Rand Paul Coin wants to use DPoS

[bytemaster]

There are a dozen ways to calculate worth.  When I said "worth 5 BTS" I meant that an internal market did price discovery in BTS and it was at 5.  So if the value of BTS relative to BTC changes (which is currently the only way to realize profits in this system) then that changes the value/worth of the asset. 

I believe if the asset isn't pegged to an external measure than it's really just another name for BTS and will rise and fall with it. The only thing that makes an asset have representative value is if there is some incentive for the market to come to a consensus around a peg. Even if the primary market is bitUSD:UIA the UIA would still need some external peg to give it a value of X USD.

User Issued Assets have value proportional to the credit worthiness of the issuer and whether or not the BTS chain is functioning enough to allow the assets to transfer owners.   IE: as long as delegates are producing blocks, if I issued DanUSD as a user issued asset with 0 collateral then it would trade based upon the markets opinion on whether or not I would redeem those DanUSD for real USD.   BTS value is not a factor.

[Riverhead]

There are a dozen ways to calculate worth.  When I said "worth 5 BTS" I meant that an internal market did price discovery in BTS and it was at 5.  So if the value of BTS relative to BTC changes (which is currently the only way to realize profits in this system) then that changes the value/worth of the asset. 

I believe if the asset isn't pegged to an external measure than it's really just another name for BTS and will rise and fall with it. The only thing that makes an asset have representative value is if there is some incentive for the market to come to a consensus around a peg. Even if the primary market is bitUSD:UIA the UIA would still need some external peg to give it a value of X USD.

[gamey]

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

Your THING isn't worth 5 BTS. You're THING is worth whatever it's worth in the real world ($5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas). The number of BTS you need to get $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas varies. When you bought THING you bought it for 100 BTS. The value of BTS goes to the moon so now when you want to exchange your THING for $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas you sell it on the internal exchange for 0.01 BTS ~= $5USD (at that time).

There are a dozen ways to calculate worth.  When I said "worth 5 BTS" I meant that an internal market did price discovery in BTS and it was at 5.  So if the value of BTS relative to BTC changes (which is currently the only way to realize profits in this system) then that changes the value/worth of the asset. 

Now I understand the typical UIA will likely have bitUSD:UIA as dominant market.  Thats the explanation I was looking for and explains the first statement of Dan etc.

[Riverhead]

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

Your THING isn't worth 5 BTS. You're THING is worth whatever it's worth in the real world ($5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas). The number of BTS you need to get $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas varies. When you bought THING you bought it for 100 BTS. The value of BTS goes to the moon so now when you want to exchange your THING for $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas you sell it on the internal exchange for 0.01 BTS ~= $5USD (at that time).

[zerosum]

Internal user issued assets have value fully independent of BTS value... they generally represent a contract or property right or some form of security.

BitAssets depend upon BTS value.

bitAssets value depend on BTS having  value (some value). Not what that value is. 1 bitUSD should be worth about 1 $ no matter if BTS is worth $0.01 or $10, as long as it is worth something.

[gamey]

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

It depends! Does THING have a value relative to something external to BTS? Suppose when you issued THING you promised to make it convertible to some real-world item: let's say you promise to give people a golf ball if they send you a share of THING. Then the price of THING is determined by the value of a golf ball, so if the price of BTS changes, the price of THING denominated in BTS will change accordingly. See?

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

And this is yet a different answer. This makes sense if it is just a token that uses external exchanges.

[biophil]

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

It depends! Does THING have a value relative to something external to BTS? Suppose when you issued THING you promised to make it convertible to some real-world item: let's say you promise to give people a golf ball if they send you a share of THING. Then the price of THING is determined by the value of a golf ball, so if the price of BTS changes, the price of THING denominated in BTS will change accordingly. See?

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

[gamey]

You've missed the whole point of bitAssets. Why is BitShares a better asset exchange, because the market isn't going to be Rand Paul Coin vs BTS (or NXT) the market is Rand Paul Coin vs bitUSD.  If there is enough volume in bitUSD the peg will hold better and the price of the asset should not be subject to the volatility of BTS.

I didn't realize that all user-defined assets will be denoted in a bitAssets, but you're just as clueless as me if you think thats the "whole point" of bitAssets.  Someone else in this thread said user defined assets are just like NXT. Well in the NXT wallet there is a market that allows assets to be traded in NXT. So the asset's value is tied into NXT. 

It seems that a user-defined asset can be paired on any market. So the value of the asset will be dependent on the markets it is paired with.  I understand now.  The assumption is that the dominant market will be a bitUSD pair or a different bitAsset. That makes sense. I'm not sure I come to the same conclusions as you guys, because the dominant market could also be BTS.

edit - Or is a BTS:UIA not even allowed ?

[clout]

You've missed the whole point of bitAssets. Why is BitShares a better asset exchange, because the market isn't going to be Rand Paul Coin vs BTS (or NXT) the market is Rand Paul Coin vs bitUSD.  If there is enough volume in bitUSD the peg will hold better and the price of the asset should not be subject to the volatility of BTS.

[CLains]

You have some fraction of the thing. The market cap of the thing is 0 to begin with, whatever fraction you have. Market cap is what a fraction is worth multiplied by the total supply.

[gamey]

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

[biophil]

NXT assets are different though, because they have an internal market.

No, UIA are the same in BTS as Nxt assets. There are a couple mechanical differences that I know of:

1) You can issue new shares in a UIA; a Nxt asset is set in stone forever
2) You can trade any UIA with any UIA (this is how Counterparty works as well); on Nxt you can only trade an asset with Nxt.

[sudo]

how to protect the private key(ags pts) safe?

[xeroc]

Nope .. there are no price feeds for userissued assets ..
The are traded freely within the market .. though th GUI soesnt show them atm ... they are relly the same as in NXT and counterparty

And that is a market internal to BTS and denoted in BTS ?

afaik you can trade UIA against any other asset .. but at least against BTS ..

[gamey]

Nope .. there are no price feeds for userissued assets ..
The are traded freely within the market .. though th GUI soesnt show them atm ... they are relly the same as in NXT and counterparty

And that is a market internal to BTS and denoted in BTS ?