Author Topic: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)  (Read 13830 times)

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Offline davidpbrown

Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2014, 07:32:27 pm »
So, I've changed my mind and very much in support of merger now. Given what I've seen today, I am very encouraged +5% +5% +5% Well done to all core staff for their arguing the case and the actions taken. :D
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Offline onceuponatime

Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2014, 07:43:30 pm »
So, I've changed my mind and very much in support of merger now. Given what I've seen today, I am very encouraged +5% +5% +5% Well done to all core staff for their arguing the case and the actions taken. :D

Have you removed and re-submitted your vote in this poll?

Offline spoonman

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #92 on: October 22, 2014, 07:57:03 pm »
I think things are better, but I have a hard time with the 2 year lock in. I'm ok with AGS being locked in for 2 years, but DNS and PTS shouldn't be locked in for that long. Maybe invested 10% every month or something like that.

Offline davidpbrown

Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #93 on: October 22, 2014, 08:40:25 pm »
Have you removed and re-submitted your vote in this poll?

Yes.

I was unsure earlier about the reasoning but it's clear that it'll make for a stronger BitShares.. and I also saw some talk of ambitions inc Turing complete capability which was new! :D
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Offline infovortice2013

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #94 on: October 22, 2014, 11:57:21 pm »
why 2 year lock in over bts?

total bts produced ? 500.000.000?

what transfer rate will be applied for pts -btsx- vote- dns  (note is included?)

bitshares music go in pack of bts?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 06:56:04 pm by infovortice2013 »
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Offline Brent.Allsop

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2014, 03:17:07 pm »
OK, we've thrown up a first stab at a start of a consensus building survey topic on this bitshares merger proposal at Canonizer.com titled: " BTS Dilution / Merger Survey":

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/160

I've started by splitting the general, "should BtsX ever be diluted" at the most important level, as that seems to be the most important and fundamental issue of disagreement.  We plan to create a sub camp of the "Rarely Delute" camp representing the state of the art of the leading consensus camp of exactly what, how, and when... it will be done.  Now we need someone to provide a concise description of their view of the state of the art of what is being or what should be proposed so we can start building and tracking how much consensus, we can achieve for this and all competing proposals.

As always, this is just the first draft stab at a consensus building survey topic.  Anything can change at any time by anyone.  Hopefully people will see a better way of doing things and help make the improvements in a wiki way.  Lots of small contributions and people joining camps are what will make this great and amplify everyone's wisdom on what is the best thing to do.  If a camp representing what you believe is already there, sign and join it to help it along.  If your exact view isn't yet included, please help to get that view started, so others can start building expert consensus around the best ideas.



« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 03:19:06 pm by Brent.Allsop »

Offline donkeypong

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2014, 04:28:34 pm »
OK, we've thrown up a first stab at a start of a consensus building survey topic on this bitshares merger proposal at Canonizer.com titled: " BTS Dilution / Merger Survey":

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/160

I've started by splitting the general, "should BtsX ever be diluted" at the most important level, as that seems to be the most important and fundamental issue of disagreement.  We plan to create a sub camp of the "Rarely Delute" camp representing the state of the art of the leading consensus camp of exactly what, how, and when... it will be done.  Now we need someone to provide a concise description of their view of the state of the art of what is being or what should be proposed so we can start building and tracking how much consensus, we can achieve for this and all competing proposals.

As always, this is just the first draft stab at a consensus building survey topic.  Anything can change at any time by anyone.  Hopefully people will see a better way of doing things and help make the improvements in a wiki way.  Lots of small contributions and people joining camps are what will make this great and amplify everyone's wisdom on what is the best thing to do.  If a camp representing what you believe is already there, sign and join it to help it along.  If your exact view isn't yet included, please help to get that view started, so others can start building expert consensus around the best ideas.

With all due respect, I'm not sure all forum members would be comfortable signing up for an account on your site first, not fully understanding the Mormon Transhumanist Association. With polls, etc., people like to remain anonymous. If you want wider participation, you might want to give assurances that people are remaining anonymous and aren't joining some list.

Offline Thom

Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2014, 04:30:10 pm »
OK, we've thrown up a first stab at a start of a consensus building survey topic on this bitshares merger proposal at Canonizer.com titled: " BTS Dilution / Merger Survey":

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/160

I've started by splitting the general, "should BtsX ever be diluted" at the most important level, as that seems to be the most important and fundamental issue of disagreement.  We plan to create a sub camp of the "Rarely Delute" camp representing the state of the art of the leading consensus camp of exactly what, how, and when... it will be done.  Now we need someone to provide a concise description of their view of the state of the art of what is being or what should be proposed so we can start building and tracking how much consensus, we can achieve for this and all competing proposals.

As always, this is just the first draft stab at a consensus building survey topic.  Anything can change at any time by anyone.  Hopefully people will see a better way of doing things and help make the improvements in a wiki way.  Lots of small contributions and people joining camps are what will make this great and amplify everyone's wisdom on what is the best thing to do.  If a camp representing what you believe is already there, sign and join it to help it along.  If your exact view isn't yet included, please help to get that view started, so others can start building expert consensus around the best ideas.

