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Messages - amatoB

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1
Here's the corresponding press released mentioned above:

http://www.pressadvantage.com/story/3298-peer-tracks-announces-new-music-site-that-runs-on-cryptonomex-blockchain-technology

Excellent article w/ top-notch content. Unfortunately, the writing has quite a few typos and grammatical issues. I really hope they can hire a good PR professional soon.

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Muse/SoundDAC / NOTE trading symbol taken?
« on: November 01, 2014, 08:52:11 pm »
Just saw on Coinmarketcap something called "DNote", which apparently has the trading symbol "NOTE". Bummer--I wouldn't be surprised if this was done on purpose to preempt Music. Does this mean that Bitshares music will now have to choose a different symbol?

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Muse/SoundDAC / Re: How can Notes pre-sale activity be improved?
« on: October 26, 2014, 03:41:21 pm »
Well, by "dirt cheap" I mean that, with a current daily purchase rate of 25 BTC, each note is priced at approximately (25*$350)/5,000,000 = $0.00175. This values the total Note supply at about $2.6 million.

Compare this with the valuations of traditional music services like Spotify, Pandora, Beats, etc. (which provide less functionality than Peertracks/Notes will be able to), and then you'll begin to get some idea of the potential...

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Muse/SoundDAC / How can Notes pre-sale activity be improved?
« on: October 25, 2014, 09:17:37 pm »
Is it just me, or is the pre-sale activity for Notes surprisingly weak? I would've expected buying to ramp up by now given the interviews and the online banner ads on Coinmarketcap. I guess what we need is more word-of-mouth and awareness on Bitcoin-centric forums. Since pre-sale Notes cannot be purchased with altcoins, only with BTC, maybe Coinmarketcap is not the best place for banner ads. Maybe Bitcointalk would be better.

Being able to buy Notes at dirt-cheap prices right now is cool, but more buying would ultimately be better for AGS and PTS because that would give Peertracks more funds to work with. After all, the more BTC that Peertracks can raise now, the less likely they'll need to resort to dilution later to obtain funding.

So, AGS and PTS holders, this is a call to arms... we're the main stakeholders in this. We can help by buying Notes ourselves or spreading awareness on Bitcointalk and other Bitcoin forums. What we need is a sustained effort lasting through the pre-sale period. Let's pave the way for a successful Bitshares Music rocket-ride to the moon and beyond!

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Muse/SoundDAC / Re: BitShares Music and/or NOTE logo. Any ideas?
« on: October 25, 2014, 08:41:56 pm »
I just noticed the ProtoShares logo works well as a small icon and could be mistaken for a musical notation..



If we're not using it for PTS perhaps it could get a new life as Note logo? It would work well being recoloured and even would support mutilple colours if that is useful.

 +5%



interesting!


Interesting idea, looks promising. It might be even better if the design has a direct connection to the music/Note theme. Can the p/d shape be modified to look more like either an 'N' or a note?


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1) PTS equals all future projects... which is a VERY LONG time horizon and will now be focused on BTSX.   Making the allocation to PTS liquid would be like giving PTS holders an out without having to wait for the respective DACs to be built out over the next 2 years.   
2) PTS was supposed to be for "future DACS"... it is being given credit for past DACs as part of this deal.
3) Anyone who wants to have liquidity can buy from those willing to give it up between now and Nov. 5th.   The result is that as part of the merger many people (including the large Dev fund) are taking a long-term vested interest in things.   Do you really want Toast, Adam, and I to have instant access to a large percentage of all new funds or do you want us vesting with a long time horizon? 

So right now the market for liquidity is taking place and BTS is gaining a large number of people who are committed for the next 2 years to the project while losing those in it for the short run.

Bytemaster, lock-ups certainly do exist for real-world corporations, but they typically only apply to insiders. Why can't Bitshares have a lock-up just for the devs? Wouldn't that foster long-term vested interests without punishing other holders?

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General Discussion / Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« on: October 21, 2014, 04:38:26 pm »
Bytemaster, the 2-year vesting period is not good--it's too restrictive and will unnecessarily harm everyone by imposing more risk on people's portfolios. Also, AGS, PTS should get 10% each as they don't have a seat at the negotiating table.

