Author Topic: Proposed Allocation for Merger  (Read 43245 times)

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Offline Pheonike

Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2014, 06:02:57 pm »


When you buy Google stock are you buying Search, Android, Driveless Cars, Chrome? No you buying it all.
When you buy Apple Stock are you buying Macs,iPhones,iTunes, iWatch? No you are buying it the all.

You are buying into the ecosystem, not an individual product.

Offline gamey

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2014, 06:03:55 pm »
A tip to anyone with PTS or DNS on exchanges (bt38 or bter):  Based on this proposed allocation, and prices right now (BTSX 6100 sat, PTS 6600 sat, DNS 200 sat), you should sell your PTS and DNS, and buy BTSX. 

I did this already.  You'll get slightly more shares in the new BTS if you do this fast before prices adjust.

Obviously, if DNS and PTS fall and BTSX rises, youll need to do some math to see if this is still the case.

Keep in mind that the "so-called" market cap on DNS and PTS is a very thin market and you are being moved to a much deeper market.  Someone looking to sell 1% of PTS would push down the price much further and thus get much less than the market cap suggests... moving them into BTSX and selling the same amount would move the price less.

It is complicated, and I don't think that anything is going to be fair to everyone.

People aren't going to keep much on crypto-exchanges to have a lot of liquidity because people with money are smart enough to not do it.

"so-called"?   If it wasn't true, why the hell is PTS so stable in price ?   You are assuming that someone is forced to sell everything at once.  I'm not sure how you measure volatility because I am not trained in such matters, but it seems to me that if what you said is true the price would be a lot more volatile.  PTS seems fairly steady, which leads me to believe there is a real market there. 
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline Ander

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2014, 06:04:00 pm »
Someone sold 16 BTC worth of DNS on Bter and crashed the price 50%...

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Offline bytemaster

Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2014, 06:06:27 pm »
Someone sold 16 BTC worth of DNS on Bter and crashed the price 50%...

Exactly... $10,000 worth of liquidity is all that was there for DNS...
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Offline gamey

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2014, 06:10:46 pm »


You guys....  I need to log-off this train wreck for the day.

In the end I will never be too pissed because BTSX definitely gains from this and I have a large stake in BTS. However that was never my interest and I'm not sure we couldn't have just added dilution to BTSX and went from there unchanged.

I hope one guy isn't sitting somewhere whispering ideas into someone's ear and then they end up becoming self-fulfilling due to the way this forum/social hierarchy works.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2014, 06:11:27 pm »
Well, if irational panic selling continue to drop the price, I'll be happy to buy and get a discount on BTS (taking into account I don't mind the vesting period)

Exactly!
No need for the change in the vesting period... Those who want liquidity will sell out of PTS/DNS and buy perfectly liquid BTSX before the snapshot!
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2014, 06:11:46 pm »
Mumble anyone? We are actively chatting about these things...right now.
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Offline CryptoPrometheus

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2014, 06:14:16 pm »
Mumble anyone? We are actively chatting about these things...right now.

Fuzz, is there a link to listen to the mumble without having to install mumble client?
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Offline MrJeans

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2014, 06:14:37 pm »
I would just like to add my 2c that I do not support the merger in its current form.

I prefer the concept of many DACs competing

The one chain to rule them all makes me cringe (and is why I would not buy into etherium)

We loose the AGS and PTS social contract which was very attractive to me

If people need to buy shares in a random company (BitsharesX) just to get exposure to possible future DACs such as MUSIC, that would not make sense

Single point of failure

Why should a transaction for a FOREX trader be effected by someone who wants to buy the latest SnoopDogg single[/li][/list]

I do however see the value in a merger, I just dont like the downsides and hope there is a way around it

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2014, 06:15:36 pm »
Well, if irational panic selling continue to drop the price, I'll be happy to buy and get a discount on BTS (taking into account I don't mind the vesting period)

If I understand correctly, even after 50% drop, you will still get more BTS by selling DNS for BTSX.

