Author Topic: What does a fair allocation of Bitshares to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders look like?  (Read 12393 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline blahblah7up

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
    • View Profile
Another thing to consider would be the expectation of the buyer (what they thought they were buying).  BTSX buyers thought they were buying a certain number of BTSX.  That stays the same.  PTS/AGS buyers thought they were buying a percentage.

Really fair would be some sort of moving average payout which maintains that 7% (or whatever is decided to be fair) over time.

Offline bytemaster

What does a fair allocation of Bitshares to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders look like?
« Reply #91 on: October 21, 2014, 10:44:36 pm »
DNs and vote are mostly ags and pts so 10% it is for all practical purposes.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline emski

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1282
    • View Profile
    • http://lnkd.in/nPbhxG
DNs and vote are mostly ags and pts so 10% it is for all practical purposes.
10% and devs were supposed to hold 80%. Now these 80% are into btsx. And there will be further dilution. Which is much different than the promises.

Offline bytemaster

DNs and vote are mostly ags and pts so 10% it is for all practical purposes.
10% and devs were supposed to hold 80%. Now these 80% are into btsx. And there will be further dilution. Which is much different than the promises.

The devs 80% was to be removed... didn't clarify that.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline alphaBar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile

The problem with these debates is that there is a larger interest in BTSX.  So of course they are for their side, which is BTSX.  Therefore we hear their side the most and people start thinking that is the consensus.

Then from there we vote on BTSX chain how to treat PTS. 

I'll go along with whatever, but it becomes obvious that those of us with an interest in PTS are not being represented that well in these discussions.

I really hate to agree with this guy, but whatever +5%

We are the single largest holder of PTS by far.  Giving a large stake to PTS and AGS would be massively in our favor.  So you can believe that PTS perspective was considered.

1) You are "gifting" liquidity to AGS at the expense of all other assets, with literally NO discount. Essentially assigning liquidity a value of ZERO.
2) You are killing the sharedrop incentive by transferring a DAC-agnostic asset like PTS/AGS into a superDAC representing a variety of biased interests. This further devalues PTS/AGS.
3) You are violating the social contract of PTS/AGS.
4) You are making decisions based on mixing and conflating the consensus of one group of asset holders with those of another. In fact, I wouldn't even call it consensus, but that's another point entirely.

And when I bring up these very clear points you say "this hurts me more than it hurts you." Really Dan? Entertain me with a semblance of a response, at least.

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Ander
The devs 80% was to be removed... didn't clarify that.

Oh,

HOLY FUCK THAT IS A BIG DEAL.

It means that our calculation that DNS should be like 75 satoshi right now...should actually be that DNS should be 300 some satoshi right now.



Ok I sold 80k BTSX and bought DNS with it at 150 sat. 

Either I misinterpreted Bytemaster and just lost a couple thousand dollars, or I was the first one to see him post this and just made a couple thousand dollars.

Information is a big deal!



Bytemaster can you please confirm:  The 3% allocation in BTS that is going to DNS holders is only going to those DNS shares that were already issued, and NOT to the billions of dev shares?

That means that we are only looking at about 1 billion DNS shares getting these new BTS, not 5 billion?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 12:25:45 am by Ander »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Ander
Anyone? 

Did DNS tank by 50% today for no reason because we misunderstood the allocation?  Should it actually still be around 300 sat?
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Ander
How many outstanding shares of DNS are there actually, that are going to be converted into 3% of BTS?

Is it the full 5 billion number, or a smaller amount?
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Stan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • You need to think BIGGER, Pinky...
    • View Profile
    • Cryptonomex
  • BitShares: Stan

The problem with these debates is that there is a larger interest in BTSX.  So of course they are for their side, which is BTSX.  Therefore we hear their side the most and people start thinking that is the consensus.

Then from there we vote on BTSX chain how to treat PTS. 

I'll go along with whatever, but it becomes obvious that those of us with an interest in PTS are not being represented that well in these discussions.

I really hate to agree with this guy, but whatever +5%

We are the single largest holder of PTS by far.  Giving a large stake to PTS and AGS would be massively in our favor.  So you can believe that PTS perspective was considered.

