. Some other cool synonyms: chunks, doses, drags, bites, plums, whacks, rations, fragments, scraps, shreds, portions, atoms, flakes, slivers, drops, splinters, snippets, morsels, snatches. I'd like to buy some snatches, please.

For more playful terms (for 'shares' or artist-issued assets), how about jangles, jams, bling, skins, assets, dinero, hoohas, wampum, gravy, bread, scratch, chips, chords, riches...

Then there are the traditional 'coin' alternatives: bucks, bullion, reserves, mints, etc.

The concept of 'building blocks' might offer another metaphor: units, blocks, frames, bricks, parts, etc.


How about "vibes" for artist-issued assets? That seems to go well with Arabic numbers (Artist X's ranking increased today by +100,000 vibes... list of top movers for the day and the week, etc.). The term 'vibe' also has at least some connection with the whole music theme of the DAC.

On a side topic--if using the word "share" is problematic from a regulatory perspective, maybe "stake" or "claim" would be better. Users would probably be more excited if the language makes it clear that they're participating financially as stakeholders and can "buy in" and "cash out" sometime in the future. On the website they can be given options to "buy a stake", "sell a stake", etc. Also, instead of using the byline "Own your share", perhaps "Stake your claim" or "Claim your stake" would cause fewer regulatory problems?

The interview with Eddie and cob was really good stuff, quite heartening and informative. Can't wait to see the website...

41
Muse/SoundDAC / Re: Website name. Brainstorming
« on: June 04, 2014, 03:18:58 am »
CloudVibe would be excellent. It looks like www.cloudvibe.com is available for a couple thousand dollars...

42
General Discussion / Re: Mid May.Future?
« on: May 14, 2014, 06:03:20 am »
It's my hope that Bitshares XT and at least 1 or 2 other DACs will be launched and fully tested/debugged well before the Beyond Bitcoin conference in early July. That way, some Bitshares flagship DACs can be marketed in the lead-up to the conference. Even better if Bitshares X will have been launched by then, but that may be asking for a lot...

It'd be a shame not to use this giant, upcoming opportunity to showcase some things!

43
Muse/SoundDAC / Re: Website name. Brainstorming
« on: May 04, 2014, 03:20:33 pm »
How about simply "Melo", the first part of the Greek and Latin words for song?

I still think "Songster" may offer the best opportunities. But "Melo" is short and memorable, and it could be a good name if no other music biz website is using it.

44
Muse/SoundDAC / Re: Website name. Brainstorming
« on: May 04, 2014, 05:01:44 am »
Just out of curiosity, why do you say that "Songster" is too derivative? Yes, the 2nd syllable rhymes with Napster. Again, though, "Songster" is a real word, not a made-up word, so its partial rhyming with other names shouldn't be a deal-breaker. If rhyming makes a word too derivative, then, by that standard, nearly all of the names suggested so far should be ruled out, including "ear2ear", which rhymes with things like "peer-to-peer".

Actually I think "ear2ear" could be effective, but one possible issue is that a lot of businesses and websites are already using it, far more than are using "songster".

Do a Google search and you'll find not only a website selling hearing aids, but also quite a few music-related sites and musicians' online IDs. Perhaps using "ear2ear" may be ok if Bitshares can carve out a sufficiently unique niche. But "ear2ear" could also make trademark infringement allegations against Bitshares more likely.

45
Muse/SoundDAC / Re: Website name. Brainstorming
« on: May 03, 2014, 07:50:39 pm »
We all know it's going to be super important to have a good name for the front end of Bitshares Music. The right name can mean the difference between smashing success and disappointing failure.

So, I'd like to put a plug in for one of the names that was proposed earlier: Songster.

In my opinion, "Songster" provides one of the best opportunities at the current time. It seems to have a number of strengths and few, if any, weaknesses:

1. It's short (only 8 letters, 2 syllables) and easy to say, remember, and spell. In addition, it's a bona fide word in the English dictionary.

2. It's kind of hip and is evocative of names like "Friendster" (the original social network), "napster", and "monster".

3. It has a crystal-clear association with music--no guesswork required. Also, the name makes sense to non-geeks who've never heard of Bitcoin or Bitshares.

4. The name is broad and inclusive--it doesn't just cater to a specialized subset of music types or artist types.

5. The name seems to be available for business use by Bitshares Music, according to the US Patent and Trademark site (but I'm no attorney, so take this statement w/ a grain of salt).

6. The name also seems to have a lot of marketing possibilities within the Bitshares model. It can give the website users a sense of self-empowerment and allow them to identify themselves with the business model.
"Be an Artist. Be an Owner/Promoter. Be a Songster."
"Listen. Record. Share. Earn."
Why spend many $000s or millions marketing an esoteric name when a name like "Songster" lends itself to so many marketing possibilities?

So, in my view the name "Songster" seems like an obviously good choice and a potential slam dunk/home run. Not wanting to slight all the other good suggestions in this thread, but I like it better than any of the others and strongly encourage Eddie, cob, and the BTS Music community to consider it. To the community: What do you think are the drawbacks, if any, to this name? Please share your thoughts.

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