With all due respect, I'm not sure all forum members would be comfortable signing up for an account on your site first, not fully understanding the Mormon Transhumanist Association. With polls, etc., people like to remain anonymous. If you want wider participation, you might want to give assurances that people are remaining anonymous and aren't joining some list.
+5%
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Offline Brent.Allsop

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2014, 07:04:18 pm »

Hi Thom and donkeypong,

Thanks for pointing out this important issue.  One must first realize that this is JUST a prototype system that has been developed by open source volunteers, that is all.  There are lots of things it needs besides just this.  It needs to be integrated into the Bitshares ID system, so you can login with that, and so that can validate uniqueness, and so we can build canonizer algorithms based on how many shares one holds, we need at least some type of login system to help with that problem till we have that ability, and so on.  Also, once you do create a log in, you can "support" and/or contribute to a camp, anonymously by creating an anonymous ID.

Rest assured that if anyone does create an account, we will not use your information for anything other than to identify you in the canonizer.com prototype system for purposes of preventing people from creating many identities to cheat the system and so on.

Again, this is only a crude early prototype that still needs lots of work.  But there is enough there to start building consensus.  Everything else out there now, and what we are doing in the forums just wastes everyone's time, destroys and fractures consensus.  I'd bet the chaos going on in the forums right now is what is causing the BitsharesX price to crash.  If we had some concise descriptions of the state of the art of the leading camps everyone could get easy access to, and a quantitative measure of how much consensus there was, who this consensus was, without all this noise and chaos nobody can fallow, the price of BTSX will surely go through the roof.  All crypto currency systems are running into these kinds of development problems, and the first comunity to solve this scalability problem will easily win this battle to rule the world.  The community that can best build consensus the fasted and most intelligently on a large scale will win.

So it will take some effort, and this kind of pain, to get things started, and eventually we will get things resolved and fully developed.  Things will speed up if people help with the development.  For example, maybe you or anyone would care to add some disclaimers about we will not use anyone e-mail for anything, to the open source system to alleviate some of the fears?  Or at least make some specific proposals of what text to put where, so everyone is happy?

Brent Allsop

Offline fuzzy

Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2014, 09:56:08 pm »
OK, we've thrown up a first stab at a start of a consensus building survey topic on this bitshares merger proposal at Canonizer.com titled: " BTS Dilution / Merger Survey":

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/160

I've started by splitting the general, "should BtsX ever be diluted" at the most important level, as that seems to be the most important and fundamental issue of disagreement.  We plan to create a sub camp of the "Rarely Delute" camp representing the state of the art of the leading consensus camp of exactly what, how, and when... it will be done.  Now we need someone to provide a concise description of their view of the state of the art of what is being or what should be proposed so we can start building and tracking how much consensus, we can achieve for this and all competing proposals.

As always, this is just the first draft stab at a consensus building survey topic.  Anything can change at any time by anyone.  Hopefully people will see a better way of doing things and help make the improvements in a wiki way.  Lots of small contributions and people joining camps are what will make this great and amplify everyone's wisdom on what is the best thing to do.  If a camp representing what you believe is already there, sign and join it to help it along.  If your exact view isn't yet included, please help to get that view started, so others can start building expert consensus around the best ideas.

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Offline Thom

Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2014, 10:13:08 pm »
Brent -

First I want to thank you for your efforts to assist this community with achieving consensus.

It's serendipity I'm reading this again while receiving a phone call on a very similar problem about a local group and their apathy to use a custom website tailored to the group vs. facebook.

I'm not a fan of having my identity strewn across zillions of websites for easy pickens for someone to build a profile of my habits, tastes and personality. That is one issue.

I took a quick look at the link you provided but frankly I don't get a flavor of how it will help to build consensus. Not saying it can't or won't, but I'd like to understand the methodologies the tool uses to achieve that. My apathy towards it is due to 1) lack of knowledge about the tool and 2) not willing to be the first to put myself out there when I don't see others with MUCH more at stake than I doing so. It doesn't build my confidence in the tool's utility, and frankly there isn't any until the major stakeholders state their positions and rationale there.

That's how I see it anyway. Perhaps you might try to PM some of the more vocal people here and see if you could persuade them to post their positions and get things rolling, or you yourself could distill some of the posts here and setup positions people could rally behind or to be for or against. Seems like a catalyst of some sort is required to get thinks moving.

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Offline donkeypong

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2014, 10:44:36 pm »
It's going to be really important to have a good model for reaching decisions. There will be a lot of group decisions to make on delegates' propositions, etc., as this thing goes forward. The forum is good for discussion, but perhaps not the ideal place for decision-making.

Thanks, Brent, for providing your assurances. I just think we're dealing with a particularly suspicious audience in cryptos. If you put that tool on an independent website that was not religiously affiliated, and if you did not require as much identity information for folks to register, you probably would get a lot more people participating. Thanks for your work on this.

Offline skywalker861

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2014, 06:33:59 am »
ridiculous idea!

Offline dna_gym

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2014, 08:01:25 am »
Considering the momentum towards the merger, I cannot resist it. And I think the reasoning behind the merger looks rational.
Though I feel like Bitshares is going to a dangerous path. If that merger idea (and dilution) works it's great.
BM is pioneering new ground so there is always a risk. I hope a good outcome.  :)

Offline neo1344

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Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« Reply #104 on: October 27, 2014, 04:34:01 am »
2 years l can not touch my money,, hey my name s john smith invest your money on me for two years will double it for u. fishyyy