Thanks for the info biophil.

Wow, that's a lot of shares.  Did some one say you have to divide by some huge number to get the real number of shares?  If so, why is that?

And should all this kind of stuff be documented somewhere, including when we will be able to access these shares?

Oh, and I am still wondering about interest.  Are there any Bit assets that do or will earn interest?

Brent

I’m loving the stash of shirts I got.

And I get kind of nauseated by complainers and criticizers.  Most of this thread is very hard and painful to read.  Isn’t it better to propose and build consensus around better ideas, and more importantly do something to make them happen, than just try to destroy ideas at least some are doing a great job actually thinking of and working on?

I am a big fan of not just Follow My Vote and Adam Ernest, but in what they are trying to do.  And the plan to try to do a parallel vote sounds absolutely wonderful.  But, my gut wonders if such could work.  It seems to me it might be very hard to get people to change their behavior.  And what are the chances, really, that we can design a narrative, along the lines of what Dan is talking about, and make it go viral?  It seems scary to be dependent on that.

I’m trying to think what I (or any of us) could do to help out.  For example, would it help if I (or anyone in their local communities) tried to contact some of their local news reporters to see if we could get some stories started with this?  After all, the Mormons in Utah LOVE all things Bitcoin.  Patrick M. Byrne, and most of Overstock .com are Mormons.  Did you see how much mileage the Utah couple got that did their honeymoon living off Bitcoin?  You should have seen all the media attention they got in Utah!  If I could get some help, I bet we could help get something started at least in Utah.  Anyone else willing to help with such?  I’m not the best at authoring proposals for articles, but I could do some leg work and some contacting.  I bet there are ideas way better than this for every community all over the world.  How do we organize, and co-operate, so we can collaborate and get it all done?

I get so tired of people just complaining with 20/20 hindsight, and never offering (or attempting to build consensus around) any better ideas.

Ethercoin price seems back to normal.  What a crazy  flash!??

Any theories as to the cause?

Wasn't bytemasters original something like:

Bitshares, the future of banking.

That seems much better than all these, to me.

Oh, and these kinds of surveys are way easier on Canonizer.com, where anyone can add new camps, and camps, or even the original survey question, can be modified after people start voting.

So I'll be able to do this, rather than cold storage, to safely store my millions of BTS?

Who and how will be able to control the voting rights of such shares?

Nice.

Quote from: luckybit on November 12, 2014, 07:10:23 pm

Quote from: donkeypong on November 12, 2014, 07:06:48 pm

It doesn't matter. I don't care what position BitShares is in; when this is ready for prime time, it will go much, much higher.

It matters a lot for marketing. You have to realize that one of the most important aspects of marketing is perceived rank.

If Counterparty overtakes Bitshares today then millions could flow out of Bitshares to Counterparty in a panic. We saw some weird activity with Ripple but that wasn't a legitimate overtake of the Bitshares market cap.

I understand your concern, people do indeed panic buy/sell.  I just make it a habit of not worrying about something I can't directly affect. All we can do is push forward with our plan and do our best to execute as clean as possible.

Nobody that understands the fallacy behind proof of waste is going to be panicking or selling, to buy into any proof of waste.

To YOU luckybit, you're really onto something here!

I completely agree.  Constitutions, congress, primitive voting once every 4 years, and all that just polarize people and don't work, and we can obviously do way better.

I also think algorithmic voting and AI must be a big part of the most successful future methods of governance.  But this isn't everything.  I don't know what side of the 'global warming is a problem' fence you are sitting on, but let's just assume, for a moment, that there really isn't as much "scientific consensus" as some experts claim there is on this issue, and that in fact all the time so many experts are wasting on this, could be channeled to something that would benefit society trillions of times more than all the brain power currently being spent on getting everyone to fear global warming.  Let's say an algorithm/AI is able to see this?  What do you do then?  How do you get all these so called expert consensus scientists to abandon all the effort they are wasting, and get them to put some of their capital towards something of value?  Heck, let's say an AI can see that DPOS is way better than prof of waste?  How do you get all the people investing in mining, to change dirrections towards something that will help the world?

In fact, just the idea of 'voting' seems a completely wrong  paradigm. 200 years ago, wee needed a way to take the power away from the guy at the top, and give more power to the guy at the bottom, so we came up with Voting, once every 4 years, as a step in the right direction.

To me, it isn't about voting, it is all about consensus building.  For example, you have started a spark, here, and multiple people are jumping on board.  The question is, how do you measure how successful you are being, compared to other critically important issues, and also, how do you get something like this to quickly educate and scale to include millions of people?  As other have pointed out, it takes millions of dollars and man years to develop the kind of AIs you are talking about.  So how do we build enough consensus, to commit enough capital. to get it done.  If you think about it, the only hard part, is building enough consensus.  Once you have enough supporters of any idea, no matter how costly, it will just happen.  Building consensus, and getting everyone on board is the only hard part.

Brent Allsop

Hi Agent86,

I guess we are talking two very different things, then.  The primary use case I am pushing towards is how can the experts (i.e. the Bytemaster and others) get the entire dumb herd do something like allow something like dilution to support a marketing push, while losing the fewest possible sheep.  You need to be able to rapidly educate (and get intelligent expert feedback from) the entire herd, and it is also critically important that you be able to measure how effective your communication is, what works, what doesn't, how many people are not yet on board, why (real time, concisely and quantitatively for millions of  people), and what would be required to get them on board.  It all needs to be very flexible, constantly being negotiated and changing, so everyone has visibility into the current state of the consensus (both expert and popular)  All this stuff needs to be much more than just meaningless 'non binding' stuff, so there is certainty and trust.  it is not good for everyone to sell everything when there is so much uncertainly while we work at building consensus, and guessing at how much we may or may not have.

It sounds like the 'non binding' stuff you guys are talking about is very different than this, and really has nothing to do with governance or a "constitution" or anything, which is the topic of this thread?

Brent