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General Discussion / Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« on: October 19, 2014, 09:00:52 pm »
@AmatoB @luckybit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law


We are not talking about a social communications network (to which Metcalfe's Law applies) where the number of bilateral connections determine value. We are talking about achieving a network effect. If Metcalfe's Law were applicable across the board, then why do we have separate Eastern and Western Bitshares marketing teams? Why do we have separate teams working on DNS, Music, and Play?

Achieving a network effect can be done with two separate chains, perhaps in some cases just as well or even better than with one chain.

Read this weekend's discussions about whether having one bitUSD or many BitUSDs is better.


Yes, will definitely try to read up on that. I'm not sure if it's discussed therein, but would it be possible to have a single BitUSD and cross-chain trading across separate chains? That would seem to be the most powerful model. With cross-chain exchange, even DACs with their own chains (e.g., Music, Play) could help support liquidity and the BitUSD peg.

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General Discussion / Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« on: October 19, 2014, 08:39:37 pm »







Quote
But can both of these not be accomplished without a full-blown merger? I think the question in some people's minds is, what was wrong with the previous plan that would have given a bigger role to VOTE but would not involve a merger? Why the abrupt pivot away from that plan? Using a separate chain to help achieve network effects would be more conservative in that it would help contain the risks associated with unexpected outcomes.

"what was wrong with the previous plan that would have given a bigger role to VOTE but would not involve a merger?   <- Fragmentation.

Quote
Contingency planning seems like a good idea in this rapidly-evolving space. What happens if the "secret sauce" plan doesn't quite succeed as expected (after all, Bytemaster conceded that there is a chance it wouldn't work)? A merger with dilution of Bitshares is like "betting the ranch" or going for broke. It assumes that (a) the network strategy will succeed and (b) a dilutable share base will not somehow become a disadvantage relative to other coins with fixed share base, i.e., Bitcoin or Ripple. My concern is that a full-blown merger of chains unnecessarily places the entire Bitshares enterprise at risk. If the unthinkable happens and things don't go as planned, it would be hard to unmix two chains and re-establish credibility with respect to the promise not to dilute.

The "secret sauce" plan is not really that issue here.  The reasons for each dilution will have to stand on its own merits.  We do not have the information to be able to vote on the dilution for the "secret sauce" plan at this time.  The greater issue we are confronting is how to fund our marci DAC BTS(X) for the future.  If it can't be funded, resources will go to our sister DACs which will create competition as many of the feature sets in BTS(X) can be duplicated by them and they will have more robust financing.  This will create a market mess.  We will start canalizing ourselves.   

"a dilutable share base will not somehow become a disadvantage relative to other coins with fixed share base". <- This is where you are not understanding the concept of a bitshare.  A bitshare is not a coin. **though bitUSD may be seen as a coin, it is pegged to the dollar not to the value of BTS(X)**  It is a value representation of a profit driven company and thus the task that it must perform is totally different.


My broader point is that credibility and perceptions do matter. Whether Bitshares is perceived to have adhered to the original social consensus of 50% PTS, AGS does matter. I'm not against dilution, by the way. Some form of dilution may be needed to achieve a large network effect before competitors do. But I am very skeptical about whether it's a good idea to hardwire dilution into the main chain via a merger. Using a separate, dilutable chain to fund Bitshares growth seems more sensible because it can help preserve the social consensus and the credibility of BitsharesX. Perhaps more importantly, it can help spread out and compartmentalize risks while preserving flexibility across future contingencies.

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General Discussion / Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« on: October 19, 2014, 08:13:58 pm »
@AmatoB @luckybit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law


We are not talking about a social communications network (to which Metcalfe's Law applies) where the number of bilateral connections determine value. We are talking about achieving a network effect. If Metcalfe's Law were applicable across the board, then why do we have separate Eastern and Western Bitshares marketing teams? Why do we have separate teams working on DNS, Music, and Play?

Achieving a network effect can be done with two separate chains, perhaps in some cases just as well or even better than with one chain.

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General Discussion / Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« on: October 19, 2014, 08:05:50 pm »
@AmatoB @luckybit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law

I think it's important not to overstate the applicability of Metcalfe's Law here. Separate chains for BTSX and for "grow the network effect" (VOTE or other) need not be mutually exclusive in terms of users--in fact, they could be part of the same "network". Besides, the plan as outlined by Stan seems to be to merge only one or two chains that provide critical complementarities. Separate chains could provide these same complementarities and need not be substitutes.

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General Discussion / Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« on: October 19, 2014, 07:51:10 pm »
I think we also need an explanation as to how all of the negative aspects of "one chain to rule them all" no longer apply?