1) You are "gifting" liquidity to AGS at the expense of all other assets, with literally NO discount. Essentially assigning liquidity a value of ZERO.
2) You are killing the sharedrop incentive by transferring a DAC-agnostic asset like PTS/AGS into a superDAC representing a variety of biased interests. This further devalues PTS/AGS.
3) You are violating the social contract of PTS/AGS.
4) You are making decisions based on mixing and conflating the consensus of one group of asset holders with those of another. In fact, I wouldn't even call it consensus, but that's another point entirely.

And when I bring up these very clear points you say "this hurts me more than it hurts you." Really Dan? Entertain me with a semblance of a response, at least.

See if this change of perspective makes you feel a bit better...
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10293.msg135034#msg135034

PTS and AGS have spawned a child that surpasses their performance by a light year.  I know the feeling.   :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline alphaBar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile

The problem with these debates is that there is a larger interest in BTSX.  So of course they are for their side, which is BTSX.  Therefore we hear their side the most and people start thinking that is the consensus.

Then from there we vote on BTSX chain how to treat PTS. 

I'll go along with whatever, but it becomes obvious that those of us with an interest in PTS are not being represented that well in these discussions.

I really hate to agree with this guy, but whatever +5%

We are the single largest holder of PTS by far.  Giving a large stake to PTS and AGS would be massively in our favor.  So you can believe that PTS perspective was considered.

1) You are "gifting" liquidity to AGS at the expense of all other assets, with literally NO discount. Essentially assigning liquidity a value of ZERO.
2) You are killing the sharedrop incentive by transferring a DAC-agnostic asset like PTS/AGS into a superDAC representing a variety of biased interests. This further devalues PTS/AGS.
3) You are violating the social contract of PTS/AGS.
4) You are making decisions based on mixing and conflating the consensus of one group of asset holders with those of another. In fact, I wouldn't even call it consensus, but that's another point entirely.

And when I bring up these very clear points you say "this hurts me more than it hurts you." Really Dan? Entertain me with a semblance of a response, at least.

See if this change of perspective makes you feel a bit better...
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10293.msg135034#msg135034

PTS and AGS have spawned a child that surpasses their performance by a light year.  I know the feeling.   :)

Stan - even if you could prove that unifying all these assets into a single Bitshares token was good, it is irrelevant to my point. Your proposed allocation is provably unfair because it creates a large transfer of wealth to AGS holders at the expense of everyone else. All of the sudden these "locked up" AGS will be liquid, introducing massive sell pressure on every other linked asset. Liquidity is worth a HUGE and easily quantifiable premium, and in your proposal that premium is being paid solely by holders of PTS (and BTSX). If you address my arguments directly we can make progress.

Offline voldemort628

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
    • View Profile
Re: What does a fair allocation of Bitshares to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders look like?
« Reply #100 on: October 22, 2014, 07:05:57 am »
So i can claim my stake in the new BTS using my claimed BTSX, AGS (which were already used to claim btsx and dns) , and the newly claimed DNS right?

Offline gaba

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
Re: What does a fair allocation of Bitshares to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders look like?
« Reply #101 on: October 22, 2014, 07:34:03 am »
BM and I bounced the number "~16%" for PTS+AGS (+ small for DNS) around because it uses the value at which BTSX seemed to be stable for a long time ($75m for BTSX), also it is halfway between it's current price and ATH.

Maybe the price is "stable" because you pumped it with our AGS donations? You will be remembered as just another crypto-scammers  with lots of broken promises.

Offline Riverhead

Re: What does a fair allocation of Bitshares to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders look like?
« Reply #102 on: October 22, 2014, 10:17:04 am »
BM and I bounced the number "~16%" for PTS+AGS (+ small for DNS) around because it uses the value at which BTSX seemed to be stable for a long time ($75m for BTSX), also it is halfway between it's current price and ATH.

Maybe the price is "stable" because you pumped it with our AGS donations? You will be remembered as just another crypto-scammers  with lots of broken promises.

They still hold a lot of AGS. There was no pump.

Offline Riverhead

Re: What does a fair allocation of Bitshares to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders look like?
« Reply #103 on: October 22, 2014, 10:26:03 am »
Anyone? 

Did DNS tank by 50% today for no reason because we misunderstood the allocation?  Should it actually still be around 300 sat?

Good question. Man, this is going to be an interesting chapter when someone makes a PBS special about the birth of BTS :).