Offline CryptoPrometheus

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Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2014, 06:18:57 pm »
    Why should a transaction for a FOREX trader be effected by someone who wants to buy the latest SnoopDogg single[/li][/list]

    I agree, but won't this problem be alleviated once bit assets can be used to short bts(x), and also to short each other?
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    Offline biophil

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    Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
    « Reply #56 on: October 21, 2014, 06:21:37 pm »
    The above allocation grants this many BTS to each of the stakeholder DACs:

    99 BTS per PTS
    87.5 BTS per AGS
    0.015 BTS per DNS (i.e.: sell now before your stake is worthless)

    7%*2.5Bil/1.648Mil  is ~ 106 per PTS

    Questions: Vesting period is for who? PTS/AGS/DNS/VOTE? Or just PTS/AGS? Or... other?

    Shentist also mentioned this - why the incredibly low valuation for DNS? Anybody who's smart should go sell all their DNS right now because if this proposal goes through, the price of DNS will crash by almost two-thirds, or much more than that if DNS is included in the vesting thing.

    Edit: People can argue about the length of the vesting period; but like Ander said, 2 years is forever in crypto. A 2-year period will utterly crush the price of PTS because people can trade them for BTSX and get liquidity, and currently BTSX and PTS give equal amounts of BTS for the value. I'd expect a 50% drop in PTS price would be mild.

    0.00006*106 ~ 0.00636
     so no 50% drop expected for PTS ,IMHO.

    The drop would be because of liquidity premium for BTSX versus PTS. Pre Feb 28 snapshot, PTS (the liquid one) had something like a 3x liquidity premium over AGS. Never underestimate the market value of liquidity...
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    Offline Ander

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    Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
    « Reply #57 on: October 21, 2014, 06:22:26 pm »
    Well, if irational panic selling continue to drop the price, I'll be happy to buy and get a discount on BTS (taking into account I don't mind the vesting period)

    If I understand correctly, even after 50% drop, you will still get more BTS by selling DNS for BTSX.

    I calculate that DNS needs to be about 75 satoshis.  (Unless BTSX goes up).

    PTS needs to be about 5000-5500 satoshis. 

    If BTSX goes up these numbers go up the same percentage.
    « Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 06:25:59 pm by Ander »
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    Offline Stan

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    Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
    « Reply #58 on: October 21, 2014, 06:26:16 pm »
    I still am not convinced why we have the merge DAC's into one. this seems not preferable.

    ... as it stands I don't accept merging DAC's..

    There are lots of benefits and solved problems with the proposal, but none of them are necessary to win the argument for merger.

    The biggest argument is that, without merging PTS and AGS, Bytemaster will be obligated to keep making new competing DACs forever.  He will be obligated to make the best new DACs he knows how.  And he keeps learning how to make better DACs.  They will need most of the features of BTSX so they will compete to have the best bitUSD.  This would not be good for BTSX or any but the newest, biggest, bestest DAC he would be working on.

    Except there wouldn't be a perpetual series of self-hobbled DACS because the first new one he would do would be a full-up BTS superDAC that is not constrained from competing aggressively.  (Because this is the best new DAC he knows how to do so far.)  This would simply kill BTSX because everyone would want to sell its shares to buy into BTS.

    If he did start dividing up the features "fairly" among many small DACs, it would just open the door to outside competition to put them all back together into a BTS superDAC equivalent.

    So there really is no choice. 
    « Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 06:40:02 pm by Stan »
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    Offline biophil

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    Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
    « Reply #59 on: October 21, 2014, 06:27:02 pm »
    Well, if irational panic selling continue to drop the price, I'll be happy to buy and get a discount on BTS (taking into account I don't mind the vesting period)

    If I understand correctly, even after 50% drop, you will still get more BTS by selling DNS for BTSX.

    I calculate that DNS needs to be about 75 satoshis.  (Unless BTSX goes up).

    I'm getting that 95 would do it (BTSX price changing fast, though).

    In other words, the selling is not irrational; it is not a panic; it is a market movement I told you to expect earlier in this thread :)
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