Fully agree.

This is not "one chain to rule them all".   
(Bytemaster merely mentioned that such claims would be incorrectly made.)

Two or three synergistic chains would be merged.
Other unbelievably powerful features would be added to that mix.
The network effect to maintain one bitUSD would be preserved.
And that's where Bytemaster next focuses his innovative energies.

But...
Most of our current DACs would remain independent.

More third party clones would still be tailored for unique markets.
(We'll be working to help launch one of those most of next week.)

Just a few are stronger together.
And if we don't combine them, someone else will.

Ok so we need to know which dacs/features will be merged and could potentially merged in the future.  And why are third party dacs getting help?  If the whole point is to focus on only BTS only then third party dacs shouldn't be taking the teams time at all.  I don't know any companies that say 'next week we'll mostly be working for a different company' :s.

Edit:  Unless the plan is to somehow merge with them too once they've proven themselves?

Edit:  just realized this could sound rude, and I don't mean to, but there aren't other dev teams i know of working on other projects in the middle of launching a startup, that itself consists of multiple dacs!  Isn't a mega-dac with fingers in multiple industries enough for one team?

The protoDAC model is not abandoned.  BTS would become the protoDAC to be honored for 3rd parties who want to leverage our growing network effect and DAC-savvy community.  These are third party specialty DACs you will definitely want to own and providing a little consulting to get them spun up is a small price to pay and consistent will all previous promises.

The proposal provides a stronger, simpler story for all the people we are about to bring into the ecosystem for the first time.  Before we turn on the vacuum cleaner and start filling the funnels, now it the time to get lean, clean, and simple to explain.


Clearly, re-branding BitsharesX as simply "Bitshares (BTS)" would be extremely useful and advantageous. Achieving a large network effect rapidly is also very critical and is the only way to make Bitshares really future-proof.

But can both of these not be accomplished without a full-blown merger? I think the question in some people's minds is, what was wrong with the previous plan that would have given a bigger role to VOTE but would not involve a merger? Why the abrupt pivot away from that plan? Using a separate chain to help achieve network effects would be more conservative in that it would help contain the risks associated with unexpected outcomes.

Contingency planning seems like a good idea in this rapidly-evolving space. What happens if the "secret sauce" plan doesn't quite succeed as expected (after all, Bytemaster conceded that there is a chance it wouldn't work)? A merger with dilution of Bitshares is like "betting the ranch" or going for broke. It assumes that (a) the network strategy will succeed and (b) a dilutable share base will not somehow become a disadvantage relative to other coins with fixed share base, i.e., Bitcoin or Ripple. My concern is that a full-blown merger of chains unnecessarily places the entire Bitshares enterprise at risk. If the unthinkable happens and things don't go as planned, it would be hard to unmix two chains and re-establish credibility with respect to the promise not to dilute.

From that perspective, wouldn't using a separate chain (either VOTE or even a newly-launched chain) to carry out the growth strategy be the safer route? Such a strategy wouldn't preclude re-branding BTSX as BTS. It also preserves the social consensus not to dilute the original Bitshares X chain, helping to preserve credibility. And, unlike the merger approach, the separate-chain approach would still leave many fallback options if the underlying strategy growth/marketing strategy were to fail.

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clarification: the 'announcement' was a PROPOSAL!

nothing has been decided ..
nothing has been implemented
nothing will happen 'soonish'

act accordingly ..

Markets dont think this way. For the people who fear inflation or DAC consolidation the mere open discussion of the idea is enough to send them running. Even if it was retracted those investors will not return.

Which is as it should be.  99% of our investors a year from now haven't even heard of us yet.  :)

I agree, but i think it is absolutely crucial to present a strong message of reassurance to those of us who remain. Short term panic and uncertainty can have tremendous consequences in the long run and i really dont think it is wise for BM to not be present on the forums during this market crisis. I realize that he didnt anticipate such a volatile reaction so he probably hasnt got a full proposal/plan ready yet, but I would really love to see a sort of "official statement to investors" that can reassure everyone that you guys know what you are doing and that anyone who trusts your judgement should have no reason to panic.

Perhaps now would also be a good time to reveal some new info about thw coming marketing push and other information that will help calm and reassure investors.

If, as you claim, the damage has already been done from inflation, what would be the benefit in hastily revealing the "secret sauce" and strategic marketing plans?

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General Discussion / Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« on: October 19, 2014, 07:01:08 pm »
1. Reducing the Complexity of the BitShares Ecosystem

Collapse AGS and PTS into Genesis, and Genesis into BitShares X.
Collapse BitShares X, Y, Z, .. into BitShares X, and simply call it "BitShares."

2. Funding the BitShares Ecosystem

Vote in BitShares for the issuance of new shares going to elected Delegates.
New DACs can be birthed with ICOs, giving samples to Genesis / BTS holders.

3. Marketing the BitShares Ecosystem

Elected Delegates can propose marketing and raise funds for their projects.
Embedded referral program giving new users 10% back on buying bitUSD
Issue new shares to subsidize YIELD for various bitAssets in the first x months.

Questions

What DACs specifically will, or could be, collapsed into BitShares?
--Would there be different wallets, and if not would it not clutter?
--Wouldn't it be difficult to scale, and if so what is the long term plan?

could be done as you wrote it.

- what will be happen with DNS, vote, music etc.? how do we "collapse" them into BTS?

what is confusing me ist the fact, that bytemaster was in the past extreme against "one blockchain" because he believed one blockchain can not support the transaction load. what is about this reason you said Ethereum will fail?

"Collapse" is a poor choice of words.  This would be a merger.  Mergers are done when companies are considered stronger together than apart.  One or two other chains would be merged to share features, the most important of which are common bitAssets and complementary network effect. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.


It's reassuring to know that the merger would selectively target one or two chains and not indiscriminately unify all of the DACS under one umbrella. However, I still have problems with the proposal as it was originally stated. The ending of PTS and AGS is particularly problematic.

1. "Buying out" PTS and AGS for 10% each would be unfair to these early donors (who supported Bitshares during its darkest hour from March till July) since this would not really be consistent with the valuations that Bytemaster expected under the alternative "secret sauce" plan involving VOTE. Bytemaster's stated expectation from a couple of days ago was that the Voting DAC would help provide the network effect for BitsharesX and would have reached the same scale as BitsharesX. Given that expectation, wouldn't a fair buy-out price provide PTS and AGS at least half of what they would've gotten under the Vote allocation, i.e., 15% = 30%/2? Furthermore, this largely ignores the value of future DACs that have not been developed yet but that were part of the claim going to PTS and AGS under the social consensus. Note that I'm not saying that a buyout of PTS and AGS would be good, but rather that the buyout scheme as originally proposed would be neither fair nor consistent.

2. By killing off PTS and AGS, wouldn't Bytemaster's incentives to help develop future DACs be eliminated? Who then would develop DACs like lending, insurance, etc., which themselves have blockbuster potential but would need the right mix of talent and capital to succeed?

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General Discussion / Re: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once
« on: October 19, 2014, 05:09:46 pm »
The damage re: inflation has already been done. There is no turning back, we simply have to implement inflation because that is the only way to have the bitshares superDAC be competitive in the long run. Remember that shares will only ever be issued to fund endevours that are long term profitable and result in a net gain for the shareholders. This will only be positive unless you dont trust the developers and delegates. The only negative coming from implementing inflation is the selloff we are seeing right now, which means the damage has already been done.

No, it's plain to see that the selloff is not just due to the possibility of inflation. This selloff is about bigger issues with the current proposal and perhaps, to some degree, a loss in faith in leadership due to the fact that they are even entertaining such a proposal.

I heard talk of moving some of the dev funding held in BTC into BTSX, in which case the selloff allows more BTSX to be purchased, providing more funding if they do some of that while the price is down.

Also the price has been going down for weeks, it's not all because of this proposal.  There's a lot of uncertainty.  It's people freaking out from not understanding that the proposal makes bitshares much stronger.  If this proposal gets more well fleshed out and goes ahead BTSX (then called BTS) will become invincible. 

This proposal gives me more confidence in the leadership as it demonstrates bytemaster has the guts to take drastic measures to navigate us through the stormy seas of crypto-startup land.

BM has big balls without a doubt. THAT is the kind of leadership any enterprise needs.


Let's be clear. This isn't an issue about guts or cojones. It's an issue about judgment. Does leadership have the holistic vision and depth of judgment to do what's best for Bitshares and the industry overall? Or, are they unduly influenced by a vocal minority here who are heavily vested in bitshares from pre-Feb 28th or who may have other, hidden agendas?

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